A Birth Certificate Study - Mine

Welcome Sunner and thanks for posting. I have a couple questions.

So, you were actually born in France? On your Certificate, in the Birthplace box, does it say the town in France?

How about your daughter's “Certificate of Live Birth” that you have? Does it say she was born abroad or here in the US?

Thanks!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Yes, It has my full mane... sex
Date of birth August 5, 1956; hour 1200AM
Place of birth (in full) US Army Hospital, La Chapel-St. Mesmin, Loriet, France
Then continues with Father's info on the left side, Mother's on the right even the date of their marriage, And the name of the doctor with the hospital being his address. & signed by my father (not mother)

I will get my daughter's out in a few min & tell you what is on it. She was born in Okinawa.

I looked at my Birth Certificates my copy of the Vaulted Original and a short form from Pennsylvania, and my five childrens, 2 California girls, 2 North Carolina Boys, and 1 Florida boy. They are all Certificates of Live Birth except on from the County of Los Angeles - Registar-Recorder/County CLERK that is titled Certified Absrtact of Birth on a very short form.

I did run across something that kind of disturbed me the other day when a person from Washington State told me of the details of her Birth Certificate she claimed it was titled United States of America, Department of Commerce, Census Buruea, State of Washington.

A bit off topic but I thought that wording a bit odd?

Does anyone else have a Birth Certificate with similiar wording?

Thanks

Thanks BH,
I replied with my info and then I got my med records out of my trunk. This is titled
"Clinical Record Cover Sheet-- for use of this form, see AR 40-400; the proponent agency is the Office of The Surgeon General
Then sectioned off with very specific directions numbered out 1-8 to right of the 1st boxed sectioned
Which has my dependant #, full name at that time, sex, age & religion, date & time of admission followed by my ex’s info as well as the name of the base he was stationed at.

With the Admitting Officer’s name then specifies for clinical services Obstetrics Service Discharge from hospital & date

Then it has a box for Diagnoses - Operations and Special Procedures
Below that is typed:
Dg #1 (6500) Delivery, Livebirth, OA presentation, without complications.
RhoGam injection.
10 Apr 75 (799) Spontaneous
(759) Episiotomy (ML)

Gravidity 2
Parity 1
Duration of Pregnancy 39 weeks
See Reg No 268614, Lastname Inf Female (Genii Marie).

Then typed name for the signature of attending physician or Dentist
And typed name for the signature of Registrar or Medical Records Officer

Like I said it has the Reg # for her birth, as well as her full name. But for some reason the American Consulate cannot find any record of her being born.

Originally posted by Benevolent HereticWhat you have is a "souvenir" birth certificate. Read about it in the Original Post. If I were you, I would send away for a "real" birth certificate.

No, that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the official records that a doctor fills out the minute the child is born. What I'm talking about is called (at least on my paperwork) a "Physician's Newborn Record" - which contains information about the hospital the child was born at, the child's APGAR scores, child's blood type, basic information about the delivery (natural, C-section), the fact they put antibiotics in her eyes (a law in Pennsylvania), her weight, height, head circumference, plus stamped footprints for identification purposes. It proves that my daughter was born in a Pennsylvania hospital (therefore a natural-born citizen).

I also have her "real" birth certificate that was mailed to me by the State of Pennsylvania, and this is entitled: "Certification of Birth."

Underneath it states: "Commonwealth of Pennsylvania * Department of Health * Vital Records"

It includes:
Date of Birth
County of Birth
File No
Date Filed (happens to be 3 days after her birth)
Date Issued (the date is 4 days after her birth)
Name
Father's Name
Mother's Maiden Name

There is an official Seal of Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Department of Health and it is signed by: Charles Hardester * State Resistrar

As far as HIPPA violation - I don't think there's any if he agrees to release his hospital birth records from 45+ years ago... considering Obama had *already released his current medical records* a few months ago. I would think no one would feel violated about releasing your own hospital birth records - I mean, what's the worst it's going to say, that you only received a "6" out of "10" on the APGAR scores... or that you were a little jaundiced?

Originally posted by themamayada
I'm talking about the official records that a doctor fills out the minute the child is born. What I'm talking about is called (at least on my paperwork) a "Physician's Newborn Record"

Oh! I see. Sorry, my misunderstanding.

I also have her "real" birth certificate that was mailed to me by the State of Pennsylvania, and this is entitled: "Certification of Birth."

So, yours is titled "Certification" instead of "Certificate". Interesting. Yours is the closest yet to what Obama posted. Cheers

I mean, what's the worst it's going to say, that you only received a "6" out of "10" on the APGAR scores... or that you were a little jaundiced?

I don't think there's any reason to believe that Obama is "embarrassed" about anything. That's Internet rumor. He simply doesn't have the long form. He requested a birth certificate from Hawaii in 2007 and he was sent the short form in the form of a certification, just as you have.

There's nothing on a Hawaiian Birth Certificate (long form) to be embarrassed about anyway.

The Health Department has verified that they have his official Certificate on file in their Vital Records Department.

Something else I was wondering about ---

Wasn't Obama's mother a student in Hawaii when he was born and had never traveled to Kenya?

Did she even have a passport at the time?

Since Obama's father was trying to remain in the states for his education, why would he take his new wife back to Kenya briefly just so she could give birth there? Wouldn't it be better for him to have his pregnant wife give birth to an American citizen?

Just common sense stuff really. People keep focusing on a paper and some out-of-context remarks made by someone in Kenya - but what about the physical location of the mother? All I've heard is a make believe story about her that's not backed up by the records.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Thank you for the insightful post.
My county only uses the footprint type of birth certificate. It comes with an embossed seal of authenticity. There are different rules in each state.

The Obama birth certificate controversy shows how lawyers can get caught up in their own legalese.
It's kind of like getting caught up in an online personality and getting lost in the emotions presented online and forgetting the bigger picture.

If each side has to be right all of the time one side may win but the real truth will be elusive.

"I have your parents' birthday message from Earth" - HAL

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Conclusions.

1. My conclusion is that the Certificate of Live Birth that Obama posted on the Internet is a "short form" (abstract) of his vault copy and the information therein is exactly the same as that which is on his vault copy on record in the state of Hawaii’s Health Department.

2. Further, since the title of my long form AND my friend's short form are exactly the same (Certificate of Live Birth), I conclude that there is no real difference between a "Birth Certificate" and a "Certificate of Live Birth" except for the volume of information, as is so many times asserted by people who are asking for the "original". They have the original. It's just a condensed version of the vault original.

I’d love to hear your comments, thoughts and questions. And I’d also love to hear what you find out when you inspect YOUR birth certificates. Thanks for reading!

I offer that the differences between the language "Birth Certificate" and "Certificate of Live Birth" are due to the 50 states. Everything in America has to be done 50 ways. We seem to have no conception of the advantages of uniformity. Or the economy.

The only “issue” in the November 4 election and birth certificates was whether John S. McCain was a “natural born” citizen. I have written eloquently on that topic elsewhere. (The answer is NO). Some jerks have brought a suit against Obama but the Supreme Court is expected to ignore it. To be dismissed without comment. Lack of standing.

Birth Certificates are controlled at the county level; there is no national standard or anything like that.

It doesn't matter what an Ohio or Pennsylvania birth certificate looks like, or how it's worded. What matters is a Hawaiian birth certificate from the same county, from the same time ( they can change over time)

Unfortunately I have no scanner, or digital camera.


Mine is issued from "The New York State Department of Health"

Albany, N. Y. 12208

The heading reads: "Certificate of Birth Registration"

`This certifies that a certificate of birth has been file under the name of:

MY name is printed under that, here.

It appears to be short form, as it just shows sex, DOB,Name of Father, Maiden name of Mother, Date File, and Date issued. As well as the Registrar on the bottmom right.

Date filed and issue was --,---1975

Registrar of Vital Statics, only has a signatureabove it, and I cannot read the name.

It's also the original document.

Hope this helps with your info gathering.



[edit on 7-12-2008 by Nola213]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I finally found one of our adopted children's "Certificate of Birth Data".
Here is what is very interesting about it.
It gives our child's correct date of birth, the city and Latin American country of birth, BUT it lists my wife and I as the parents, even though, obviously, we were not the biological parents. At the bottom of the "Certificate of Birth Data", in bold letters, is the phrase "This Certificate is NOT proof of US citizenship."

Now, again, I don't want to argue about Obama's birth. As I've said before, I hope for the sake of the country that the Supreme Court just lets the issue drop, and quite honestly, he'll either succeed or fail because of what he does, or doesn't do, not because of where he is born.

However, it is interesting that my wife and I are listed as the parents. Nowhere does it say adoptive parents, or anything of the sort. So it is possible for an someone that was adopted, to not even know who his/her biological parents were, based upon documents,unless they had been told or are somehow able to locate an original document. That, of course, may be a problem in some third world countries.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

Now, again, I don't want to argue about Obama's birth. As I've said before, I hope for the sake of the country that the Supreme Court just lets the issue drop, and quite honestly, he'll either succeed or fail because of what he does, or doesn't do, not because of where he is born.

He was born in the state of Hawaii. Rest easy. Obama is indeed a NATURAL BORN citizen and eligible for the office of president. There is no ISSUE as I've heard it put. A qualificaoitn I cannot say all the candidates possessed. But November 4 rendered that moot.

reply to post by donwhite

He was born in the state of Hawaii. Rest easy. Obama is indeed a NATURAL BORN citizen and eligible for the office of president. There is no ISSUE as I've heard it put. A qualificaoitn I cannot say all the candidates possessed. But November 4 rendered that moot.

My belief is that the best person for the job should be elected. There certainly should be a requirement that the candidate live the majority of his/her life in the US. However, for the sake of everyone's sanity, some effort should be made to change the qualifications to avoid issues such as were raised in this past election. Why should we be spending effort and time debating a technical point, when the world is burning around us?

In all honesty even if Obama did not have a legal birth certificate, how hard would it be for him to get one? If anything I think it would just become a big cover up to avoid huge out cries from the public. And they will be huge. I don't care either way as I voted for McCain. Not because of the person he was, but because I like obama as a person, but not economically.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
It gives our child's correct date of birth, the city and Latin American country of birth, BUT it lists my wife and I as the parents, even though, obviously, we were not the biological parents. At the bottom of the "Certificate of Birth Data", in bold letters, is the phrase "This Certificate is NOT proof of US citizenship."

Thank you! This is exactly the information I was wondering about with adopted children born outside the US.

I don't think they could legally say the child was born in the US. For citizenship reasons. BUT the child is probably a naturalized citizen through the adoption. I'm not asking you to verify that, but it is my suspicion that somewhere in the adoption papers, your child became a "naturalized" US citizen. That's why the certificate cannot be used for citizenship purposes.

Secondly, it says you are the parents because, through adoption, you ARE. Many adoptive parents don't want their children to know. So, the birth certificate lists THEM as the parents. Your child's original birth certificate (with biological parentage info) is probably locked up in a vault in the country of their birth.

Very interesting! Thanks! The puzzle becomes clearer with every bit of information added to picture.

My suspicion is that if Obama WAS born in Kenya, and his original long form birth certificate issued in Kenya had the Kenyan Doctor and Kenyan Hospital's name on it, when he got a Hawaiian birth certificate, it would STILL say he was born in Kenya, NOT Hawaii. So the short form that he posted on the Internet, coming directly from his long form, would say "Place of Birth: Kenya", even though it's a Hawaiian Certification.

So is Obama from Hawaii or from Kenya!!!?

My conclusion is that since his Certification (containing information which comes directly from his long form Certificate) says his birthplace is Honolulu, Hawaii... He was born in Hawaii.

The information on the Certification we've all seen comes from the vaulted original that Hawaii has said they have. This is ON the Certification:

“I certify that this is a true copy OR abstract of the record on file in the Hawaii State Department of Health"



If he had been born in Kenya, he COULD still have a Hawaiian birth certificate, but it would list the Place of Birth as Kenya.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I don't think they could legally say the child was born in the US. For citizenship reasons. BUT the child is probably a naturalized citizen through the adoption. I'm not asking you to verify that, but it is my suspicion that somewhere in the adoption papers, your child became a "naturalized" US citizen. That's why the certificate cannot be used for citizenship purposes.

Actually, we had to apply for citizenship for our children. However, they are grown up now, and I've heard that they process may have changed. When our oldest two were adopted back in the 1970's, the citizenship process took 5 years.

Anyway, I am glad that the Supreme Court has refused to hear the case, because regardless of the outcome, we need to get on with it, and start to handle the problems we have in this country.
Unlike some others, I accept the fact that Obama is my president, and will support him, as I've supported all presidents in the past.

The time for partisanship needs to end, because we cannot continue to bicker while problems continue to mount up. We are all in this together, so I say "Good luck, Mr. President, let's work together, Democrats, Republicans, and Independents to address the many problems we have today."
Amen

reply to post by ProfEmeritus




That is all.