reply to post by Mozzy

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Try to edit the first post you made on this and change the title. That way no one will see the failty title and rush in to tell you that you're wrong.

As a rule, Abductees are a mixed bag. Their's nothing special about being an abductee. Their's nothing wrong with it. Most people that would tell you horror stories about being an abductee have childhood issues they've blocked out and are projecting onto the abductee phenomenon.

Some abductees are night terrors.
Some abductees are nutcases.


A very few abductees are actually people who have been measured upon. Most abductees don't even know they are being measured upon.

"Stay asleep, we're not going to harm you, you are not in any danger, stay asleep".

reply to post by mellisamouse

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i still dont see the connection to aliens in what you have said.
just because you have a period of time that you cant account for and that the police may think that you were abducted (by persons unknown) does not mean that it was an alien(s).
i dont think that you have really considered an earthly possability for this 'episode'. my older brother has had (and still does) many of these episodes.

as a side point - i do believe that aliens exist on other planets i just havent seen one or had anyone show any factual, testable or conclusive evidence of such, nor do i believe that they can cross the distance to us.

i'm not the op.

but if i said i was, would you believe me? how would you know that the op wasn't abducted and that this whole premise was to fool you?

lol, hahahha. Then I could counter argue, that you would have prove that EVERY SINLGLE abductee WAS certfyably insaine, and then call YOU wrong, but as I said....what are some BEHAVIORS that would lead to that conclusion..

I can give many examples of behaviors of people deemed SAINE that I find completley ???? questionable....for example...

#1) People move into my basement suite. I make them sign a lease saying it is NON smoking.....they move in, smoke right away, and then are totally flabbergasted that I kicked them out???? THEn the next person who moves in is an aquantence of our cousin, KNOWS why we kicked the other person ut, and gets cought smoking red handed TWICE, and is again stunned we would kick them out. (it is not like it was ablizzard or anything either, we have a coverd car port they are aliound to smoke in....

#2) Girl falls in love with guy...guy beats crap out of girl, girl goes back over and over and over......DEFINATLY irrational...

#3) bet life savings on a horse, loose, save up and d it again...

#4) Drinking and driving.....is it such a big deal to take a cab or a bus THERE AND BACK??? I never even DRIVE there in the first place when I know I'm drinking....

these are some examples of behavior that while being totally IRRATIONAL, are completley acceptable......


What are some the BEHAVIORS was my question.

Yeah, good point. There are some other things too, but I am not sure if I really wanna get into it.....in the implants thread there is a bunch of stuff, going to karaoke again, so I don't have time to repeat it all, but here is the thread, the one that inspired me to start THIS thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I really can understand the frustration of those wanting PROOF, as I really want more proof as well....just wish someone ELSE could get it for me....to write down EVERYTHING that happened all 3 times, well I might as well have written a book, but geeze, that would just open up a whole can a worms that I definatly don't feel like feasting on.

reply to post by Incarnated

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I'm just curious as to how some people come to the conclusion who is and is not an abductee. Those who are insane etc.? Is there a list here?

If someone admits it and doesn't deny ignorance, are they also guilty?
It's been suggested people who crave attention here usually start posts?

Thank you

reply to post by aleon1018

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Sanity? Does such a thing even exist? "We" seem to have rules and walls put up as to what is a "shared perception". Basic understanding of psychology states that "reality" is 95% personal perspective. That would equate to reality, or sanity, being the rage of "reality" shared by the larger unit of the whole. Reality, and therefore sanity is the other 5% of measureable phenomenon that falls under shared perception.

Personally, I deem insanity as being LOST in the darkness of confusion and thinking you are actually in the light of truth and understanding.

I have seen people be falsely judged insane just because they see objective realitiy phenomenon in a diffrent way, or worst express that which they see in uncommon terms.

However, do not fool yourself. True insanity exists. You are all insane, it is the realization of that and the diging one's self out daily, moment by moment, that leads to sainity temporarily.

Sounds more like the matrix scenario. Everyone believes reality is what they're used to and more comfortable with accepting.

And Yeah, having had what appeared to be a break down has made some things seem a little bit clearer. What was worse was my apparently autistic denial with my poor health habits and sensitivities to many foods and additives which is oddly different from my known family. So much for being "special"

Having been able to reflect recall and recover from what seemed like near death, I am still a survivor and crawling back to civilzation using a new prescription for a reality check.

Most of what you said I assume was over my head and I lost the message.

reply to post by mellisamouse

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when i was a child i had an acident that involved some small fragments of metal being left inside. in my early 20s i had an issue with my wrist. the doctors removed a small bead that they thought was ceramic. they were amazed at how small and round it was - 1 1/2 mm diameter.
it wasnt. one of the small peices of metal had floated around my body became lodged in my wrist. the ceramic was actually calcification around the metal.
i did not remeber the original acident nor did my parents. my granmother did and found a picture she had taken of the stitches in my leg.
my only question is - why wasnt it marked on my medical records.

reply to post by mellisamouse

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ok i had re-read your original post several times...
there is no single behaviour that would be considered insane - more a collection thought processes (logic) / belifes / actions (deeds done) that would lead to what is considered as insane (abnormal) behaviour for an individual. these will vary depending on the psychosis and the severity.

p.s have fun at karaoke

hahahaha the pope nazi apologizes for pedo's hahaha

You see there is more dangerous people on this planet, than people from perhaps a weakish demeanor who believe Aliens talk to them.
They are mostly harmless.
More dangerous people than Christians who think God talks to them.
They are Psychopaths, and they are in positions of power all around you.
And the mainstream considers them normal.And not loony.
But watch this movie.
/65yufu
And you will see they are far from normal.
I am not scared of someone who talks to Aliens, but I am very scared of a pathological liar.

Thanks man.... karaoke rocked as usual...man am I a geek to like karaoke, not insaine, but admittedly a geek, or dork mabey?

I KNOW man! If you ask me it takes some BIG ba77z to even talk about it, let alone put yourself on the chopping block, BUT...oh well....at least I know I am telliung the TRUTH as I see it????

PLUS I am drinking coors light as of 5 hours ago......what better truth serum is ther than THAT? .......sorry, is that attention seeking?

I don't think you're ever going to get answers to your question Melissa

happen to know for a fact (after having completed about 8 standard psychological tests pages and pages actually of some pretty weird questions) that even admitting a belief in aliens, abduction, or a belief that one can do something most cannot - does not deem one to be insane.

There are psychological standards that dictate and it's normally a combination of trigger questions that lead a psychologist/psychiatrist to deliver a certain diagnosis(s').

I am sane after all the tests (which are numerically scored). I was diagnosed with Panic and anxiety with agoraphobia, dysthemia, sloughs of phobias...

But sane. What sanity is exactly I honestly don't know Being esoteric, spiritual or down right flaky doesn't seem to make a person nuts.

I have had missing time also, though not as dramatic as yours. I was vacuuming and put the nozzle down to move something - the vacuum was left running as I did this (standing in my living room) next thing I know I'm in my kitchen wondering when the hell i got there when I was about to move a piece of furniture. That and the time that elapsed has never been solved for me.

Insanity I think is categorized not so much by what one believes, rather by how what they believe impacts their life negatively. Does ones beliefs interfere with the normal day day to routine, does it negatively impact on loved ones and family, does it prevent one from being gainful or prevent one from mingling in "normal" societal manners.

I'm not sure of the psychological / psychiatric model(s) of insanity, but I think it's primarily measure by negative impact of a "condition or conditions" compared to an average model or model of sanity.

Personally I think most people are functionally insane. Just normal enough to get by.

An abductee being called insane is really just a poorly planned attack by one with differing views. however without knowing a person quite well...proving or disproving sanity is impossible. So it's a quick and easy way to belittle someone basically.

I dare say the majority of abductees or experiencers are not out barking at light standards, wearing tinfoil beanies, or building mountains in mashed potatoes.

Most of us have to work, pay bills, and try to eek out a relatively good life. Same as anyone.

reply to post by justgeneric

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Interesting post. It does beg the question of a simple survey with these questions. I have said before that may be those who may be wise enough to fudge a test like that as well.

Lie detectors with the mentally ill or unstable is another. PTSD seems to also be considered. MY recall was much more vivid at first and there were flashbacks with names etc.

Now I've forgotten these as these memories are as if dying. At any rate, since you know somethinng about these questions and tests, please do share more if you can.

Thanks

i agree they aren't insane, people just don't believe them because it hasn't happened to them personally, i am not an abductee, but i always try and keep an open mind and remind myself that anything is possible.

I am unsure why you would think there is some explanation other than alien abduction (or VERY technically advanced black ops abduction) going on in the OP's story. At least, if it is true (and I highly suspect that it is), it would seem that her footprints (alone) went out to a fence, stopped with no other footprints around, and then picked up some far distance away (such that she could not have merely jumped).

There is no way she could have gone missing in -40 degrees long enough for the police to have been alerted and begin a search - without her being mighty cold by the time she showed up. Yet... She was not cold - just beginning to feel the coldness.

So I wonder who is sane here. The one that persists in trying to suggest there is some simple, logical explanation that does not involve an extraordinary event, or the one who wonders why people who tell their stories are called "insane."

I wonder about vested interest when someone takes the details of this story and implies that there is "nothing to see here, move along, move along..."



Your brother has his single set of footprints stop, alone, in snow with no other disturbances (which an earthly possibility would show - barring black ops, and even then, it's...weird) and shows up hours later in extreme cold without showing signs of being cold?

Somehow I doubt it.



Well you are welcome to your views. I strongly suspect that not only have we been visited, we are infiltrated. (I read The Terra Papers - linked in my sig.) So given the fact that seemingly all evidence is systematically and immediately swept up and hidden (plenty of stories from sane people to suggest this is so), I wouldn't be looking for too much of it to be placed into MY hands. I look at secondary evidence, such as the plethora of sane individuals, including high-ranking military, giving testimony and depositions suggesting that we are indeed infiltrated.

I think it's worth keeping in mind that the people who tell abductees that they are probably insane on a message board are not, by and large, mental health specialists.

As justgeneric points out, there are tests that can be used to diagnose various forms of mental disorders, and most mental disorders are not what we mean by "insanity".

I read an interesting article recently on how the rise of internet communities around phenomena such as alien abduction and mind control victimization plays havoc with the psych industry's diagnostic criteria in some ways. Because their criteria are based on several things, including whether a belief is coherent with experience, but also whether a belief is coherent with the belief structure of the community.

So to use you as an example, melissamouse, your explanation of what happened (that you were abducted by aliens) is coherent with the facts – missing time, reappearance elsewhere, footprints stopping. Another coherent explanation is that you were abducted by one or more humans and underwent a traumatic experience that caused your memory loss. A third is that you spontaneously went into a dissociative fugue and did something during the time you don't remember under your own power (hitchhiked to the other side of town, say).

Are you insane for thinking you were abducted? I don't think so.

You may or may not be insane for other reasons, but that belief doesn't make you so.

An analogy:

Suppose I have an infection. I go to the doctor and he gives me antibiotics. I go to an acupuncturist and she sticks pins in my ear and sends me home with some herbs. I ask my friend to pray for me to get well. When I get well, the doctor thinks it was the antibiotics, the acupuncturist thinks it was unblocking the flow of chi, my friend thinks it was divine intervention.

None of them are insane for their belief. And I can believe that any one or even all of them are true – or even believe it was something entirely different, like the yogurt I ate for breakfast.
_______________________________________

But I don't think the question of whether abductees are insane is an important one.

Some abductees are traumatized by their experience and would benefit from help from a mental health specialist. That doesn't mean I think they're crazy; just that I think they have had a traumatic experience and that few people in our society are fortunate enough to have the support structure that recovery from such trauma requires.

Some abductees are genuinely "insane" – diagnosably schizophrenic for example – and they certainly need medical and psychological help. But they will have other trouble functioning, either attributed to the abduction experience or separate. But again it's not so important whether the abduction is real; it's their inability to function that should be treated.

Are you really worried about whether people think you're insane? or are you worried because some people don't believe what you believe?

reply to post by aleon1018

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To be 100% aleon many of the questions on these tests are very personal and I highly doubt that honesty would prevail on a public forum. it was hard enough to be brutally honest with myself while taking the damn tests...

It's typically at a person's low point or lowest point when they finally admit they cannot cope and resort to a psychologist (mildly amusing joke there). A person will have their own 'self' to deal with should they fudge on those tests. Personally I was desperately in need of help (after being locked in my house for 3 years) and lying on the tests served no purpose. None at all. Some of the questions were quite upsetting - as is the nature of them. Many questions are reiterated in different contexts.

Not appropriate for a public forum. As I said I highly doubt anyone would answer with 100% honesty.

The tests are designed to make a person aware of and question their inner workings, and if someone's not right in their thinking I'm pretty sure it shows by the end of the testing and consults.

Wouldn't it be grand if there were a simple lie detector?

HA as for lie detectors...did you know that people with mood disorders and those with anxiety disorders cannot EVER pass a lie detector test (biorhythmic ) the anxiety muddies all results even when asking the persons real name. neat huh?

So I recommend all abductees to get their head shrunk so that they have documentation to prove they're not insane and we can just mass email the docs out to any skeptical mind who requests it. (sarcasm)

there are microexpressions...was just reading about those today actually. Apparently DHS in teh US is working on facial lie detectors. Cool huh?

[edit on 12/5/2008 by justgeneric]

reply to post by aleon1018

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I agree a hundred and ten percent with your analysis on alien abductees.. and as for your therapist I highly recommend DUMPING him and finding a highly educated one who doesn't allow his/her beliefs to seep into therapy sessions.