A Birth Certificate Study - Mine

In light of the Obama Birth Certificate controversy, I decided to do some research on birth certificates in general and see if I could clear up and deconstruct some of the disinformation that’s out there.

I would like to invite you to participate fully in this study by digging out YOUR birth certificate and posting what you find in this thread. I have included pictures below and if you want to do the same, I think it would be fascinating.

If you do decide to post photos of your certificates, I strongly encourage you to black out all identifying information that appears on your certificate.

There are four things I’m interested in:

1. The title of the document
2. Whether it’s a “long form” or “short form” (defined below)
3. The Registrar’s statement and signature.
4. The issue date

What I have found so far is very interesting and I hope others will join in to further our education and continue to deny ignorance by participating fully in this thread.

General Certificate Information

There are three types of birth certificates.

1. The Vault Original – or “long form”, which contains the name of the hospital, the parents’ occupations and the attending physician’s signature along with all the vital information found on:

2. The “Short Form” - the information on which is extracted directly from the vault original. These 2 forms (short form and long form) can be used in a court of law or to verify age, place of birth, citizenship, etc. The short form is the legal proof of the long form.

3. The Souvenir Birth Certificate – which usually has the baby’s footprint on it. Souvenir birth certificates are NOT legally accepted as proof of age or citizenship. Only a COPY of the original OR a “short form” can be used as legal verification.

When a child is born, a birth certificate is created and filed in the state Health Department records vault. What people take home is either a COPY of their vault birth certificate OR a “souvenir” birth certificate (the one with the footprint).

When you request a birth certificate from the state, you will either get a photostatic COPY (photocopy) of the vault original, OR a “short form”, the information on which is extracted directly from the vault original. This is sometimes called an “abstract”.

Abstract: 1: a summary of points (as of a writing) usually presented in skeletal form ; also : something that summarizes or concentrates the essentials of a larger thing or several things

Birth Certificates

My Birth Certificate:

The birth certificate I have is a COPY of my vault original. It was requested in 1963, 6 years after my birth, before it became common practice to issue the “short form”, as it is now. Here is a photo of my birth certificate. Keep in mind. This is a direct copy of the vault ORIGINAL. Notice the title of the document. Certificate of Live Birth.



The State Registrar’s statement near the bottom reads:
“I hereby certify that this child was born alive on the date stated above.”
Followed by the Registrar’s signature.

The certification at the bottom reads:

“I hereby certify that the above record is a photostatic copy of the original certificate which is registered and preserved in the Division of Vital Statistics of the Ohio Department of Health.”



What this means is, I don’t have a birth certificate titled “Birth Certificate”. This is my original and it’s clearly titled “Certificate of Live Birth”.

Another Birth Certificate:

Here is another birth certificate of someone I know who ordered it last year. What he received is the “short form” with just the basic information on it. It is also titled “Certificate of Live Birth” and has only the very basic information on it.



The State Registrar’s statement at the bottom reads:
“I certify that this a true, full and correct copy of the original certificate on file OR the vital record facts on file in the Vital Records unit of the Oregon Center for Health Statistics.”



Obama Birth Certificate

Everyone has seen Obama’s birth certificate on the Internet. For this discussion, I will refer to the photos on Factcheck.org

It is titled “Certification of Live Birth” and the second picture shows the Registrar’s statement and signature:

“I certify that this is a true copy OR abstract of the record on file in the Hawaii State Department of Health"

Conclusions

1. My conclusion is that the Certificate of Live Birth that Obama posted on the Internet is a "short form" (abstract) of his vault copy and the information therein is exactly the same as that which is on his vault copy on record in the state of Hawaii’s Health Department.

2. Further, since the title of my long form AND my friend's short form are exactly the same (Certificate of Live Birth), I conclude that there is no real difference between a "Birth Certificate" and a "Certificate of Live Birth" except for the volume of information, as is so many times asserted by people who are asking for the "original". They have the original. It's just a condensed version of the vault original.

I’d love to hear your comments, thoughts and questions. And I’d also love to hear what you find out when you inspect YOUR birth certificates.

Thanks for reading!


[edit on 6-12-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Hey BH, nice post - a star and a flag. I hope some of the people believing Mr. Berg take a long look at your post. This is all about what would hold up in court and what is real. I almost want the SCOTUS to take on the case just to shut everyone up. It sure is funny when you ask for proof of Obama's birth outside of the US the only document they produce is the school registry from Indonesia which erroneous list his citizenship and show his birth in Honolulu . . . Go Figure!

benevolent heretic:
i like the idea of this thread.
you bring up valid points and logical thinking.
having said that, i think that because some people are so completely in denial, no amount of logic will suffice.
oh btw, i'd post my own birth cerificate but, alas i don't have a scanner.
mine is very similar in design to the 2nd shown; just substituting maryland for oregon would be the only difference.
i once saw my original as a child that my mother received and it had more detailed info(doctor's name and whatnot).
good effort though, bh, it will not convince the hard of hearing or seeing.

Thanks.

I'm not really interested in convincing anyone of anything. I just want people to see what I've found, look at their own BCs and share what they find.

It's not about a person changing their mind, it's about stretching it.

I just took pictures of my certificate with my camera.

mine is normal. it has my date of birth, mother name, hospital, mothers address in 82. and all those other stuff.

reply to post by heather65


I am sure if the "tin foil crowd", AKA "Bergnuts" got there hands on the long version there would be a whole bunch a threads on the doctor being part of the conspiracy!

Don't get me wrong, I like a good conspiracy too, but it has to be backed by some facts!

[edit on 12/6/08 by mel1962]

Some of you guys are freakin ridiculous. Obama was born in Hawaii, his copy of his birth certificate is out there. Theres no faking it. Everyone in the state of hawaii that requests for a copy of their certificate will never get it the way that it orginally looked. It all looks exactly the same way Obama's one does out there on the web. I requested a copy of mines and it looks exactly like that too. So cut it out everyone, what other proof do you need!

Its already been well established that the people who are pretending Obama is a Muslim from Kenya are delusional and ignorant. We understand them to be less culturally competent than us.

These threads are draining the ATS collective energy. Just my opinion don't flip out.

I really thought this would be a fun and interesting way to get some REAL information instead of arguing and debating the validity of Obama's eligibility. I thought it would be FUN for us to dig out our own certificates and see what we find.

Half of the people who have responded clearly didn't even read the OP. I'll never understand why people read the title and respond when they don't even know what it's about. I obviously spent some time and energy researching and compiling data. Frankly, if you just want to bitch about it, I wish you'd just move along.

Don't freak out - just my opinion.

wow, BH, you are noble...to spend energy trying to convince these trolls. You are getting played. But as long as you know it. They don't really believe Obama is from Kenya. They found a stupid way to delegitimize Obama's win. It's the dumbest thing ever. Hey, "Obama isn't an American, sorry, re do the vote" LOL!

And you think they're serious? They're trolling.

I will try and scan in tonight/tomorrow....im not near a scanner now.

But I am looking at 3 birth certificates in my family.

Two of them have (both are certified copies of the original one that is on file):

Birth Name
Date of Birth
Place of Birth
Mailing address
Both Parents Name
Doctor's Name and his address and one has his signature
Hospital Name
Date BC was Filed
State Registrar's signature
Date BC was issued
File Number
Raised, textured seal. Watermarks all over the front.

The 3rd has (a duplicate copy - original copy lost - I guess this is being called a "short form"):
Birth Name
Date of Birth
Place of Birth
Date BC was filed
Date BC was issued
Both parents name
State Registrar Signature
Copy issue date
File Number
Raised seal and the entire BC is textured. Watermarks on front.

All 3 have disclaimers that they are true copies of the original and can not be reproduced or altered. Two are from the same state, the 3rd from a different state. One is from 1971, the 2nd 1975 and the 3rd, 2004

All 3 are called: Certificate of Vital Record


Also, in order for me to get copies of any of these (which I also have copies of all), I must contact the state's REGISTRAR OFFICE - not the hospital!




[edit on 12/6/2008 by greeneyedleo]

For the record, I just checked and both mine and my girlfriends birth certificates say "Certificate of Live Birth".

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I was beginning to think no one would want to play.

Sounds like the first 2 are photocopies of the vault original, issued in the 70s, when it was common to issue actual copies and the 3rd is the short form, issued more recently in 2004.

Very interesting! My friend's also said Certificate of Vital Record at the very top, but under that it said Certificate of Live Birth. Yours don't have "birth" in their titles?

Well, BH. Your timing is impeccable.
I don't know if you saw my BTS thread about losing my wallet, but that loss forced me to request a new Birth certificate from my home state.

I received the document in three days! It would have be only two days, but I missed the UPS guy first time around.

The top says "Certificate of Live Birth"..
It has Mom and Dads name and age. The county, and time of my birth.
It was filed 3 days after my actual birth. And this document also has the date that it was generated, which was November 21st, 2008.

I used this document at the DMV to get a new license. They preferred it over another picture ID (company badge) that I had.

I just got my license yesterday. 7 days after getting the DMV photo taken.

I'm SOMEBODY AGAIN!

Just to be clear, I am not an Obama fan at all. But for those clinging to hopes that his Birth Certificate will be his undoing, they are barking up the wrong tree.

nice work.

I never found my wallet. (BH, do you have it? LOL)



[edit on 6-12-2008 by spacedoubt]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!

I was beginning to think no one would want to play.

Sounds like the first 2 are photocopies of the vault original, issued in the 70s, when it was common to issue actual copies and the 3rd is the short form, issued more recently in 2004.

Very interesting! My friend's also said Certificate of Vital Record at the very top, but under that it said Certificate of Live Birth. Yours don't have "birth" in their titles?

One of the long forms says just over the chart of info: Certificate of Birth. The other 2 say nothing about "birth".

[edit on 12/6/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
Its already been well established that the people who are pretending Obama is a Muslim from Kenya are delusional and ignorant. We understand them to be less culturally competent than us.

These threads are draining the ATS collective energy. Just my opinion don't flip out.

I don't understand your post. Obama really is a Muslim from Kenya, that is already a well known and documented fact. Grew up as a muslim in Indonesia. I think what we are talking about here is him proving that all the stuff surrounding his place of birth, and his parents citizenship is still up in the air. If it wasn't up in the air still, there would be no more posts.

Doesn't matter either or, our government is a fake charade and hasn't been "for the people" in so long most have forgot why it's even there. Keep your eyes open, America just witnessed the "perfect" brainwashing of it's people.

Just a friendly reminder here.
Lets keep this thread on track, post Birth certificate info, and/or some related commentary.

Try to keep from political arguments or opinions of political figures.

If we can keep this all straight, some valuable information will be gained. And that's what we all should be looking for.

ask your self this question... why does it say informant under the signature of the "birth mother"?

Originally posted by knows_but_doesnt

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
Its already been well established that the people who are pretending Obama is a Muslim from Kenya are delusional and ignorant. We understand them to be less culturally competent than us.

These threads are draining the ATS collective energy. Just my opinion don't flip out.

I don't understand your post. Obama really is a Muslim from Kenya, that is already a well known and documented fact. Grew up as a muslim in Indonesia. I think what we are talking about here is him proving that all the stuff surrounding his place of birth, and his parents citizenship is still up in the air. If it wasn't up in the air still, there would be no more posts.

Doesn't matter either or, our government is a fake charade and hasn't been "for the people" in so long most have forgot why it's even there. Keep your eyes open, America just witnessed the "perfect" brainwashing of it's people.

you've got it all figured out then dont cha?

'evening sir

A lot of work and research went into this post.

Starred and Flagged.

Great job and very interesting.

Here is a nice research video explaining Birth Certificates.

Big difference between a "Certification of Live Birth" and a "Birth Certificate"







[edit on 6-12-2008 by Realtruth]