Victims? Is it karma? Is this karma? Is this the will of God?

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posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by HulaAnglers
 


Bible thumping? Are you reading what I've written or what you want to read?

Calm down and read it again. If you understood (at all) what I wrote, I feel certain you would not have deliberately confirmed what I wrote in your (reply's) attempt to invalidate me. Did you really mean to do that? lol




posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by Thurisaz
 


Oh, my dear Thurisaz you sound totally distraught and understandably so. But please understand one thing and know it to be true (I have only read your OP so if other posters have said the same I'm sorry to be repetitive);

#1 IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT

#2 YOU DID NOT ... NOR EVER WILL DESERVE IT


I have not experienced what you have but I was in a physically and psychologically abusive marriage for the biggest part of my life (21yrs).

So I do have some idea how helpless you are feeling and how easy it is;

to feel responsible ...

to feel it's something you have to accept ...

to feel alone ...

to feel like 'what's the point' ...

to feel totally useless ...

to feel ashamed for 'allowing' someone treat you in an unacceptible way ...

to feel weak ...

to feel like a victim ...


I have felt all these things and more - but Thurisaz you have to remind yourself right now that you are holding the trump card ... you have 'freewill' and it will take all your strength in this weakened condition to make such an effort but you are in a position now to turn your life around ... reclaim your dignity and self-esteem !

The way I see it most people who suffer emmence life-trauma fit into one of two catagories ... 'sinkers' and 'swimmers' ! And whatever choice the individual chooses you need to know that every single person who has been in a position like yours (or mine), including those who have suffered more than us (and believe me there are many), all have the ability to become a 'swimmer'.

I could have chosen to be a 'sinker' it would have been so easy because I lived in fear of my ex-husband every day of our married life. But I decided to swim and I splashed and spluttered and clawed my way out of the crap I'd been slowly sinking in. And I would be lying if I said this happened overnight ... it didn't (but it's never too late). I perservered (I'm not sure how) and you can too, really you can.

And do you know something Thursiaz ... one day something just clicks inside and you know all that struggling to to keep your head above the water is over because you are no longer the person you used to be. You are so much stronger than you ever imagined possible (and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise).

No-one who reads my posts here or knows me in the real world could ever imagine what a scared little rabbit I once was ... because I am such a strong (and in spite of it all), well-rounded woman now who can hardly believe it myself.

But let me tell you a little secret ... without my awful experiences and all the effort involved, I would not be this person I am now. I turned the negativity of all that had gone before into strength ... and you can too.

And Thurisaz, once you have healed yourself and feel your strength pushing the bad stuff out ... you will find yourself in an enviable position where you might be able to help others who have experienced the kind of things you have (learn them how to swim for themselves), because there is no better teacher than the one who has been where you are now and climbed their way out.

If you want to chat or ask me anything send me a u2u. Woody



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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I went back and read the whole thread to see were the clash happened, it seems my reputation is being made out as a satanist but I assure you I don't have the time(just thought the value system of this church's mission statement was of no nonsence). But I do take the time to validate the victims perspective in the concrete world. And cosmicegg I really don't get ya. I will never accept that what happened to Thurisaz was necessary for her to develop some biblical plan or quality. The victims are targeted precisely because they have compassion and empathy and the old forgiveness routine keeps the evil from evolving. I have had to cut the cord with all of my family, they continue to lie, cheat, ect. they are greedy and lazy with no remorse - my mother even braggs,as if it was a quality that she is indeferent to the suffering she has caused all of us . I am sad that they are not really there, that I could'nt snap them out of the role they have been playing. Out of the 3 kids she managed to keep, 2 became evil and one remained sane. As a surviver I say to Thurisaz - run - to youself

[edit on 6-12-2008 by HulaAnglers]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by CosmicEgg
Edit to state that no condescension was intended there. None of us walk through life unscathed. Only you can choose to hold onto pain and keep the wound open, likewise only you can choose to let it go and simply feel the experience, and grow from it.
[edit on 6/12/2008 by CosmicEgg]

The back to reality approach



Originally posted by Thurisaz
Now, what if I were a whore before I was born? We all know God hates whores. Obviously things happened because God wanted me to be punished for being a whore? I mean when I was called that, I was only five but why would that happen? How do I make sense of that?


eeegad. - I thought God hated the Sin that whores lust in - not the sinner.

Originally posted by prototism


...the fact there are some screwed up people in the world, you wonder if you somehow deserved it, merely because of the Christian notion of the existence of sin.

...I am of the opinion that if you were a "promiscuous" "lady" in a past life, and (somehow, contradictorily) subscribed to the idea of Sin, you will not be reborn into a innocent young girl's body. You will be punished with a less than desirable body.


past life? sin? punished? wonder if somehow deserved it?

You basically just pointed out that she was not born into sin but born into the thought of sin as a punishment because of her past life

IMO I will not negate your opinons - maybe you can elaborate.

but honestly IMO - to Thurisaz:
- my only insight is that - when we cannot come to understanding why we were or are victims - we look for answers elsewhere, to the point of creating an excuse to blame ourselves.
- IMO - If it is not absolutely clear why - then you are not to blame! you can only take responsibility of such evil acts if you are aware of knowing its evil before hand.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by HulaAnglers
 


Maybe someday you will. Let's hope so. Many years ago, I would have had the same reaction to the words I wrote previously. But as I said before, things are not what they seem to be. When you get a glimpse of how big the picture is and how little of it we actually get to see ... it changes you. I've been privileged to have a glimpse and I am working on earning the right to see more of it. It's huge! I can't begin to express it.

Suffice to say that what we think we know of good and bad, right and wrong, benevolence and malevolence ... We're just beginners. This is kindergarten stuff. It frustrates me to have to try to explain this stuff but it seems to be necessary because I think I've typed the same words in four different threads over the past few days.

I am in no way advocating hurting anyone nor allowing yourself to be hurt. I'm only asking you to consider why you feel so strongly that it hurts. I'm asking you to consider why you want to keep that hurt with you.

Look, I've had all the "injustices" too. I could recount them here to you all. I have no secrets. But why? To what end? We all have them. You know, in the Bible at some point, it is said that God will never give you what you cannot bear. So bear it! Learn the lesson and keep moving. It's all about the lesson, not the teacher.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Thurisaz

In a religious context, we are born into sin, thus what ever happens to us is our own fault. An eye for an eye etc. I was punished with sexual abuse as a child, fact. I believe this happened to me because I deserved it. Like it happened so I must have deserved it. Why else did it happen?


I am so sorry that this has happened to you, and I encourage you to seek counceling. It was NOT your fault and it seems like your abuser still has quite a bit of influence over you, even if he is not around you physically any more. I think he has tried to convince you that it was your fault so you would not rat him out.

I am going to assume you beleive in reincarnation since you brought up being a whore before you were born.

I do NOT think that what happened in past lives has so much direct bearing on our lives that it really influences us to the degree that you think. You did NOT deserve to be molested in this life, period, and your abuser certainly doesn't desreve to get away with it because you think you deserved it.

I do not beleive that God doles out punishments like that for people, either. I think it (not to sound like i'm diminishing your pain) just happens by chance.

But I do think you have the potential to become a very strong person from all this.

Just hang in there.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by HulaAnglers
 


Maybe someday you will. Let's hope so. Many years ago, I would have had the same reaction to the words I wrote previously. But as I said before, things are not what they seem to be. When you get a glimpse of how big the picture is and how little of it we actually get to see ... it changes you. I've been privileged to have a glimpse and I am working on earning the right to see more of it. It's huge! I can't begin to express it.

Suffice to say that what we think we know of good and bad, right and wrong, benevolence and malevolence ... We're just beginners. This is kindergarten stuff. It frustrates me to have to try to explain this stuff but it seems to be necessary because I think I've typed the same words in four different threads over the past few days.

I am in no way advocating hurting anyone nor allowing yourself to be hurt. I'm only asking you to consider why you feel so strongly that it hurts. I'm asking you to consider why you want to keep that hurt with you.

Look, I've had all the "injustices" too. I could recount them here to you all. I have no secrets. But why? To what end? We all have them. You know, in the Bible at some point, it is said that God will never give you what you cannot bear. So bear it! Learn the lesson and keep moving. It's all about the lesson, not the teacher.



The bible is good for people who need it. Religion is the worse thing that happened to mankind during this "involution" but it was necessary for people could not think by themselves.
Now, the awareness is higher than it was in the past. Some have put aside religion and books like the bible, because all the answers we look for are inside of us.

There is no right and wrong, it's all part of the "Grand illusion of life".

Part of the problem of people who get hurt in this life or suffer in any way or form comes from the astral entities (dead people) who crave on the energy we loose when we "think" or experience something.

When people will realize that that thoughts do not eminate from our brain, but from another dimension of ourselves, they'll start to understand the extent of the manipulation that is going on. Manipulation is everywhere...
From birth, school, jobs, friends, and finally, by the memory of the human race.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by teklordz
 


Who are you replying to there? If it's to me, please read what I posted previously in this thread. You're preaching to the wrong party.

As for the Bible and/or any other religious text, please don't be so hasty as to disregard them out of hand. They all contain bits of the Truth. Please proceed with caution here. I have used the Bible as my quote source as OP seems to be somewhat familiar with Christian teachings. It would be somewhat out of place for me to use the Qur'an or the Torah or the Book of Mormon or the Gnostic Bible, wouldn't it?

Religion is something else. That is to be taken very lightly. More as a social club for those who need others to validate their "goodness".



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by teklordz
 


Who are you replying to there? If it's to me, please read what I posted previously in this thread. You're preaching to the wrong party.

As for the Bible and/or any other religious text, please don't be so hasty as to disregard them out of hand. They all contain bits of the Truth. Please proceed with caution here. I have used the Bible as my quote source as OP seems to be somewhat familiar with Christian teachings. It would be somewhat out of place for me to use the Qur'an or the Torah or the Book of Mormon or the Gnostic Bible, wouldn't it?

Religion is something else. That is to be taken very lightly. More as a social club for those who need others to validate their "goodness".



The human experience (soul) is here and now. It's a grand experiment for all of us. Outside the physical "reality", there is no polarity, in other words, there is no right or wrong. The polarity of our consciesness is part of the game, that is why there is the illusion of right and wrong.
If you remove the memory of the human race from the equation, there is no more polarity.

Manipulation of our minds is the most critical problem we face, as human beings, either from the invisible worlds or from the physical world.

As far as the truth you're talking about, it does not exist. It's part of the polarity. The only truth is within you and you alone. It comes from your cosmic conterpart. I for one do not believe in anyone but myself.
I don't mind people believing in God (s) or anything in that regard. Belief systems are there for experimentation and it's ok.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by Jomina
 


Big hugs for the OP!



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by HulaAnglers
 


Maybe someday you will. Let's hope so. Many years ago, I would have had the same reaction to the words I wrote previously. But as I said before, things are not what they seem to be. When you get a glimpse of how big the picture is and how little of it we actually get to see ... it changes you. I've been privileged to have a glimpse and I am working on earning the right to see more of it. It's huge! I can't begin to express it.


This rings bells for me. I would have also had a negative reaction to your words. Not any more, you speak volumes of the truth that I have been awakening to. I, too, was a victim of abuse as a small child. Let me say that only a short time ago, was I able realize the experience for what it was and really, really LET IT GO. There was another key to my moving on, and I don't know if it goes hand in hand with Universal Law, but on our earthly realm, when you can forgive your perpetrator and forgive yourself, you will be truly FREE.

OP- I am very sorry for your suffering, it can be unbearable, I know. You will grow in spirit and in strength through this.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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This is really hard for me ....I was molested I dont know how many times from about 2 yrs told to about 8 .
I dont remember most of it ..even though in my 20s I started seeing clips of my childhood while awake and had to ask my mother if any of what I was seeing was real ...it was ..it was then that I found out and realized I had been molested by a few men (stepfather ...and a fisherman who used to babysit me and even stepbrothers) ...I was only about 2 or 3 yrs old .

I cannot tell you how I felt (like worse than a whore) ...and because of all that I HATE SEX ..(hey what can I say) ......and I almost hated men because of it .

After I found all of this out ..I was devastated ...then at 14 I was raped my first sexual encounter ....I then went on a slutty mission (thats what I felt like I was)
And of course I blamed myself ..I must be a nasty person for men to have done that to me ...(How could I have been so nasty at just 2 yrs old) ..
Thought there had to have been something wrong with me ..

I spent the rest of my 20 ish year old time in serious abusive relationships (I mean I felt like I deserved it ) and I tried to take myself out of here several times.....

I gave my life to the Lord at about 23 ...I thought it was all over ..because I layed all of it at the cross at Jesus feet (I layed all my cares upon him) ...
But it did not go away ....for a few years I was trying to get it out and get rid of it but I couldnt ...Then I kept hearing in my mind ..The Lord forgave you for whatever you think you have done bad ..but you have not forgiven yourself which was why I could not go forward ...
That day I decided I would forgive myself ...but first I had to forgive those who wronged me .So I did ....I actually looked at them like Christ did to those who killed him ..Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do ..
(I never got to tell them in person but I forgave them in my heart for real) .

I was able to move on ...

Just a year ago maybe ...my cousin ran into my stepdad out of nowhere ..I have not heard from him or seen him for years and years (I didnt want to) .
She called me and was all excited about him running into her ..I told her what happened to me as a child ..turns out he had done it to her too ...
So she asked if I wanted his address ...I said NO >>.a few days later I said yes and felt led to write him a letter ....
I felt like he needed to know that I remember all that he had done to me ....I told him though that I forgive him ...and that I am praying for God to have mercy on him ....I never heard back from him ...but I really didnt even want to ..

Anyway ...I leave all of that in the past ...I have to ..because it held me back so long in my life that I almost did not get to move forward ..and thats what I am doing now ....(The last 13 years has been the best times in my life) ..........
I dont say it didnt happen ..I say it happened and now I have dealt with it and will move on to my future ..I refuse to allow my past to affect my future anymore ..because now time is short ..I am 49 years old ...and have wasted a good 30 years on holding onto something that cannot be undone .

A shrink once told me that I am only a victim as long as I allow them to victimize me .....I refuse to be anyones victim ever again ...even if they temporarily victimize me ..once its over I dont have to be their victim now for the rest of my life .......they are not gonna hold my soul ...so they had my stupid body but they are not gonna have the rest of my life ...............



I have since found out that about 4 out of 5 of my friends have also been molested ...so this is more common than many are even aware of ..(they are all about my age ) ......................

You are not alone in what you have been through ...I dont think that makes it any easier for you ...but I wanted you to know that it can be used for the good ..I am able to be a light to my friends and people I meet who have been through it as I have ...they are just amazed to find out that there really is a way to move on ...it just requires that you PUT IT BEHIND YOU except when someone else may need to hear that you too have been through it and you did get on with your life .....and dont let it rule your life anymore ..


Anyway sorry for my ramblings ... just wanted to share with you in case there is something (anything) that I could say that may help you ..



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by Thurisaz
 



From my understanding, God puts us through hard times in our life to learn from those experiences. So no you are not a victim, and no you did not deserve it, it just happened so you may learn from it and move on with your life. It may be hard but you can use this experience to your advantage. You may use this experience to teach other people how to make it through there struggle with sexual abuse and so on. Thank God you are still alive and well and not in a mental home anywhere.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by Thurisaz
 




It's not Karma dear, it's just an idiot condesending hipacrytical world. Karma is what happens to all the people who didn't help you out. Or maybe it is what happens to the legal system which shields children from protection under the practice of not really serving them until they are adults.

Should you forgive them? No, never. Never forgive a rotten sob--what have they done to deserve it? It is not your duty to forgive, and you'll find it alot easier to move on and be helpful to others if you stop toiling over this one. Tell them to take up their forgiveness with their god, and then you will see, what their god really is.

I say, accept that you have been kicked while you were down, you are not 'owing' a participation towards the situation--beyond what YOU need to heal. For instance-you could report them.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by HugmyRek]



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by Thurisaz
 


my perspective.

karma is the sum of all our actions. It creates the present, and present actions wil add-up to the score to create our tomorrow.
we are responsible of it.

when you get child-abused, or also have to undergo most kind of aggressions, it is not about your karma but your aggressor karma only, as he's losing his soul on the way.

we are not responsible of other's people karma. we are not responsible of whatever other can do, even to us.

How we react however remains ours, as long as we are alive at least.

conclusion: just read that as a possible path to overcome aggressions in general and this kind of events children way too often suffer:
turning it into a strenght rather than a thirst for revenge or, as bad, an alienating, non-constructive and basically silly "i deserved it". nobody deserves that.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by teklordz
 


Again, I ask you: Why are you preaching to me? Have I not said exactly what you're saying?

Tell them!

Holy mackerel.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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Here is the deal in a nutshell ..(Non biblical ok)


It is done ...there really is NOTHINg you can do to go back and change it .
They went on with their lives ..(although it will someday come back on them)
You have not went on with your life ..and you really cant until you get over it ....
My suggestion as a (NOn Christain even) would be to just let it go since you can do nothing about it ..
And do not allow it to RUIN the rest of your life by keeping it and constantly thinking about it ..
Toss it out as you would the trash in your closet to make room for new stuff .
(Toss it out of your life of memories and make room the new memories you have up ahead) ..


Everyday is a NEW DAY in my world ...so I make everyday a DIFFERENT DAY than YESTERDAY WAS ....since I cannot change one single thing about what happened yesterday ..BUt I can change my day today and tommorow ................

Hows that ? Nothing biblical and no preaching .........



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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Thank you to all of you who responded. Right now, I am too overwhelmed to respond in detail, but just wanted to thank you. All of the responses are exceptional and I value what has been shared and brought forward. It has given me so much to consider.

Thanks to those who shared their own life experiences here.
I just can't find the words to explain how I feel, the responses have knocked me off my feet, in a good way...

x



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by Thurisaz
 



Your very welcome ....and if you ever need to talk just U2 ....
I hope you will be looking forward to your new life ..because really it is a huge load off and you will feel 100 times better once it is TOSSED OUT.

Be sure and fill us in on how you are doing ok...

GOD BLESS >...or (Nonbiblical) take good care and I wish you well ..lol ...



posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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Metaphysically speaking love and hate are two sides of the same coin. They may seen like opposites, but in fact they both involve high emotion, obsession and attachment.

That type of intense emotion and obsession can rule you for a lifetime if you let it. A lot of religious philosophies talk about “forgiveness”. Realize that is a very important element, not because it makes you a “good person” or because you can learn to “love” the person that abused you, but because it RELEASES you from the intense attachment that comes with hatred.

It has nothing to do with “them”, it is all about you. They might not even remember you exist, however in YOUR mind you are obsessed with them or the experience. To be free from that chain of attachment you have to find a way to “forgive” the person involved, doesn’t mean you have to wish them well, heck you could be fine if they died a horrible torturous death, but you have to find a way to neutralize the emotional hook that they have in your soul.

In your case it seems like you are taking the hatred and anger from that experience and instead of projecting it on the person that abused you, you are turning it into self-hatred. Realize that mindset is common, but it is also very dangerous (you can easily find ways to torture yourself for the rest of your life).

I realize your wounds and pain are much deeper than what most go through, but here is one metaphysical practice that has worked for me in the past, although granted the reasons for my passion/hate were not nearly as deep seated as yours. Buy a gift for the person that you hate. Seriously you buy a gift with the intention of making that person happy, and you think of making them happy as you wrap up the present (to give to them anonymously). In reality it is all about YOUR feelings at the time, you can still be fine if that person got hit by a bus, but you are forcing YOURSELF to change the flow of energy inside of you to be generous to that individual. I have found it helps tremendously.

Now in your case, you might be buying that gift for yourself, or for the little kid that went through that mess. I am not saying it will “fix” all your issues, but it could be a start. I assume you celebrate Christmas, make it a Christmas gift.



[edit on 8-12-2008 by Sonya610]





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