McKinnons last stand, page 4

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 12:44 PM

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Originally posted by ashamedamerican
Or the negligent administrators who were too busy stuffing crispy cream donuts in their faces and drinking coffee and doing god only knows what, to have ever actually done their jobs to begin with?

Well I am willing to bet that more than 50% of people who have home or business security systems installed are still using the default code that comes with the install of 1234 or 12369 in the case of ADT

... and just as many people or more have no password on their home or office system or their wireless internet ( I see five of my neighbors that I can use their connection if I wanted)

Yeah thats right now go out and change that code

The crooks get the same operators manual that you get with the system

Its human nature to be sloppy...

Besides here are those NASA scientists we are talking about... trying to figure out what happened to the Rover...

NASA also forgot how they got to the Moon so need to go to scrap yards to reverse engineer old Apollo parts...

I think Gary found NOTHING because the SECRET stuff is not on the Internet. DARPA created the internet then gave it to us because they had something better.

The government uses NiPRNET for sensitive and confidential, SiPRNET for SECRET and JWICS Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System (JWICS pronounced JAYwicks) for the Top Secret stuff, and then there is the 'Global' at the top of the heap... you need only go to Wikipedia to find that out.

IF you have a DoD access card and are initiating point of contact from a .mil site you can use a doorway from the internet... you can go here and knock on the door to see I am telling you the truth, but I guarantee you they will know you are knocking

I also won't give a direct link you need to add the http and the dot

nic dot mil

Here is a JWICS portal

Go ahead and look... they won't bite... just don't be stupid

Gary saw NOTHING... its a smoke screen

I repeat once more Gary's OWN WORDS

Gary says he doesn't know.

"What was the most exciting thing you saw?" I ask.

"I found a list of officers' names," he claims, "under the heading 'Non-Terrestrial Officers'."

"Non-Terrestrial Officers?" I say.

"Yeah, I looked it up," says Gary, "and it's nowhere. It doesnt mean little green men. What I think it means is not earth-based. I found a list of 'fleet-to-fleet transfers', and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet."

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."

"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"

"I guess so," says Gary.

"What were the ship names?"

"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."

SOURCES

If this is what you defenders call a "Hero" you have serious issues

...---...

[edit on 7-12-2008 by zorgon]

v3_exceed

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 01:12 PM

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Well, there really seems to be a whole lot of opinions about this, but I don't see anyone actually referring to the time line that this crime actually happened in. (allegedly conducted between February 2001 and March 2002)

Lets zoom back to 2000-2002 for a moment, y2k just passed with little event, unless you were running COBAL. Windows 98 was still prevalent, and windows 2000 was still considered a "secure" operating system. Linux was maturing, but slowly and cyber crimes were still very much in the realm of science fiction to the majority of the public.

What most people don't realize, is that early versions of windows had very little real security. In large environments, with windows domain controllers, there are 2 sets of accounts.
1) The domain account, and
2) the machine account.
When you have a large group of computers 200+/- it is often that you will use a weak or blank password when setting up the machine, (cloning wasn't mainstream at the time) and a harder password with the domain accounts. Dial up internet was still pretty common in those days, so much so that many phone systems of the day had a "data" port where you could plug in.

The reason that you would use a weak password for the machine account is so that you could send network drone over to resolve issues on the local machine without giving up domain access to said drone. Now when you hack a machine account, you don't have access to the domain, but you do get whatever is on the local machine. (also spx/ipx and netbui were installed by default on windows machines both are broadcast based protocols, just because you don't use them, doesn't mean they don't actually work.)

This was back in the day when personal firewalls and the windows firewall did not exist. So logging onto a dial up connection was "security through obscurity", which is no security at all. Although NASA would have a very good connection to the net, (T1, T3 were considered pretty fast at the time) It is still very plausible that some people would be using dial up. Anyone with networking experience would be able to tell you how hard it is to get people to stop using dial up at their office, back in the day. So gaining access would have been trivial.

Now did Gary commit a crime? Yes. He admitted he committed the crime. Should he be prosecuted, yes he should be held accountable for his admitted actions. However, he should be held accountable under the laws and agreements in effect at that time. The US Patriot act should have no authority on this case imho.

The reason we have different penalties for different laws, is because not all crimes are the same. Hacking a computer is NOT like taking a child, or like breaking into a home or like stealing a car. True, it might feel like it to the victim, but it really is entirely a different situation. In 2001, I seriously doubt that the USA would have extradited anybody if they had hacked into your network at your office.

Which brings me to the real point of all of this. If a person breaks into your home, but finds you producing kiddie porn videos, or beating your wife, I would think that when that person EXPOSES your crime as well as their own shouldn't BOTH of these crimes be prosecuted? So If NASA is in fact hiding zero point energy, alternative fuels or other humanity enhancing resources, they should also be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

Lastly, I have 14 years computer networking experience in large wan/lan environments. I have employed many mcp, mcse, novell and unix admins and currently run my own business as an isp. We get attacked on our networks daily, so I have no love for hackers, but I do think the punishment should fit the crime.

Thanks for reading
..Ex

ps. irregardless is NOT a word, use of non words diminishes your position.

zorgon

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 02:17 PM

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Originally posted by v3_exceed
What most people don't realize, is that early versions of windows had very little real security.

ARGGGGG I did the time line in context of how long its been and Gary is still free... but I completely missed the Windows tech level issue

Thanks

That is a real DOH moment

Awoken One

posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 05:30 PM

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I have been following this case as I feel it would be great injustice if McKinnon was extradited to the USA. I am glad it is getting more public awareness, especially of the treaty that signed away our human rights with the non reciprocal agreement.

Good luck Gary, we're thinking of you...

MarrsAttax

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 03:51 AM

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Regardless of the rights or wrongs of what he did I think what most people in the UK find abhorrent in this case is the completely disproportionate sentence that Gary might suffer in the US, with a figure 60 years being bandied about in the press.

60 years? That's more than some multiple murderer's get in the UK.

What also annoys me is the way our politicians and judges have seemed to roll over and capitulate with the US' extradition request without trying to obtain a more justifiable and proportionate sentence if he is found guilty.

funky monk

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 04:27 AM

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Originally posted by v3_exceed
What most people don't realize, is that early versions of windows had very little real security.

mmmm, good point. Now that has been brought up can you really consider what Garry did as hacking? I mean... he used default passwords to gain access to the computers so you might be able to argue that it was the responsibility of the govt/nasa to secure their computers correctly and thus the owners of the computers would have to take some sort of responsibility for any damage to the computers (if any).

TSOM87

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 08:29 AM

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Since WW2 the UK has bent over so many times for the USA. Gordon Brown should dump this law, and let Gary do his time in barlinne lol. At the end of the day he commited the crime in the UK!!

What makes me laugh as well is that if an American had done that to MOD, RAF, ect, the American could not be tried over here in the UK. He would be protected by the America and able to do his time there.

atsbeliever

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 10:48 AM

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Don't forget to ask yourselves WHY its 60 years..I truly think the UFO factor in this has caused it to be so severe..and that should worry you more.

They absolutely do-not-want other kids/hackers on the hunt for ANYTHING Ufo related and it scares them s***less that some smart cookie might actually find something to prove the case and so this outrageous sentence has been used to scare off anyone else..

with a figure 60 years being bandied about in the press.

60 years? That's more than some multiple murderer's get in the UK.

What also annoys me is the way our politicians and judges have seemed to roll over and capitulate with the US' extradition request without trying to obtain a more justifiable and proportionate sentence if he is found guilty.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by atsbeliever]

WatchTheWorld

posted on Dec, 8 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by Edn

I'm sorry but that's like saying that if a burglar kicks my back door in then i should thank him for pointing out the flaw. He still broke the law and should be prosecuted.

Hahaha liked that one

I agree with some people here that what he has done is illegal and he should be punished accordingly but i also think it's great that he's done something that all of us would want to do but havn't got the balls too..

Way to take a stand eh

atsbeliever

posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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But be PROPORTIONATE to the crime, he's getting sentenced like he MURDERED someone>?!! The crime is severe I would say 10-15 years and a steep money penalty is in order. The people who left the gates 'open' should also be up on charges if it was so easy an amateur 'hacker' could walk into government computers so easily.

I still maintain that its because of what he found the pentality is insanaly out of proportion and they (the gov) want to totally & utterly dissuade others from even thinking about looking for UFO material, aside from the hacking issue.
Im thinking it may be an outsider like a chinese hacker who may actually find and show UFO stuff they find to the world. Won't that be interesting.

Originally posted by WatchTheWorld

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by Edn

I'm sorry but that's like saying that if a burglar kicks my back door in then i should thank him for pointing out the flaw. He still broke the law and should be prosecuted.

Hahaha liked that one

I agree with some people here that what he has done is illegal and he should be punished accordingly but i also think it's great that he's done something that all of us would want to do but havn't got the balls too..

Way to take a stand eh

VicSage

posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 10:05 PM
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If he really did see anything good, it is a shame the idea was toking up while doing so. Potheads.... I swear.

Anonymous ATS

posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by atsbeliever

hey believer, you may get your wish. 2002 chinese hackers stole 20 terabites from the u.s. I also read something recently that said America is losing the cyberwar because the chinese and ruskies were hacking their systems. I don't
hear the u.s. gov going after those hackers like mac kinnon

Kr0n0s

posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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Im not a fan of the Govt at all and I did some low level hacking in my time, years ago so I know what a rush it can be to get inside a system that youre not supposed to be inside.
He got caught being somewhere he wasnt supposed to be, its not the Pentagons fault and its not NASA's fault.
It makes no difference if there was lax security on the systems or not, he telneted into their system deliberately, not by accident and he performed the commands to gain root access to computers for the Defense Dept of a very large and powerful Nation and heres what screwed him, HE GOT CAUGHT!
The idiot even admitted he didnt use multiple proxies to try and mask his IP address, he admitted that he did this not once or twice but several times over the course of a few months to two years.
I just read his interview on project camelot, so i didnt just make up what I just said, these are his words.

The kid was lazy, didnt try to cover his tracks and now hes paying for it, its that simple and again, those are his words not mine.
One thing I can say in his defense is that I think the US Govt is full of you know what, when they claim he caused 3/4 of a million dollars worth of damage.
I really feel for the guy though because hes not gonna get a fair trial if/when he ever does get tried here in the US.
They are going to nail him with everything they can to make an example of him.
Damn, I remember about that same time period, even I wanted to try and screw around in .mil and .gov servers but I wouldve been using at least 10 high level proxies scattered all over the world but that probably wouldnt have even helped..
Wow, Im glad I grew out of that phase
but we had fun with it while it lasted..

atsbeliever

posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 11:59 PM
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True but in all honesty and using common sense, don't you think there is another motive for such a high sentence and trumped up damage's they claim..don't you think it scared them s***less that he was actively looking for UFO evidence. Not nuclear secrets, not the latest stealth aircraft data..but UFO's. I think that alone scared them more than anything, hence this dis-proportionate sentence & reaction.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Im not a fan of the Govt at all and I did some low level hacking in my time, years ago so I know what a rush it can be to get inside a system that youre not supposed to be inside.
He got caught being somewhere he wasnt supposed to be, its not the Pentagons fault and its not NASA's fault.

They are going to nail him with everything they can to make an example of him.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by atsbeliever]

Kr0n0s

posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by atsbeliever

Actually, again according to his statements, he was not looking for UFO's when he started dong this, he was looking for some other things, one of them being free energy.

Project Camelot Interview

GM: I can't actually remember when that incident took place. I was doing this every night, all night practically, for two years. I'd not really looked after myself very much, so dates and things are a bit mangled.

KC: So this was a real passion of yours, in other words?

GM: Oh yeah. Yeah.

KC: Was the passion for information related to UFOs and hidden technology? Was that your passion? Or what would you say is your passion in that regard?

GM: I passionately believe that we should all have this technology. And not so much, obviously, if you could confirm the existence of extraterrestrials and their contact with us, then that would be good. But to me it was more important to have this free energy system.

KC: OK. So what did you find out?

GM: About free energy, nothing. Unfortunately, I got nothing at all.

But the UFO thing: it may sound circumstantial to some, but as far as I'm concerned it's proven. As part of the Disclosure Project, Donna Hare - a NASA photographic scientist who had a Top Secret clearance and was in Building 8 at Johnson Space Center - she says in her testimony that one of her colleagues who was doing some photographic work invited her over to look at it. And she saw high-res satellite images of half a k[ilometer] above the treetops - I think it was like a white disk.

And she at first thought: Oh; it's a blob in the emulsion, you know, some kind of fault with the photographic process. And he said: well, look, you know, blobs in the emulsion don't have perfectly formed shadows going in the same direction as the trees? Etcetera, etcetera. All the detail was there. And she basically was saying that they had this whole base in Building 8 for airbrushing out UFOs on a regular basis, because they then sell on their images to universities and the like.

And having been all over other NASA installations already - I asumed the blank password scanning method will work the same at Johnson Space Center - and it did. Once I was in there, I used various network commands to strip out the machines that were in Building 8. And I got on to those. And the very first one I was on literally had what she said. I can't remember if it was "Filtered" and "Raw", Processed" and "Unprocessed," but there were definitely folders whereby there was a transformation in the data taking place between one and the other.

These folders were full of images in a proprietary NASA format, or in a format I'd never seen before: no jpegs or gifs. They were also 200 to 300 megabytes in size. And being on a 56K dial-up modem, there was no way I was going to download that at five minutes per megabyte.

Then somewhere down the line he stumbled on a spreadsheet with a listing, including ranks, of "non-terrestrial officers"

[edit on 12/11/2008 by Kr0n0s]

xbranscombex

posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:47 AM
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Evening ATS!

Listen, I think this would be a perfect oppourtunity for release of Evidence.

"Okay, your Honour.. I am being accused of looking at photos of _______. Can we present these photos to the Jury, as evidence to what I was shown?"

I mean in court they show video, if part of evidence and case trial, of pedophilia to the jurors to convict.

xBRINGxONx2012x

posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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Honestly, I see posts on here about people being assassinated because they decide not to side with banks these days and crazy other assassination stories...if this guy found, or if NASA even thought he might have found something about UFOs or anything and he has this mental condition, why would they not stage a suicide or somehow "get him"?
It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if NASA or the government really does know anything about ETs or UFOs.