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“It is something that we could have expected from the clues given by the Gospel of John in the NT. That Judas betrays Jesus is a despicable act elsewhere, and he is hated and kills himself for that because he sacrifices Jesus for money. In the Gospel of Judas, Jesus instructs him that although he will be hated, he has a special mission. He has to participate in the divine plan by bringing about the sacrifice of Jesus’ form. He has to bring Jesus’ life on this earth to an end.” – The Lost Gospel, the Quest for the Gospel of Judas Iscariot," by Herbert Krosney.
“According to the Ebionites, Saul’s parents were Gentiles who had not been converted to Judaism; Saul himself, then, was the first of his family to be converted – however, Saul would have been exposed in his early childhood to pagan influences far more than a fully Jewish boy. … He made an abortive attempt to rise in the Pharisee movement; that he enrolled with some Pharisee teacher for awhile – but proved a failure. – Moreover, his being a person of soaring ambition (as his subsequent career shows), he would not be able to endure mediocrity.”
“Onesiphorus saw Paul coming, a man little of stature, thin haired upon the head, crooked in the legs, of good state of body, with eyebrows joining, and nose somewhat hooked…”
“I do not believe the misogynistic Paul, though it is obviously true that the Church which came after him was deeply and incorrigibly misogynistic…”
“…Paul seems a more dominant figure in the NT tradition than Jesus himself, The Jesus of the Gospels, if not the creation of Paul, is in some senses the result of Paul. – The very word ‘gospel,’ like the phrase ‘The NT’ itself, are one which we first read in Paul’s writings – It is for this reason that we can say that Paul, and not Jesus, was – if any one was – the ‘Founder of Christianity.’”
Jesus and Judas are one in the same. The first and last. The left and the Right hand.
In fact after doing some research I have found the ONLY Sunday worship (or at least signs of it) found in the bible is with Paul.
"Instead of the respectable Pharisee of unimpeachable Jewish descent, the friend and peer of James and Peter, we can sense through Epiphanius's garbled account something of the real Paul - the tormented adventurer, threading his way by guile through a series of stormy episodes, and setting up a form of religion that was his own individual creation."
Originally posted by cancerian42
Wow...what an amazing thread! In the church I am forced to go to they follow the bible literally and one day after being interrogated why I didn't like going to church I asked why they went on Sundays rather than on Saturdays (the sabbath day according to the bible). The answer was something about Paul. In fact after doing some research I have found the ONLY Sunday worship (or at least signs of it) found in the bible is with Paul.
We ask of thee, what are thou? - We are Iscariot. The zealot Judas.
In that case, Iscariot, we ask of thee, what does't thou hold in thy right hand? - Daggers and Poisons.
In that case, Iscariot, we ask of thee, what does't thou hold in they left hand? - Thirty silver pieces and a rope.
In that case, Iscariot, what art thou? - We are as apostles, yet not as apostles. As believers, yet not as believers. As adherents, yet not as adherents. As traitors, yet not as traitors.
We art disciples of death. The death disciple group. Only bowing and praying forgiveness of the lord. Only bowing and defeating the enemies of the lord. Wielding our daggers in the night and poisoning the evening meal. We art assassins. The assassin Judas.
When our time comes, we shall cast our thirty silver pieces at the altar and hang thy head from thy rope. Therefore we shall fall into hell in cabal. Lined up in square formation, we seek to do battle with the innumerable demons of hell. Amen ~ Creed of Vatican Section XIII, Iscariot (Hellsing)
But again, this is just a cursory character analysis. Not to say that there might not actually be a point in all this, but I myself am probably just more enamored by the romanticism and tragedy of a loyal Judas figure.
I say this in response to your observation that Paul actually saw "the devil" on the road...as long as gods and devils are part of your equation, you have not left religion behind because they are parts of the same idea. If you want real answers you have to completely leave the box,
then god himself took away Judas's free will if this is the case then Judas was born predamned to hell. But god says every man is born as god with free will so this to me is a contradiction that cannot be resolved.
There is an old eastern saying thatinstructs seekers....if you are seeking the truth, be VERY careful how you ask the question. Because it is the question that will limit your answer
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
The Bible according to MatrixProphet: “The Bible is a lie, within a lie, within the Truth.”
While many skeptics wish to throw the Bible out as nonsense, many literalists take every word as God’s oath. I believe that the truth lies somewhere in between. Even with the fact that there are insurmountable problems with it, I still feel personally, that it was inspired, but for what reason?
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
Jesus and Judas are one in the same. The first and last. The left and the Right hand.
Really good point. Some think that Jesus of Nazareth was not the Christ, but that the real Christ existed in another era.
I am hoping that this thread will open up a lot of potentials. I am always looking to hear a new thought or slant.
Thank you!