Gun Ownership...Q's & Worries

We don't own any guns, as we've never had any interest in either hunting or shooting.
But, with the way things are going, I'm re-thinking having one.
Not even neccessarily for safety, although that is key, but if ever the need to hunt for food arose.

However, I have questions and worries about gun ownership:
Mainly....

I'm afraid that at some point in the future registered gun owners are going to have to give them up. Or will be targeted to be watched.

I do NOT want to be on a list of people who get their home searched for their weapons.

My dad and 2 of my brothers are registered gun owners.
I asked one of them what they would do if a gun seizure was enacted.
He said he'd immediately list them as stolen, and then hide them.

I'm not even sure what I'm asking in this thread...I guess I'm asking for:

Thoughts on how or whether to have a rifle gun w/out being registered
Thoughts on if a gun will even be neccessary
Thoughts on what you would do if the right to own a gun was nullified
Thoughts on if it will be dangerous to be a registered gun owner in the future

I'm a little scared, actually, for the people who are registered gun owners.
I've got this sinking feeling about the US and the 2nd ammendment in the future.

Its your right to own and bare firearms so I so go ahead and do it even if its just one, for food go with a high quality rifle with common ammo rounds.

Defense: AR15 is a common one thats currently flying off the shelf, I assume can be used for hunting of larger animals.

How to stay away from registeration 1) Some gun shows where you would buy them 2) Personal Sales person to person

Guns are always helpful in many ways so and yes you might have to one day use it for self defense and defense of family and for food hunting of game animals or humans if you desire hahahahaa (joke)

If they rid our right to own weapons and try to take them by force. Many will be hid and reported stolen or sold to someone on the street with no receipt. Possible massive civil uprising and the forces will be destroyed by the people

I personally own: Pistol, Shotgun, Semi-Auto Rifle (in the new weapons ban)

Following quotes originally posted by tgillie

I do NOT want to be on a list of people who get their home searched for their weapons.

If it comes to that point, I think all private residences would be systematically searched, so, registered gun owner or not, your home will get searched.

Thoughts on how or whether to have a rifle gun w/out being registered

My thought, not recommending, your quote:

He said he'd immediately list them as stolen, and then hide them.

...

I'm a little scared, actually, for the people who are registered gun owners.
I've got this sinking feeling about the US and the 2nd ammendment in the future.

Don't be scared, I'm not and I own a couple registered firearms. However I am quite concerned.

To me, those who would accept the order to attempt to confiscate the law-abiding, private citizenry's firearms are the ones who should be fearful.



[edit on 4-12-2008 by FewWorldOrder]

Doing a door to door search would be almost impossible. There is no way, even if they used the entire military/police/sheriff/posse/whatever force to do such a search.

And even if they did start such a search, it would take them years upon years to hit each and every single household in every single town, city, county and state, not to mention getting at those hard to reach ranch houses too.

And there will be some who are able to, like me, that have plenty of land area to hide their weapons and no one will ever find them.

I dont think you have anything to worry about. You dont need some fancy schmancy high powered assault weapon to protect yourself or for hunting. Get what is comfortable for you and something that you can handle and feel safe with. It is not necessary to be carrying around firepower to hunt that will only end up being.."overkill" and leave nothing left for you afterwards.

At the right angle, right distance, a 25 can be significant firepower, enough to kill even. A decent hand gun would be either a 32 or a 45. For hunting, a 30/30 is good enough and it wouldnt hurt to have a 12 guage or two.



Cheers!!!!

The choice of firearms should meet your personal need. If for nothing else, a quality firearm is a good investment. Never lost money buying a gun.

The other considerations are a bit overrated. Confiscation of all firearms? In somebody's dreams. And if any of the current load of Democrats think about getting a bit crazy, they too, know that elections are held every two years.

Aside from NY, CT, MA, CA, and a few others, most states have representatives and senators who are very much beholding to the gun owners.

Get a quality gun that you feel comfortable with. Try it first. Most gun owners will tell you a personal story of finding that "perfect" gun just for them, while there were thousands made from the same tooling with the same materials, but this particular one fits you, it feels perfect, and you have trouble missing with it.

Whatever you get - practice. Might as well buy a hatchet if you're not going to be skillful with it.

Good luck.

This is something you should not worry about. Apply the use of your rights if you believe it may help you in emergency situations.

There are an estimated 270,000,000 firearms in the United States. Confiscation will be extremely difficult and next to impossible to achieve a complete disarmament. I can almost guarantee that should a mass confiscation be imposed, it will spark a war.

Originally posted by FewWorldOrder

To me, those who would accept the order to attempt to confiscate the law-abiding, private citizenry's firearms are the ones who should be fearful.

I agree with you 100 percent.

Emotions produced from such people due to the illegal use of firearms ALWAYS override logic and common sense regarding legal ownership to them.

"At the right angle, right distance, a 25 can be significant firepower, enough to kill even. A decent hand gun would be either a 32 or a 45. For hunting, a 30/30 is good enough and it wouldnt hurt to have a 12 guage or two."

ummm, don't listen to that. At ANY angle a 25 has a pretty good chance at not even penetrating the skull, a 22 is amaller and much more dangerous but i wouldn't trust it either, BUT a 22 rifle IS a necessity in the hunting situation.
you will need weapons that have the most chances of finding replacement parts for (since you can't buy them) and ones that have the most commont ammunition, since this too will be in short demand. there are not many 32 or 25's out there when compared to a 22.
what you need is this:
a good .22 ruger rifle. this is your ultimate small games gun (squirell and such)
you want an AK47...these can be used for hunting AND they are responsible for every successful coup since it's invention..the rounds are abundant, they rarley ever mess up, but in a situation X scenario, parts for an AK will be the easiest to find.
which is why the handgun you want is a 9mm. these bullets are everywhere,(remember, u can't got to the store to get them anymore) and although it will not go through a bullet proof vest, it has WAY more stopping power than a 25 or 32, those are laughable calibers, i can't believe theyu were suggested. anyway, onto the last
he got this one right at least: the 12 gauge shotgun, a must have in the hunting area, and excellent close quarters gun as well, not much aiming needed, and essential for taking down ducks and such. the 30/30 IS a good idea, but if you can only afford one High powered rifle (the .22 is relatively cheap) then you need the AK47.
lol. whatever you do don't get the 32 and 25...geesh.

now then:1.Thoughts on how or whether to have a rifle gun w/out being registered
2.Thoughts on if a gun will even be neccessary
3.Thoughts on what you would do if the right to own a gun was nullified
4.Thoughts on if it will be dangerous to be a registered gun owner in the future

1.definately get your AK47 and your 9mm without registration, a house by house search isn't likely, but national guard builings are never too far away from one another, and they could get the manpower to do that if they wanted, someone suggested that this is not so, but most likely they will only go searching for assault weapon and handgun owners, so u want to get these privately or at gun shows, OR you can always have someone else go buy it for you.
2.they may not be necessary, wouldn't it be nice to have them if they were? it could save your family's life after all.
3.if the right is taken away, i keep my guns, i bury my fully automatic AK and my Tech 9's with high capacity clips, basicly bury all the "warfare guns" and only keep out my 22 rifle and my 12 guage shotgun...(they will not take these away, that may be attempted someday, but trust me, they will have to phase guns out SLOWLY and u need to buy the high cap handguns and high powered rifles now and just dig a hole and cap to ends of some 8 inch PVC and bury them in it...if time comes to defend your family, dig them up and get ready to rock
4.yes, registered gun owners of assult weapons will definately have a hard time soon, as well as owners of handguns that can fire a round that is typicly fired from a rifle (armor piercing like .227, .308, ect) and handguns with high capacity mags. BUY LOTS OF AMMO NOW, it will go up 500% in price BEFORE it's banned, and all reload equipment is the first to go also since it can be used to make a bomb.
hope i could help....but please, do consider getting them, i feel that we will need them for sure.

Get a bolt action rifle in .308 or 30-06 with a high power scope.

Why, it is not a assault weapon and would not be the first they would come after.

It will worry the government a lot less when you report it missing.

It would be a great sniper or stand off weapon.

Assault weapons are great for close fighting less then 100 feet.
but if you get into a short range gun battle you did not plan right.

Today most people do not even think of fighting at ranges of 400 to 800 feet.
most people can not hit much at that range.

This gives anyone that can fight at those ranges a big advantage.

Always pick the battle field to your advantage.

Never fight on someone elses battle field they would have the advantage.

reply to post by ANNED
yes if you can afford the 30 06 then u need one of those also. problem is, this ammo will not be as abundant as ak...so i'm still saying if u can only get 1 then it has to be that. but for me personally, i have to agree that a nice long range bolt action should be in your possesion also.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


You saying that if I put a 25 at your ear that it cant pass right through your ear drum and go right through your ear cannal and right into your brain?

Perhaps you should examine the velocity of a typical 25 calibur bullet and what that would do at the right angle and distance.

I have seen a friend get killed by a 25 dude. And yes it was an accident and he was goofing off and put it to his ear and bam.

Advice...dont listen to him telling you dont listen to me. Obviously someone who doesnt know that much about the physics of firearms except that bigger is better.

There have been people killed by 22's as well. Google it and find out for yourself.



Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by RFBurns
reply to post by Enigma Publius

 

You saying that if I put a 25 at your ear that it cant pass right through your ear drum and go right through your ear cannal and right into your brain?

Perhaps you should examine the velocity of a typical 25 calibur bullet and what that would do at the right angle and distance.

I have seen a friend get killed by a 25 dude. And yes it was an accident and he was goofing off and put it to his ear and bam.

Advice...dont listen to him telling you dont listen to me. Obviously someone who doesnt know that much about the physics of firearms except that bigger is better.

There have been people killed by 22's as well. Google it and find out for yourself.



Cheers!!!!

LMAO! what i'm saying IS: i'd rather not have to be right up on someones ear to shoot them for one...for two i have seen a "dude" get shot in the head 3 times with a 25 and live... TONS of people have been shot in the head with this pathetic pea shooter and lived. Obviously you are the one not familiar with firearms... the man is asking for help and you name the .25 and the .32??? those are the WORST possible choices...shall i get an expert on this subject matter to weigh in or will u just admit that i am right? tell me why on earth you would choose a 25 over a 22 PLEASE! when talking smaller caliber, you would want the one that is fired out of the most handguns and rifles alike...and that is the .22. you would want a fast but small bullet...the .22 is a tad smaller than a .25, but longer with more powder...10 times more accurate, many more models to shoot them, TONS more chances of getting the ammo if you can't buy it in the store...OMG you are so base. makes me wonder if you are serious. but honestly: you lose. quit diggin your hole it's deep enough already. but if you insist we can find a ATS subject expert on firearms and ammo, and i'll let him rip you to shreds instead. your suggestion of the .25 or .32 is just laughable.

Gun ownership is a right, not just a 2nd amendment right ,but a God given right to protect yourself, loved ones and property[ castle doctrine ]..If you decide to get a gun and know very little about them, take a course on gun handling and saftey.. I've handled guns for over 40 yrs. and have taken concealed carry classes..I only consider myself a novice at teaching gun handling and safety..... Don't have some crazy old uncle teach you about guns just because he's been deer hunting for 30 yrs. A gun is nothing more than a tool, but it should be used properly... For your first gun, don't go out and get something you're intimidated by[375 H&H mag], or something that looks cool [Bushmaster with all the bells and whistles] ..Get a gun your comfortable with.. A bolt action rifle in say .243 or a 20 ga. pump shotgun or a .22 pistol or rifle.. start with the basics....If you don't like buying from a gun store [ a certain large chain store , starts with W, takes a picture of you as you're purchasing your firearm] check the classifieds..guns can be had..... as for regestration...Remember what they did in california... /// Live free or die.

Just my 2 cents, but if i was just starting out i would get the following.

.22
.270 bolt
12g
and 9mm pistol.

Why, as mentioned earlier a .22 is a very under rated gun. There are a lot of smaller animals you can take with it, (know first hand) Grouse, squirl, rabbit, and many others, and if you are a good enough shot you can take deer with it as well. Know this first hand as well.

.270, ammo is in every store, affordable and almost every hunter has one , or knows someone that dose.. they have a much flater path than a 30.06 and many other guns, but still pack a punch, you can take down about any game you want with one if you practice. (i've seen a Moose taken down with a .223 swift.)

12 g is great for protection, knock the barrel down a bit and you have a great splatter gun for close range. (that is after things go to crap before then you dont dare make it to short.)

9mm decent and lots of ammo around. They are not bear stoppers but will get their attention. at close range a 9mm pistol is hard to beat.

What can you expect to spend.. shop in the papers and online, craigslist etc.
.22 you can pick up a decent one for $100 or so..

a .270 you can get for around $300 new, so used should be some where in that range depending on brand and scope.

a 12 guage, if you shop around you can find a used one for $150ish.
a 9mm pistol, you can buy a S&K for $140 new. Although they are lower quality and not as good as a Glock or others, they will serve the purpose if needed.

Something else to consider is a compound bow.. quiet, you can hunt just about any game with it, big or small, range is limited, and would not be a great battle weapon, but would be a great sneak sniper weapon.

Originally posted by severdsoul
Just my 2 cents, but if i was just starting out i would get the following.

.22
.270 bolt
12g
and 9mm pistol.

Why, as mentioned earlier a .22 is a very under rated gun. There are a lot of smaller animals you can take with it, (know first hand) Grouse, squirl, rabbit, and many others, and if you are a good enough shot you can take deer with it as well. Know this first hand as well.

.270, ammo is in every store, affordable and almost every hunter has one , or knows someone that dose.. they have a much flater path than a 30.06 and many other guns, but still pack a punch, you can take down about any game you want with one if you practice. (i've seen a Moose taken down with a .223 swift.)

12 g is great for protection, knock the barrel down a bit and you have a great splatter gun for close range. (that is after things go to crap before then you dont dare make it to short.)

9mm decent and lots of ammo around. They are not bear stoppers but will get their attention. at close range a 9mm pistol is hard to beat.

What can you expect to spend.. shop in the papers and online, craigslist etc.
.22 you can pick up a decent one for $100 or so..

a .270 you can get for around $300 new, so used should be some where in that range depending on brand and scope.

a 12 guage, if you shop around you can find a used one for $150ish.
a 9mm pistol, you can buy a S&K for $140 new. Although they are lower quality and not as good as a Glock or others, they will serve the purpose if needed.

Something else to consider is a compound bow.. quiet, you can hunt just about any game with it, big or small, range is limited, and would not be a great battle weapon, but would be a great sneak sniper weapon.

our list is same cept for the 270...and u know killin deer w/ 22 is ilegeal as hell right? ok. hey poster....fon't u think the 25 or 32 is better? lol

KISS principal.

.22 (Ruger 10/22) for survival.....will kill a deer no problem with a head shot (in eye or behind ear) CCI stingers. just learn how to hunt, meaning get within 30ft of a doe. Small game no problem.

12ga pump for defense. God forbid you have to shoot someone, so hopefully the sound of a pump racking a shell will be a deterent.....

reply to post by Pinktip


keep it simple stupid....words to live by. Yes i agree with you, the 22 and the shotgun are totally necessary, but they should still have a higher caliber also like a 9mm, i've just seen too many examples of the .22 not killing a person...also, the .22 and shotgun are not good after 100 yards...to much spread on the shotgun and too much drop on the .22 lr; so i suggest the AK for long range hunting or defending...i've hit targets on open sights at 250 yards easy with my AK. In Situation X...some people will have kevlar on, especially the guys coming to take your guns...the 22 or shotgun will not phase them unless u get a head shot, and i gurantee they will have something to hit YOU with at 300 yaards so you should too if you really hope to have a chance. Also, i've heard stories of a deer not going down after a headshot with a .22 the head is not what you want to aim at with this caliber, they just groove around the skull to often without penetrating. When your life depends on getting meat, shoot for the lungs snd chest are with the semi aut ruger 10/22...you can expect to get off at least 2 shots in that are, and the deer will not live long after a lung or chest shot, but they may just run away after a head shot...i've seen it. but, you just can't beat the accuracy and stopping power of a 25 or 32.... he was telling me that i obviously no nothing of physics of bullets....lol, then said bigger isn't always better, and i was suggesting a smaller caliber bullet than he was! i love it when people are wrong and also just totally convinced they know what they are talking about at the same time. i'd much rather defend myself with a sword than a .25...arguably the crappiest round money can buy...and the .32! OMG, those bullets aren't going to just be lying around like the 22's or 9mms or 12 guage. the bullet is too short, no stopping power, it would just piss some people off. but 15 shots (what most 22 rifles hold with one chambered) of a .22 will kill anyone that doesn't have on kevlar. If you could afford to stock up bigtime on the ammo (because there won't be much of this one around either) you can't beat the .177 caliber bolt action rifle for small game hunting..AND this VERY HIGH velocity yet smaller than a .22 caliber is more accurate at 100 yards than any other gun, but drops off wuickly after that because it just doesn't have much weight behind it, but up to 100 yads, it can't be beat, and the ballistic tips would be much better for killing a deer than the .22. i still think the .22 would be a better overall choice just because the ammo is abundant, just don't trust head shots is my only caution to you.

Why no Mr. Governemtn Agent... I don 't have the 180,000 rounds of ammuntion you think I do. It was stolen last Wednesday along with my Pez dispenser!

Sorry... Just practicing...

Op based on your statements, never having had a gun, never seeing a use for them, etc... I think you maybe projecting your overall "unease" with firearms onto the registration issue.

There are so many guns in the U.S. there is NO WAY the government could effectively track them down. It is just not possible. That should be the least of your concerns. Just remember to lie if asked during a crisis.

In many states, owning an unregistered firearm is illegal. Make sure you are aware of your state and local laws governing the purchase of firearms.

I understand your concern about registration but with thousands of guns being sold every single day in the US (all are registered at the point of sale), it would be all but impossible to confiscate them. Aside from that, a massive gun confiscation program would likely result in a revolt against the government. I'm sure they know this.

Look instead for future restrictions on the types of guns that can be sold, unreasonable taxing of firearms and ammo to discourage sales and ridiculous process and procedures to procure guns and ammo in the future. Remember, a frog thrown into a boiling pot will jump right out, but if you slowly turn up the heat it will cook without realizing it is cooking. The government is more likely to follow that procedure.

Another surefire thing you can plan on will be the government's requirement that you turn in your firearms in order to be eligible for government assistant programs. They are already do warm-ups to this with guns for food programs around the country - they are telling people to turn in their guns, no questions asked, and receive a $100 food card and $100 gas card. With the economy on the brink, they will use these types of enticements to disarm the populace "peacefully" knowing that desperate people are more likely to succumb. Do not fall prey to that crap!

Jackboots kicking down doors, armed and at the ready, will spark a civil revolt in record time. Those in power know full well that far too many military men and women belive in their sworn oath to protect and uphold the Constitution - and that to violate the Second Ammendment is an illegal order and would likely be disregarded or met with too much internal opposition. No, look for disarmament to come slowly and stealthily and appear to be volutary.

As far as what to buy??? Whatever YOU are comfortable with. Oh, and get training and become comfortable with it. Spend some time at the range. As another poster has already said, you might as well throw rocks if you cannot use your firearm. Finally, stock up on ammo BEFORE the heat gets turned up.

In most states you can acquire a rifle via FTF or private sale without any registration. If you have the time and $30 you can get yourself a type 03 FFL and horde all sorts of firearms with the only paper trail being a bill of sale and your own log book.

To protect against confiscation or banning just keep your mouth shut. You have what you have and it's nobody else business what you have. There are a few choice arms of mine that I may report stolen and hide away. If doing this I would do it sooner rather than later. Announcing something is stolen right after they knock on your neighbors door is more than a little suspicious.

Do I think they will go door to door? In most of the country, no. In urban areas where the registered and licensed owners number very few, yes. Cities will most certainly see door to door confiscation. They are very unlikely to resist because of the urban-dependent mentality and there are not nearly as many of them as there are in less urban areas. This is one of the reasons the tax system works so hard to force people into densely populated slave states like CT and MA and CA. The rule of the land does the confiscation job ahead of time when the law-abiding is concerned.

A gun isnt necessary until you need it. If I need a hammer and dont have one I can just go out and get one. If you need a gun and dont have one.... well, let's just say it's not like needing a hammer.

Your first gun(s) purchase(s) is a delicate subject. I know jackasses who went out bought some Dirty Harry-esque .44 magnum, shot it terribly and hurt their wrists/hands/elbows and now wont shoot anything. The expensive testicle replacement they bought just sits in a box unless I come by and borrow it for some range time.

Look around your area for a range that rents or better yet get some friends who shoot and use their guns and their ammo.

Bread and butter necessities for a solid collection foundation are common guns in common calibers. Depending on your geographic location these may vary. I hear all the time how 7.62x39mm is so common in a SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, event you'll be stumbling across the stuff left and right. Well, unless you live in Afganistan or Romania or happen to be surrounded by neighbors stockpiling the stuff this isnt exactly true. I suppose if were invaded Red Dawn style 7.62x39mm would be everywhere. In the U.S. the NATO rounds are the most common. A 5.56 NATO is a fast and accurate round but even though I shoot regularly and hunt I still wouldnt trust it to kill a deer clean. If you dont shoot and cant get close to game you have no business hunting with a 5.56/.223 or smaller. If you can track and it's all you've got go for it but it's far from ideal. A 7.62 NATO or .308Win would be a better option. Both are abundant in the U.S.. Two + ongoing wars have made this seem untrue but it all depends on where you are in the States, what you expect the TEOTWAWKI scenerio to be etc...

That said about the NATO rounds, something that is more common in my area is the cowboy ammo. We have a lot of .30-30, .357, .45 Long Colt etc... I like cowboy cartridges because you're going to overlap firearms. Within any of those you'll end up with a handgun, carbine and rifle all taking the same ammo. This has it's pluses and minuses in a SHTF scenario. Less ammo to carry. If a gun should become inoperable you dont have all this useless ammo on you. Less chance of Murphy jamming the wrong bullets in your gun. But, you may have a hard time finding the specific ammo you need making all of your guns useless. It's worth noting that the cowboy rounds arent the only ammunition with cross-firearm usage. There are plenty of pistol caliber carbines out there most of which are adequate for a multitude of game. The lever .30-30 is the most popular deer rifle in America for a reason.

Popular semi-auto pistol cartridges are 9mm, .380 and .45ACP. The 9 and 45 being more popular than the .380. Again, this may change depending on your location. For instance, there is a large gang in Chicago whos signature is the .25 ACP. I suppose if you're entrenched in that gang .25 ACP would be a good choice. With the exception of direct confrontation in a situation where concealment is key I cannot say that anything smaller than 9mm is worthwhile acquiring. Most arms firing such small calibers as .25ACP or .32 or .380 have barrels less than 5 inches long making them all but useless for hunting or anything outside of close personal defense actually. Not because of a lack of energy, these bullets wont be bouncing off your head trust me, but for a lack of sustained energy and accuracy over distance.

Not knowing where you live or any other specific details the collection foundation I'd suggest would be: shotgun 12 or 20 gauge, popular cartridge handgun 9mm or .45ACP, an accurate plinker .22 or .17HMR (action doesnt matter) good for small game coyote and smaller or if you can afford it a AR-15, something for big food either a .308 or .30-06 action doesnt matter. Of course your budget will alter this. If I were dirt broke I'd grab a used Mossberg 500 for $150, and a used Marlin 336 for $200 and call it a day. These two will fill just about any real world needs and a .357Mag you can fire .38's from if funds allow it. Three do-all guns you can easily carry and find abundant ammo for.

If you expect to be defending your property in a riot situation then by all means get a military arm like an AR-15 or M14 or FAL or AK.

It all depends on what you expect to go down and what your resources are in you area or the are to which you will flee.

I'm lucky in that I love any and all guns, so does the woman, and can on occasion afford to splurge. I'm unlucky because I'll probably hesitate grabbing a gun in a SHTF situation and most likely regret the choice I made.


There really is no single answer to any of these questions that can come without personal experience. The best advice I can give you is to shoot anything you can get your hands on and if possible take anything you can apart, clean it, understand it, build it. You can read about ballistics night and day but it doesnt mean anything unless you see it first hand.

It's all just my opinion of course.