Mainstrean "christians" worship pagan Idols, including christmas trees

reply to post by FlyersFan


Well I disagree with your assessment of Jeremiah 10:1-5 or so. It says do not do as the heathen does and cut down a evergreen tree and decorate it with silver and gold...

This is an ancient tradition from Tammuz worship. Tammuz self castrated himself, and then died at 40 by a wild boar (pig). He was supposedly reborn as the Sun-god and they started the tradition of the evergreen tree and the silver and gold balls to represent his self castration. And the 40 days of lent if for the 40 years he lived and the eating of the Easter Ham is symbolic of killing the Boar that killed Tammuz...

Do what you think is best, I just try to serve God as the Bible says too, and I know I aint perfect so I cannot make you do things my way, nor would I try to.

I will only say Happy holidays too you and yours whether it be Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa or whatever...

reply to post by theindependentjournal



Your wrong i know there is seven feast like God created the heaven and the earth in 6 days and he rested the seventh. Thats the seven feasts.

The seven feasts are used to explain something else. Like the end times and the second comming of christ.

The three feast are something else. Read again. But we will forfill all the feasts. As God is forfilling the three first feasts which he gave the Jews.


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by spy66


I don't understand your comment about 3 feasts I guess. Yes the Feasts are symbolic of Jesus coming and his second coming, very good that you know that much, a lot don't.

Kudos!!!

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by spy66

 

I don't understand your comment about 3 feasts I guess. Yes the Feasts are symbolic of Jesus coming and his second coming, very good that you know that much, a lot don't.

Kudos!!!

Well it all starts with the three feast which God gave to the Jews. If we fulfill them we will go on to the next 4. So the feasts are what we should pay attention to. Its what God wants us to pay attention to. Its all about our future.

That's why it's important to listen to what Jesus is telling us in the Bible. He is trying to tell us and teach us something about these feasts. And why they are so important.

The feast are like prophesies that will happen as time ticks by. And what this tells us is that we shouldn't worship Jesus es birth,death or any other thing. Other then what Jesus is trying to tell us. Jesus is not realy telling us to worship anything, but if we like to we should worship God and nothing else.
Jesus is telling us to have faith in God and to trust him. But do we need to worship God to show faith and trust. Dont you think God could tell anyway.

God never told Adam and Eve that they should worship him! Or did he?

God never told Cain and Abel that they had to give a offering to him did he?



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

This thread has turned into a sling fest. I can no longer be a part of it. I know we all interpret scripture differently, but if we can't do it in a civil manner it is fruitless. I am not perfect. I was only trying to show scripture for what and how I believe. I appologise if I offended anyone as that was not my intent.

Whew! All this talk of a man NAMED Jesus. Well, I would love to see one scrap of evidence that a man with this exact name ever lived in those times. IF, and it's a mighty big if, such a man did in fact exist, his name was most likely something like Yeshvea bin Joseph or something like that. If you of the Christian faith are so adamant about it, then why invent a false God, and then worship him like he was a God?... when in fact he was not a god at all, he was a man. If anyone care to present such evidence, please do not post Bible quotes, for we all know the origins of that book, and of the many books that we left out.

reply to post by autowrench


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by darkelf

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you

If Peter substantiates the writings of Paul, who are we to deny that he taught the Word?

You leave out the clarification of what Peter is saying.....lets look at all of the texts there...

15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

In verse 16 Peter is saying that paul is teaching hard to understand things which "fool" the unlearned unto thier own "destruction"..........

Peter is condeming paul for false teaching, read the entire passage beginning with the "subject" paul, then follow it to the warning in verse 17...
17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked

Peter is condeming pauls teaching as leading people astray.......

the bible is full of precedence as to whether things like ¨christmas¨ are acceptable for christians to participate in.

first, you have the isrealites when they came out of egypt. they agree not to worship idols, then first chance they got, they made a golden calf.

what is particularly interesting in that passage is the fact they made toe calf to signify GOD. meaning they thought they were paying respect to god himself.

exodus 32:[5] And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
[6] And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

¨LORD´is a place keeper for ¨YHWH¨

in effect they were infact ¨worshipping¨ GOD the the almighty. not some pagan god.

however we see that latter in the chapter, GOD did not find this acceptable. infact, he was quite angry about it.

what does this teach us?

well, for one thing, its not just WHO you are worshiping, but also HOW.

one could reason that a celebration like christmas is no big deal because you or the church has decided that this holiday is now about jesus, but this doesnt garantee god´s approval of it.

jeroboam is another example of worshiping god in a disapproving way. after solomon died, the kindom of isreal split. 10 tribes to the north and 2 tribe to the south.

the southern kingdom held jerusalem, and according to the law, this ment that if people wanted to worship god correctly, they still had to travel to the southern kingdom.

jeroboam, who was king of the northern tribes had a different idea. he sent up 2 golden calfs, one to the north and another to the south in bethel. then he man priests of people who werent levi. he also made festivals up to honor the ¨sons of isreal¨

1kings 12:[26] And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David:
[27] If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah.
[28] Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
[29] And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan.
[30] And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan.
[31] And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi.
[32] And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.
[33] So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.

what he did was basically take the spirit of the law and he changed it alittle. instead of going to the temple, you have choices. he still had priest, just the wasnt the requirement of them being from levi.

not long after, god showed his disapproval through a prophet.

calf worship, like christmas, is taken from foreign rituals. whether the calf worship the isrealites dabbled in was taken from egypt or from chaldea or even from the neighbors who also worshipped calfs in their ¨baal¨worship, the point remains, taking a custom and ¨declaring it holy¨ doesnt work.

if that was the case with the isrealites, then why would it be any different for the christians?

why would christians participate in events and customs that started out as rituals to pagan gods?

Originally posted by miriam0566

why would christians participate in events and customs that started out as rituals to pagan gods?

Because the pagan based catholic church has told the "sheep" they speak for God on earth and have the "right" to change God's commandments and will.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Because the pagan based catholic church has told the "sheep" they speak for God on earth and have the "right" to change God's commandments and will.

thats why its important find the truth. its important to actually read the bible.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by heliosprime
Because the pagan based catholic church has told the "sheep" they speak for God on earth and have the "right" to change God's commandments and will.

thats why its important find the truth. its important to actually read the bible.

In an earlier post you made a profound statement about "is it acceptable to God". This can not be underestimated. Just because man "thinks" he is doing something "holy" does not make it so in the Lords eyes. He tells us pretty specifically what is acceptable.

Too often man pretends something is "good enough" and the all loving god they are taught will overlook there actual lack of effort, and "lukewarm" attitude. The attitude "he will understand" really does not fly.........it is up to man to "make every effort" consitent with God's will not for God to "understand" man's intent....

Originally posted by heliosprime
Too often man pretends something is "good enough" and the all loving god they are taught will overlook there actual lack of effort, and "lukewarm" attitude. The attitude "he will understand" really does not fly.........it is up to man to "make every effort" consitent with God's will not for God to "understand" man's intent....

just to kind of add to your point....

i think sometimes people leave out the possibility that they are disagreeing with god. i think we all do it from time to time, theres that one commandment or action by god that we dont fully understand and that we disagree with, and we say ¨no, that cant be right?¨

for some it leads to a complete lack of faith (just look at the ¨god is a serial killer¨ thread) but sometimes it leads to a view that is more acceptable to them.

any person who is god fearing would not want to disagree with god, the idea repulses them, however somethings that requires a serious open minded examination of what the bible says. the truth will set you free, but that doesnt mean you will always like the truth.

my friends got really upset with me when i decided to stop celebrating certain holidays and they used all kinds of arguments to convince me otherwise.

- great time for the family (which ironically i have none except for my friends)
- time of good will (a walk through the mall watching people fight over gifts tells me thats rubbish)
- time to reflect on jesus (shouldnt we be doing that all the time?)

still i chose not too realizing that just because everyone else is doing it doesnt mean that my worship would be pure

Reading the bible, as I have done, does not make me wish to act in any manner like what was expected of people. Jesus is the only sane presence I have found in that book, and I believe the rest is political and social mores and control, with some borrowed myths and legends that surround certain ets, such as Enki and Enlil. But, all that aside, I've read many mysterious threads on various forums, all alluding not only to the political purposes for choosing the dates for events, but also the reasons why they chose pagan type days, which in a sense was their twisted Babolynian egos imagining that they were corrupting the Christians who were being taught to serve and be humble and poor. After all these years, its moot. It doesn't matter. Thats what I meant earlier by them digging pits for others. The others escaped, with joy and service and they fell in the pits themselves. Whatever conspiracy is waged against people, they have transformed it into a sacred, spiritual day. And even athiests who still observe Christmas, tree and all, into a warm and loving family celebration.