SHTF Communication...

Originally posted by Jkd Up
reply to post by Velvet Death

 

Very goood point. And they do have them. But again, is that risking your safety by talking open channel like that?

I think I'll just be on CB Channel 3 and invite anyone. When I stat throwing around RPGs people might get the point *lmao*

They can triangulate your location with 3 satellites just
like they do with GPS very quickly.

So they will know where you are if you active xmit RF.

If you want to be below the radar so to speak comm wise
the only sure way is radio silence, and that is my plan.

I will listen, but I will not be xmitting unless my life depends on it.

Talk to all your bug out buddies in advance and set a few rally
points, maybe certain ones for certain events.

For example the deep caves if an EMP satellite goes off and all
electronics in North America go dead.

If you live in rural small town america and it is just something
going on in Big Cities call ur friends on your cell phone or CB
and talk in plain text.

If your worried about ppl hearing what your saying, just meetup
face to face, or if you have net access use encrypted email or
chat.

Hushmail has free encrypted email services among others.

If they decide to round ppl up they will be coming door to door
for anyone that signed up for anything remotely fringe on the net.

So when the balloon goes up, your gonna need to leave.

That is my plan.

Good Luck to you all !

Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by Jkd Up

 

Well since a specific Situation X has not been mentioned then, can I then offer the following suggestions:-

Mobile (cell) phone
Land line telephone
Satellite Comms Unit
PC Internet or Skype
CB Radio
HAM Radio

A cheesy way to do crypto comms over the net is fire up hamachi,
an encrypted VPN, and then talk over ventrillo thru hamachi.

As I said in my other post for easy encrypted email just make
a Hushmail account, it is 2,048 bit encryption.

Although Morse code is a means of transmitting information using a simple on/off tone, to say it is digital is a little misleading. The modulated and transmitted signal is the issue here and can be transmitted by both digital and analogue transceivers.

However Morse transmissions, because of their simple on/off single tone nature, are very robust, and can be heard and understood over circuits where there is a great deal of degradation of the signal. For example, imagine having to understand a faint voice broadcast over a very bad telephone line, compared to just having to recognise a single tone. This robustness is what makes Morse so useful in survival situations, and why it has proved so resilient in the face of the very advanced communications technology we have today.

However, unless you are prepared to start learning and using it now to become proficient in it before it becomes necessary, it is unlikely you will be able to use it should the time come.

Radio communications are inherently insecure, and also broadcast your position to people you may not wish to be aware of your presence. For all the encryption in the world may mean that the enemy does not understand the intelligence of your transmission, you are still lighting up your position like the proverbial christmas tree.

Also, it does not require satellite based equipment to fix your location. Mobile, terrestrial equipment can do it, and very quickly too. It does not require lots of equipment in various positions to triangulate your position. There is equipment that can locate you within seconds of you beginning to transmit, if they are looking for people using common bands, i.e. HF/VHF. Also not to mention that the large antennas required for HF comms could attract the wrong sort of attention.

Personally, if you are planning on staying put, being self-sufficient, and keeping as low a profile as possible, the small return on the risk of pressing the transmit button doesn't stand up.

As for power, it is the transmitter side of the radio which consumes the vast majority of the power, using it to inefficiently radiate energy in all directions (in most set-ups). The receiver uses very little power, basically just enough to drive an audio amplifier in order to make the received transmissions audible. Wind up radios illustrating the point that they do not consume a great deal of energy. Having a radio set up is not a bad idea, just to listen in though, personally.

In all honesty, the idea of a wide area radio network for an underground resistance movement is a nice idea, but would be very difficult to implement if not done before a sit x and would carry with it a lot of risk.

A better approach in my opinion would be to organise within your local survivalist community and set up a series of local closed-circuit systems that are secure from outside interference. It doesnt even have to be high-tech, even something simple such as pre-arranged signal or layout of stones to say, 'safe to enter' or 'have left this location.'

[edit on 9-12-2008 by CallSign]

Gotta go oldschool and use smoke signals and signal fires. Even loud things such as drums or bells can be used as communication devices over distances

its short range up 100 miles if both stations are on hill tops but very secure.
because to be intercepted the would have to be in the line of sight.
but its also line of sight for the user.

www.arrl.org...

Callsign is quite correct in their post about not needing satellite equipment to track a signal transmitted. This can be done from ground based units as well as air based..aircraft...and quickly too.

I dont know if any of you followed closely the early fighting in Afganistan and Iraq. What one senses quickly is that the Muslims learned very quickly not to turn on a cell phone..or even a satellite phone or two way radios..even from close to the caves. It was an invite to death. Rockets or some kind of guided munitions were soon to follow. THe media nor the military did not directly state this but it is not difficult to read between the lines on how they found many of them. Some of you might want to keep this in mind if you want to remain hidden.

Correct also about encrypted two way radio. While they may need time to decrypt the signal ...the location to the transmitted signal can be determined quickly.

This leaves you with a blinking light, Sound powered phones or runners as a more secure method. Blinking lights will not work long distance in bad weather...since it is line of sight with which to begin. Sound powered phones have the problem of carrying enough line to go any distance. Runners...well that is obvioius.

Something to think about.

Thanks,
Orangetom

This is something I have actually thought about for quite a while now, and here are my thoughts on a few types of conventional comms along with their pros and cons:

First of before I go into each of the major (popular) types of potential communication systems we have to think of a few things such a "what actually is Sit X?", "who am I trying to communicate with?", "what dangers are involved in Type A of communications instead of Type B?"

Mobile/Cell Phone

Situation:
Any situation that doesnt involve a breakdown of GSM/CDMA/TDMA/3G etc. networks
Who:
Anyone who's number you have
Pros:
Easy to use, mobile, physically consealable and undetectable, LONG range
Cons:
You are communicating via a system with MANY ways of being noticed by telcos, government etc, traceable due to 'handoffs' and 'handovers' between towers
Safety guidelines:
Don't use a phone linked to your details, handset and SIM if applicable, Both your SIM and Handset have unique IDs - my bet is to use an old mobile that is a hand-me-down from friends or bought at yard sales and research on how to change IMEI numbers using a laptop and a cable, then get a bunch of prepaid SIMs and have them registered to 'alternative IDs'

CBs:

Situation:
Anything where Mobile and Landline infrastructure has been compromised or destroyed
Who:
Anyone in a relatively small range, such as 'bug-out buddies', other survivors
Pros:
Easy to use, mobile, physically consealable and undetectable, independant of any external infrastructure
Cons:
SHORT range, open to all listening in on the freqs
Safety guidelines:
Use CTCSS codes - only useful for people within your group that know the sub channel codes before the Sit X

VOIP/Internet:

Situation:
Political upheaval or censorship
Who:
Anyone globally
Pros:
Anonymous if used correctly/wisely, global audience
Cons:
Still eventually traceable
Safety guidelines:
Use and master proxies, never stay online for long periods of time, use public WiFi hotspots - crack them if need be

HAM:
Situation:
Anything where Mobile and Landline infrastructure has been compromised or destroyed
Who:
Anyone else with the right equipment
Pros:
Independant of external Infrastruture, can be encrypted if used in conjuction with laptops - and from what I hear from a buddy - you can access the internet (although SLOOOOOW) - WOULD LOVE MORE INFORMATION ON THIS!
Cons:
Somewhat bulky equipment, expensive, limited number of people able to use equipment effectively
Safety guidelines:
I'm guessing a 10 metre antenna pumping at least 5w of energy would seem interesting to authorities

Smoke Signals:

Situation:
EMPs or other devices that can cause electronic means defunct
Who:
Anyone in the same general area as you (horizon distance I'd say)
Pros:
You need fire in the wilderness to stay warm and cook your dinner, who not chat to the others out there too?
Cons:
it's SMOKE - anyone else in the area can see this and if theres smoke theres fire and someone who lit it
Safety guidelines:
Not sure on this one really....don't burn yourself? :p

Morse:

Situation:
Bug-out time, and out in the wilderness or communicating from building to building
Who:
Anyone line of sight (if using light/smoke as the Dots and Dashs)
Pros:
Lots of people know the basics of Morse, if you don't its ALWAYS handy to learn (...---...)
Cons:
Hope the person you are flashing is on your side and watching
Safety guidelines:
Careful who else can see/hear your comms
---------------------------------------------------------------


I might get into some other forms of communication later - such as trails, tagging of trees/buildings etc.

please note, I'm not an expert by any means, its just some stuff I've thought about from time to time. If I'm wrong, let me know - if you can elaborate on anything PLEASE DO!

reply to post by Zeeko


Good post, don't forget semaphore. It is not that difficult to learn. It can also be used at night. However, it is not as secure as morse code with light. Especially infrared light.

Carrier pigeons were used at one time and even by the Navy. Don't know much about it though. Perhaps a lost art?

Morse is most defineitley a digital mode. There is no audio modulation of a carrier. It worls the sameway any of the other digotal modes do just with the least number of tones: 1. The advantage of morse is that you don't need a digital interface (which you allude to) to create the tones. But you can send digital with an 'analog' transceiever. But in all cases (except morse) you'd need an interface to do that work.

Zeeko... you don't need a big tower with a beam antenna to work HAM (or more specifically HF) frequencies. Many of us have very effective stations using multi-band wire antennas. In my case, I have a wire antenna in the trees on my property. You have to look really hard to even find it.

In my opinion, in a true SHTF situation, the authorities (and everyone else for that matter) is going to have alot more on their respective plates than triangulating radio stations. Government resources are going to be stretched exceptionally thin. However, stations making encrypted transmissions are going to attract attention pretty quickly since they will be seen as potential security risks.

I have a number of pieces of various comm gear. But in a SHTF situation, my multi band, battery powered transceiver will allow me to communicate and monitor the UHF, VHF and HF bands --- including CB. It will provide tha ability to monitor domestic commercial, public safety and military frequencies as well as foreign SW. A rig like mine would cost you around $700 used.

reply to post by jtma508


Thanks for the clarification on size of antennas, as I said Im not well versed in that kind of comms. Can you elighten me at all on the use of HAM/HF (not sure of its proper designation) and connecting it to the internet? Muchly appreaciated

The other day down at an electronics store I found a kids toy of sorts that is essentially and Infra Red 2-way pager for short distance text messaging - I picked one up (only about $20) and am slowly looking into improving the range of the devices as these could really come in handy with comms to a buddy at short range without being audible.

reply to post by Zeeko


First, you have to assume the internet is still up when the SHTF. Depending upon the nature of the S that's HTF that may not be the case. Connecting to the net via HF is doable (many HAM's have these gateways setup) but you need to understand that the bandwidth is very small for HF. Larger for VHF but still not a fraction of what you use day-to-day to access the net. No way are you going to open graphical webpages over radio. Typically, you'd use this setup to access the web to retrieve text messages, small files adn such. More of a mailbox of bulletin board system really. Bandwidth and connection speed is the issue. On HF you're dealing with 300 baud (1200 on VHF/UHF). Think internet circa 1984.

Here's some basics to ponder.

Originally posted by _Volt_

Originally posted by Anuubis
Got any ideas for a code? Oh ya i forgot about semen being taught morse code.

We could use Klingon

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Anuubis]

How about creating a secret club where entry is strictly monitored and teach people a new form of language to communicate with there. While serving real ale, nibbles and lots of different kinds of spirits and sushi/sashimi? Does anoyne like Sake?

That is a good idea, except for the fact that the government can infiltrate anything. If you had a thorough way of doing background checks then it would work. You could do it online if you had some really good security software. As long as you keep it on a low profile so as not to attract the attention of the NSA, then they would think we were just a bunch of paranoid crackpots.

I think what we need to figure out is a form of communications that doesn't require much,if any, power. Something that doesn't rely on morse code. I just asked a buddy of mine if they still teach it to all branches of the military and he said he thinks so. He was in the army, just got out of the corps, and is now in the national guard. He said he was taught it.

Originally posted by Northern Raider
...
Dead letter drop = pre arranged and agreed location where you can leave messages and letter for others to pick up as and when needed, A physical notice board for want of a better description, often found at RZ's

A stealthy noticeboard system could be easily created using BoB-portable gear such as this..



..A handheld UV blacklight (preferrably LED) and UV marker pens.

I'd look at using public phone boxes as the bulletin board, as they're found all over the UK in the most rural location, and should still work during any sit-x as they are linked to a secured public communications network.

From there you can log messages/resource location coordinates from point/phonebox no. or grid ref contact details of other RZ point groups/navigation logs/etc. and left in a weatherproof spot inside the phonebox, and can be read/updated by anyone else in the know but invisible to anyone else without a UV lighsource



[edit on 10-12-2008 by citizen smith]

When SHTF you can bet that satellite access will be not be available to civilians. Internet access will be lost for the most part. Ham Radio Operator will be using Digial mode communications because it takes less time to communicate large amounts of information point to point. Short Wave radio in the High Frequency bands will be used for long range communication, national and world wide, for civilian use mostly thourgh Ham Radio Operators. The Ham Radio community already has this plan in place. You can get for information through ARRL, the national association for Amateur Radio,ARRL. The Ham Radio Operators also have their own satellites in orbit. They are called OSCARs (Orbitiing Satellites Carrying Amateur Radio). They use VHF and UHF frequencies. They have the upgraded satellites call the OSCAR-E (Echo Project) for enchanced digial mode applacation in various modes including PSK-31 on a 10 Meter Single Side Band uplink. The Echo Project started in 2004. But their use is very limited, its' not like using the more advanced satellites we have now.

Originally posted by Anuubis
I think what we need to figure out is a form of communications that doesn't require much,if any, power. Something that doesn't rely on morse code. I just asked a buddy of mine if they still teach it to all branches of the military and he said he thinks so. He was in the army, just got out of the corps, and is now in the national guard. He said he was taught it.

What if we came up with our own morse code? SNail mailed a copy to each of those who were blessed with this information?

The transmission would appear as a broken or gibberish morse code transmission.

It's not quite that simple. Any code is going to have predictable patterns embedded in it. The NSA (and others) routinely monitor radio transmissions looking for encoded transmissions. After all, if there was an entity trying to do something untoward they would more than likely be communicating in code. These kinds of transmissions, therefore, attract the greatest attention. Their systems are even capable of detecting 'plain language' codes. The data mining behind this styuff is cutting edge and no code we're going to develop is going to circumvent that. In a SHTF sceanrio the government is going to be particulalry vigilant because we will be in a more susceptible state.

reply to post by Jkd Up

That is a good idea. As long as no one uses it before TSHTF. I think it will be fairly safe afterwards, depending on how structured the government still is. But all security agencies will be concerned more about outside threats than a bunch of survivalist' hangin out in the woods.

reply to post by Anuubis


Maybe communications could be coded like that and then be only for meet places and time. Given a short window, the maneuver would be over and done before the code could be broke and acted upon. Also, not involving any of our safe havens.

reply to post by Jkd Up

Keeping it short and sweet is a good idea no matter what. You got any ideas on a code? Or anyone else reading this?