The Bible's been tampered with!!!

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posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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I believe I may have found proof that the Bible has been tampered with from or before the translation into "Latin Vulgate" by good ol' King James back in the day.

Romans 13:1-6, pops up out of nowhere and contradicts everything that the apostles did and even Jesus did.
Here are the verses:


Romans 13:1-6 (KJV)

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.



Romans 13:1-6 (YLT)

1Let every soul to the higher authorities be subject, for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God,

2so that he who is setting himself against the authority, against God's ordinance hath resisted; and those resisting, to themselves shall receive judgment.

3For those ruling are not a terror to the good works, but to the evil; and dost thou wish not to be afraid of the authority? that which is good be doing, and thou shalt have praise from it,

4for of God it is a ministrant to thee for good; and if that which is evil thou mayest do, be fearing, for not in vain doth it bear the sword; for of God it is a ministrant, an avenger for wrath to him who is doing that which is evil.

5Wherefore it is necessary to be subject, not only because of the wrath, but also because of the conscience,

6for because of this also pay ye tribute; for servants of God they are, on this very thing attending continually;


As you can see there is obviously a logical contradiction here, one that no man would ever make, especially Paul.
This was written by Paul when he was in JAIL! Why? Because he preached the gospel when he was told not to, so therefore he was going agianst what he was saying, this just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
This also contradicts what every one of the apostles and even Jesus did!
Also, this approves every atrocity committed by every government that ever existed! That means Hitler, Hussien, Osama, Bush, every single one of these villains where put into power by God!

Also, this one part of the verse is the most baffling of ALL!!! "...For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil...", that's not true at all!

There will be some pretty naive Christians on here who will tell me that if mans law contradicts God's law then we shouldn't follow it, all I have to say is PROVE IT! SHOW ME A FREAKIN' VERSE!!!
It says nothing like that! This verse was put in the Bible by TPTB (ultimately Satan) to control the mindless Christians that believe that they can pay there way to Heaven!
Also to those Christians that naively believe that "God wouldn't allow His word to be tampered with" then how the heck do you explain why there are paragraph left out between KJV and NIV!?!?!
Not to mention that man is the one printing the Bible, not God, man is the one translating and leaving out and adding things to the Bible, not God.
I believe in the Bible, but when I see things that make no sense and seem to be added later, or left out, then I call into question those things.
I also don't subscribe to the bs idea of "either believe al of it or none of it", people do bad things, that includes twisting the scriptures to what they want them to be!

So to me, it's pretty obvious, the Illuminati put this in the Bible (I know, it sounds pretty far out there) simply to manipulate people into believeing that Government is God, that the government is created by God to do His bidding.
Guess what, there will be a One World Government, the Bible calls it the Beast, you will be forced to serve and worship that government, will your precious Romans 13 apply then? I hope not, Romans 13:1-6 will never apply in my life because it is a LIE!!!

-Lahara




posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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Paul became the perfect mouthpiece to further whatever official Church doctrines needed to have "apostolic authority." Modern scholarship has proven that the Pastoral epistles are nothing but wholesale forgeries written at a much later date.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Eleleth
Paul became the perfect mouthpiece to further whatever official Church doctrines needed to have "apostolic authority." Modern scholarship has proven that the Pastoral epistles are nothing but wholesale forgeries written at a much later date.


Well, I don't know about that (honestly I don't), but I do know that I can agree with everything in Romans except that one bit, simply because it's ovious that it's not true.

-Lahara



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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If this is a topic that you find interesting I would strongly recommend to you a book called
Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why by Bart D. Ehrman .



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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As it has always been,
it shall always be.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by TheRandom1
Well, I don't know about that (honestly I don't), but I do know that I can agree with everything in Romans except that one bit, simply because it's ovious that it's not true.

-Lahara

Yes, I wonder, how do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile their beliefs with that verse?



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by TheRandom1
 


You're reading into it things not meant to be read into... Shall we see what the Biblical Scholars say about these verses?

Poole:


Let every soul; i.e. every person. In the first verse of the foregoing chapter the body was put for the whole man; here, the soul; and when he says every person, it is plain that ecclesiastical persons are not exempted. Be subject: he doth not say, be obedient, but be subject; which is a general word, (as some have noted), comprehending all other duties and services. This subjection must be limited only to lawful things; otherwise, we must answer as they did, #Ac 4:19: or as Polycarpus did; when he was required to blaspheme Christ, and swear by the fortune of Caesar, he peremptorily refused, and said: We are taught to give honour to princes and potentates, but such honour as is not contrary to true religion. Unto the higher powers: though he speaks of things, he means persons; and he calls them rulers in #Ro 13:3, whom he calls powers in this verse. So in #Lu 12:11, Christ tells his disciples, they should be brought before magistrates and powers; it is the same word, and it is plain he means persons in power. Chrysostom notes, that he rather speaks of our subjection to powers, than persons in power; because, that howsoever their power be abused, their authority must be acknowledged and obeyed. He speaks of powers, in the plural number, because there are divers sorts and kinds thereof, as monarchy, aristocracy, democracy: under which soever of these we live, we must be subject thereunto. By higher powers, he means the supreme powers; so the word is rendered, #1Pe 2:13. To them, and to those that are authorized by them, we must submit, for that is all one as if we did it to themselves, #1Ti 2:2 1Pe 2:14. There are other inferior powers, which are also of God, as parents, masters, &c.; but of these he doth not speak in this place. For there is no power but of God: this is a reason of the foregoing injunction: q.d. That which hath God for its author, is to be acknowledged and submitted to; but magistracy hath God for its author: ergo. He speaketh not here of the person, nor of the abuse, nor of the manner of getting into power, but of the thing itself, viz. magistracy and authority: and he says, it is of God; he instituted the office, and he appointeth or permitteth the person that executes it. This clause is attested and illustrated by #Pr 8:15 Da 4:32 Joh 19:11. The powers that be are ordained of God: this passage is an exemplification of the former. Erasmus thinks it was inserted by some interpreter, by way of explanation; but it is found in all ancient copies, therefore that conceit of his is without foundation. The emphasis of this sentence seems to lie in the word ordained; power and civil authority is not simply from God, as all other things are, but it is ordained by him. This word (as one observes) implieth two things; invention, and ratification. God invented and devised this order, that some should rule, and others obey; and he maintaineth and upholdeth it.


Mathew Henry:



#1-7 The grace of the gospel teaches us submission and quiet, where pride and the carnal mind only see causes for murmuring and discontent. Whatever the persons in authority over us themselves may be, yet the just power they have, must be submitted to and obeyed. In the general course of human affairs, rulers are not a terror to honest, quiet, and good subjects, but to evil-doers. Such is the power of sin and corruption, that many will be kept back from crimes only by the fear of punishment. Thou hast the benefit of the government, therefore do what thou canst to preserve it, and nothing to disturb it. This directs private persons to behave quietly and peaceably where God has set them, #1Ti 2:1,2. Christians must not use any trick or fraud. All smuggling, dealing in contraband goods, withholding or evading duties, is rebellion against the express command of God. Thus honest neighbours are robbed, who will have to pay the more; and the crimes of smugglers, and others who join with them, are abetted. It is painful that some professors of the gospel should countenance such dishonest practices. The lesson here taught it becomes all Christians to learn and practise, that the godly in the land will always be found the quiet and the peaceable in the land, whatever others are.


Barnes:



Ver. 1. Let every soul. Every person. In the first seven verses of this chapter, the apostle discusses the subject of the duty which Christians owe to civil government; a subject which is extremely important, and at the same time exceedingly difficult. There is no doubt that he had express reference to the peculiar situation of the Christians at Rome; but the subject was of so much importance that he gives it a general bearing, and states the great principles on which all Christians are to act. The circumstances which made this discussion proper and important were the following: 1. The Christian religion was designed to extend throughout the world. Yet it contemplated the rearing of a kingdom amid other kingdoms, an empire amid other empires. Christians professed supreme allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ; he was their Lawgiver, their Sovereign, their Judge. It became, therefore, a question of great importance and difficulty, what kind of allegiance they were to render to earthly magistrates. 2. The kingdoms of the world were then pagan Kingdoms. The laws were made by pagans, and were adapted to the prevalence of heathenism. Those kingdoms had been generally founded in conquest, and blood, and oppression. Many Of the monarchs were blood-stained warriors; were unprincipled men; and were polluted in their private, and oppressive in their public character. Whether Christians were to acknowledge the laws of such kingdoms, and of such men, was a serious question, and one which could not but occur very early. It would occur also very soon, in circumstances that would be very affecting and trying. Soon the hands of these magistrates were to be raised against Christians in the fiery scenes of persecution; and the duty and extent of submission to them became a matter of very serious inquiry. 3. Many of the early Christians were composed of Jewish converts. Yet the Jews had long been under Roman oppression, and had borne the foreign yoke with great uneasiness. The whole heathen magistracy they regarded as founded in a system of idolatry; as opposed to God and his kingdom; and as abomination in his sight. With these feelings they had become christians; and it was natural that their former sentiments should exert an influence on them after their conversion. How far they should submit, if at all, to heathen magistrates, was a question of deep interest; and there was danger that the Jewish converts might prove to be disorderly and rebellious citizens of the empire. 4. Nor was the case much different with the Gentile converts. They would naturally look with abhorrence on the system of idolatry which they had just forsaken. They would regard all as opposed to God. They would denounce the religion of the pagans as abomination; and as that religion was interwoven with the civil institutions, there was danger also that they might denounce the government altogether, and be regarded as opposed to the laws of the land. 5. There were cases where it was right to resist the laws. This the Christian religion clearly taught; and, in cases like these, it was indispensable for Christians to take a stand. When the laws interfered with the rights of conscience; when they commanded the worship of idols, or any moral wrong, then it was their duty to refuse submission. Yet, in what cases this was to be done, where the line was to be drawn, was a question of deep importance, and one which was not easily settled. It is quite probable, however, that the main danger was, that the early Christians would err in refusing submission, even when it was proper, rather than in undue conformity to idolatrous rites and ceremonies. 6. In the changes which were to occur in human governments, it would be an inquiry of deep interest, what part Christians should take, and what submission they should yield to the various laws which might spring up among the nations. The principles on which Christians should act are settled in this chapter. Be subject. Submit. The word denotes that kind of submission which soldiers render to their officers. It implies subordination; a willingness to occupy our proper place, to yield to the authority of those over us. The word used here does not designate the extent of the submission, but merely enjoins it in general. The general principle will be seen to be, that we are to obey in all things which are not contrary to the law of God. The higher powers. The magistracy; the supreme government. It undoubtedly here refers to the Roman magistracy, and has relation not so much to the rulers as to the supreme authority which was established as the constitution of government. Comp. #Mt 10:1 Mt 28:18. For. The apostle gives a reason why Christians should be subject; and that reason is, that magistrates have received their appointment from God. As Christians, therefore, are to be subject to God, so they are to honour God by honouring the arrangement which he has instituted for the government of mankind. Doubtless, he here intends also to repress the vain curiosity and agitation with which men are prone to inquire into the titles of their rulers; to guard them from the agitations and conflicts of party, and of contentions to establish a favourite on the throne. It might be, that those in power had not a proper title to their office; that they had secured it, not according to justice, but by oppression; but into that question Christians were not to enter. The government was established, and they were not to seek to overturn it. No power. No office; no magistracy; no civil rule. But of God. By God’s permission, or appointment; by the arrangements of his providence, by which those in office had obtained their power. God often claims and asserts that He sets up one, and puts down another, #Ps 75:7 Da 2:21 4:17,26,34,35. The powers that be. That is, all the civil magistracies that exist; those who have the rule over nations, by whatever means they may have obtained it. This is equally true at all times, that the powers that exist, exist by the permission and providence of God. Are ordained of God. This word ordained denotes the ordering or arrangement which subsists in a military company or army. God sets them in order, assigns them their location, changes and directs them as he pleases. This does not mean that he originates or causes the evil dispositions of rulers, but that he directs and controls their appointment. By this we are not to infer, 1. that he approves their conduct; nor, 2. that what they do is always right; nor, 3. that it is our duty always to submit to them. Their requirements may be opposed to the law of God, and then we are to obey God rather than man, #Ac 4:19 5:29. But it is meant that the power is entrusted to them by God; and that he has the authority to remove them when he pleases. If they abuse their power, however, they do it at their peril; and when so abused, the obligation to obey them ceases. That this is the case is apparent, further, from the nature of the question which would be likely to arise among the early Christians. It could not be and never was a question, whether they should obey a magistrate when he commanded a thing that was plainly contrary to the law of God. But the question was, whether they should obey a heathen magistrate at all. This question the apostle answers in the affirmative, because God had made government necessary, and because it was arranged and ordered by his providence. Probably, also, the apostle had another object in view. At the time in which he wrote this epistle, the Roman empire was agitated with civil dissensions. One emperor followed another in rapid succession. The throne was often seized, not by right, but by crime. Different claimants would rise, and their claims would excite controversy. The object of the apostle was to prevent Christians from entering into those disputes, and from taking an active part in a political controversy. Besides, the throne had been usurped by the reigning emperors, and there was a prevalent disposition to rebel against a tyrannical government. Claudius had been put to death by poison; Caligula in a violent manner; Nero was a tyrant; and, amidst these agitations, and crimes, and revolutions, the apostle wished to guard Christians from taking an active part in political affairs. {v} "For there is no power" #Da 2:21 {1} "Ordained" or, "ordered"



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by theindependentjournal
 


I give biblical scholars very little credence, I know a guy who has a master's degree in theology, he know nothing about what the Bible means.

The problem with some of the very first things I read from those "biblical scholars" is it sounds like they are saying that the gospel is complicated, or like it's some sorta code that you have to decipher, it's not, it was written by simple men who tried to explain things in there own way, so the best way to approach it is in that way, not some sorta "it's metaphorical for this or that", if Paul is speaking literally, than it's pretty evident, you can even tell when he's being sarcastic, this is not Paul's writing, it is someone else, someone wanting to control people by manipulating the Bible.

-Lahara



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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I just love how many christians flaunt that set of verses, saying that we must obey all that our governments toss our way, and then complain when they see signs of a one world government, saying it's of the devil and leading to the tribulation and antichrist.


Double standards for the win, eh?



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Jomina
I just love how many christians flaunt that set of verses, saying that we must obey all that our governments toss our way, and then complain when they see signs of a one world government, saying it's of the devil and leading to the tribulation and antichrist.


Double standards for the win, eh?


Yes, it is rather humorous, but it's more of a tragedy though, most Christians are actually believing and putting there faith in the "America Religion", where they think that America is the greatest, there is no country better than America, America never does anything wrong, this is what many Christians seem to believe.

The fact is America is subservient to Mammon, that is, the deification of money.

Christians just want there McDonalds and there Joel Olsteen, nothing else matters to them than hearing that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

I pray that The sleeping giant awakens.

-Lahara



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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Tampered with? Of course it has been. That's what the Council of Nicea was all about.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by Resinveins
 


Yes, I've heard that before and feel that, that is what it was for, had that feeling ever since I was a boy and my father (who was a pastor) told me about it, something in me told me that those people didn't want some things in the Bible that should be in and that they put things in that shouldn't be in.

Do you have any documentation to back this up? I'd be greatly interested in reading it.

-Lahara



posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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wow, good post to get people reading anyway...i googled "Council of Nicea" and have been reading for hours.



posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 04:26 PM
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Of course the bible's been tampered with. There have been books added, books taken out, things purposefully mistranslated...



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:01 AM
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the bible is not written for us; it was written for people around Jesus's Time and place. God has sent prophets in every times and places--for those times and places. And as the books and the teachings got corrupted by people, God sent new prophets and new books for a "newer time". Like after the message of Moses got corrupted, God sent Jesus. And after the message of Jesus got corrupted, got sent Mohammad. However, Mohammad is the last and final prophet and his book is the final devine revelation--for the whole of humanity until the day of judgement; and God has challanged people that this book (the Quran) will never be corrupted by the people, and still today we have proof that Quran has never been tempered with--and it is a challange to people to find contradictions in Quran.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by TheRandom1
 


Roman's 13 does not contradict the message of Christ as demonstrated in these two verses:
John 19:10-11 "Jesus replied, 'You would have no power over me at all if it had not been given you from above; that is why the man who handed me over to you has the greater guilt.'"

and

Matthew 22:17-21 "Give us your opinion, then. Is it permissible to pay taxes to Caesar or not?'
But Jesus was aware of their malice and replied, 'You hypocrites! Why are you putting me to the test?
Show me the money you pay the tax with.' They handed him a denarius,
and he said, 'Whose portrait is this? Whose title?'
They replied, 'Caesar's.' Then he said to them, 'Very well, pay Caesar what belongs to Caesar -- and God what belongs to God.'"

I understand that the injunction that Christians should be obedient to civil law can cause such questions to arise but I think the position on the Christian relationship to civil law might best be summarised by a quotation from "A Man For All Seasons", the dramatisation of the life of St Thomas More:


What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? ... And when the law was down, and the Devil turned round on you - where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's, and if you cut them down -- and you're just the man to do it -- do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!


A Christian is not an anarchist and is subject to the civil law ordinarily and particularly to the Divine Law. For a Christian the civil law is, to a degree, a protection as it is to all people where it is just and reflects the Divine Law. Christians, to paraphrase Christ, do not come to usurp civil law but to complete it - to raise it to the standard of the Divine Law. A Christian is not required to obey unjust laws, but in their objection to such laws they are not obliged to, nor encouraged to, anarchically seek to overthrow the whole civil law.

The means of such a raising of the civil law are given in Paul's continuing thoughts in Romans 13 where "love" is presented as the ultimate obligation to those with whom we find ourselves living, our neighbours.

Paul himself, writing this letter in Corinth, attended to visit the already established Christian community in Rome, his plan to do so freely was thwarted by his arrest. Paul then, using civil law, travels to Rome in Roman chains as he appeals to Caesar as a Roman Citizen. He is using civil law here, and observation of it, as a means of fulfilling his mission. The sword Paul speaks of as the symbol of civil power becomes it's literal manifestation when Paul, as a Roman Citizen, is beheaded with the sword.

Christians are far from compelled to observe those unjust laws (laws which contradict the Divine Law) but are exhorted to, as citizens and by love, transform civil law to better reflect the divine.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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of course the Bible was tampered with...the Church chose which gospels had authority at the Council of Nicea right? That means other accounts of Jesus' life don't have as much authority as the synoptic authors :S

Meaning the Church has always changed the Bible to fit there needs and even only made it availble in Latin, even though it was dead since the 5th century! This meant it would be another 1000 years before people, you and me, could read the Bible in out language! Obvisouly they were hiding something and Martin Luther changed it by saying this isnt right and we should know what we are believing in (really tampering in the Bible is a whole other story - or book- in itself)

As for these verses:

It makes sense because rulers were second in command after God, and James I, was the ruler of England right at the time of the reformation when the Bible was translated into the vernacular.

He probably saw the Church was losing power and that no where in there power was given to himself (or any ruler for that matter), so he added it! Had he not, people would question the rulers connection to God and authority on anything so it makes sense for him to have added it.

EDIT: More thoughts and syntax.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Portugoal]



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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Watch Ring of Power..!!


NOW!


Abraham isn't who he said he was neither..



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by xbranscombex
Watch Ring of Power..!!


NOW!


Abraham isn't who he said he was neither..


I have been putting off watching that for a blizzard day or something when I'm forced to be home lol. 5 Hours is a bit much for 1:33 in the AM. lol



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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It hasnt been tampered with, its just been re written so many times nobody really knows what the hell was written in the first place





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