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Maybe none of you realized, but Democracies aren't exactly known as "winners"

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posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 07:04 AM
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This post is a reflection on history. I think one problem of today, is almost everyone in the free world, is very arrogant, of the difference of "Democracy" and "Dictatorships" (everything else really...).

Let's do a little run down first:

Democracy has been in effect on this planet since the American revolution, for about 227 years. America is the world's longest running democracy IN HISTORY. (Rome was founded around 700 BC but didn't really practice national democracy until it gained its province in 200 BCs which it then became a dictatorship with the creation of the triumvirate around 50 BC or so, and of course it was an Empire before the year 0...)

So for most arrogant free-worlders out there, you guys have successfully broken a record, and in the history of mankind it's a pathetic record of 227 years. Rome was an empire for over 400, and it then fractured and the eastern half would remain an empire for another 600, and kingdoms would reign over all of Europe until the magna carta in 1200s which wasn't really democracy, even the parliment wasn't more so until the 1600s when it truly challenged the king, but even in the 1700s the King was still running things, hence why America has been considered the first democratic nation.

Setting another thing strait, Democracy is a broad word, America is a Democracy, it is also a Republic because of HOW it governs itself...it is a state based on Federalism, so no knit-picking here.

Ok, so we've firmly established the fact, that america broke a record! WOW!!!!

Let's look at History's first Great Democracy, Athens.

This part of history, is to teach all those blundering "free-worlders" out there, that the bad guys can, do, and do OFTEN win.

A little thing called the peloponesian war, lasted about 40 years, very much so like this "war on terrorism".

It may have been a war for 40 years, but the fighting was fairly limited, to an Athens that ccouldn't leave her walls, and a Sparta who couldn't control the sea...so mainly it was just a war of battles when they wanted to fight.

Much like now, we have the LIBERTY to pick our fights, where and when, hence why it doesn't seem like a war...but really it is.

Athens would never have thought it was going to lose, how could they? They were a democracy, fighting for freedom, not because they were born to fight as Spartans were. How could they lose?

Well one day Athenians woke up, and they lost, the day before they were kicking major Butt with the Athenian navy, and the next day came the news that the Persians gave Sparta a fleet to use, and the Spartans beat the crap out of Athens navy, and cut off its food supply.

The war, that was a stalemate for nearly 40 years, ended in one battle, in one day. Today is no different.

To all those who think "Why fight Iraq?" "War-on-terrorism is a Government ploy" that sorta thing. One of these days, you're going to wake up and the news will not be showing NYC but a smoldering crater, and the US is officially in a Depression.

Instead of going to work to talk about this horrible disaster, you'll go to work and be told you're fired, layed off, they can't afford you anymore.

One day, one battle, can change it all...democracies, are not dictatorships, the center does not hold.

Athens after losing, was forced to lose it's "Empire" and while it could practice direct-democracy, it could not do the same with it's former city states, the world that day until the rise of Rome in 200BC would fall into a kingly rule.

People even VOTE for dicatorships. Germany in 1930s, allowed Hitler to become a Dictator, a God. And we were lucky, only because of Hitler's ego (Rommel would have smacked us up and down the court if he were allowed to run everything) did we win that war, that and the countless lives sacrificed in the Russian front, by yet another dicator.

If america had to suffer the casualties of Russia, it would have promptly been suing for peace, or Democracy would have had to been compromised to allow for propganda and maintaining morale.

Morale of story, Democracies, while they are the only way to live, are the hardest way to maintain.

So before you so promptly stand against military efforts aimed at destroying Dictatorships, realize, that history has always favored, the Dictator, not our way of life.

Sincerely,
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posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 09:17 AM
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One problem, FM: We're not a democracy.

We're a Republic.


There's a BIG difference!



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 09:24 AM
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"Democracy has been in effect on this planet since the American revolution, for about 227 years. "

Thats odd....
I thought Britain had been a practical democracy for 282 years....



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 11:39 AM
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...But we're not a Republic anymore, once you consider how much the Constitution has been violated by the government (so far)...

...And to think that the President is required to uphold the Constitution by taking the Inaugurational Vow (as stated in Article 2, Section 1, Paragraph 8):
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

But then take a look at Article 1, Section 9, Paragraph 8:
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

Wasn't Bush officially Knighted by the Crown of England recently? Another indicator of how well he keeps his vows...

Article 2, Section 4:
The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.

With this statement, the citizens *do* have the right to call for removal of office of nearly every crook that has committed *any* crime in office, right down to failure of maintaining a pet's license...That would wipe out pretty much all of the current government, wouldn't it? (Especially Bush for accepting Knighthood & breaking his Vow of Office)


Article 3, Section 3:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

If the public were to *demand* that all government-confiscated evidence of any terrorist attacks (As an "Act of War") to be turned over to State Civil Authories (or even privately-hired investigators) for investigation, I'm willing to bet that a large number of the governmental admisistration would be facing the Senate for the purpose of Impeachment...To be followed by trial in the Supreme Court on charges of Treason. This does *not* grant the government right to withold all evidence from crimes of such magnitude.

Article 1, Section 8:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States (Two of the listed powers are listed as follows);
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

Considering that the Federal Reserve System is a system of *civilian banking concerns* (Use of the word "Federal" in the title is misleading & inaccurate) & therefore Unconstitutional in its formation & operations, the government is *required* to disband that system & prosecute that system for the crime of counterfeiting!

How many other such examples do you need to realize that we're no longer a Republic?



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 11:43 AM
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I don't think Bush was knighted - I could be wrong, though Greenspan was and that seemed to tick a lot of people off.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 11:54 AM
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Bush snr was not knighted.Reagan was,Greenspan was,Guilliani was.Was Clinton?I can't remember.I think he was.Pretty sure Powel will one day.

Anyway you can't use them in a Republic.It always strikes me as odd that American and Irish like Bob Geldof except them.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Article 3, Section 3:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

If the public were to *demand* that all government-confiscated evidence of any terrorist attacks (As an "Act of War") to be turned over to State Civil Authories (or even privately-hired investigators) for investigation, I'm willing to bet that a large number of the governmental admisistration would be facing the Senate for the purpose of Impeachment...To be followed by trial in the Supreme Court on charges of Treason. This does *not* grant the government right to withold all evidence from crimes of such magnitude.


AMEN!!!!!!! Hence, my signature file.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd
One problem, FM: We're not a democracy.

We're a Republic.


There's a BIG difference!


Yes, there is a big difference. Fact is, we haven't been a Republic for over 140 years. We have been, in fact, a democracy. This was not as the founding fathers intended, but because we choose ignorance over the responsibility necessary to keep the freedom, we've lost it.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 08:58 PM
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If we were a Democracy, TC, then every time they wanted to pass a piece of legislation, we would all hie ourselves bodily to Washington, DC, and vote directly.

We have representatives that represent the majority political party in our area; hence, we're a Republic.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 09:27 PM
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Has anyone heard of a representative democracy?

Well, that's what we are. We have false states that represent an area and they report to the central government of the democracy. A real "state" is actually a country, for those of you that don't know.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 09:41 PM
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Well since none of you ninkom-poops seem to know that Demokratia means ONLY rule by the people, that Democracy has NOTHING TO DO with Political function.

Democracy is an encompassing umbrella of everything, Republics, Representative Democracies, Direct Democracies, EVERYTHING.

Hence why I first stated to not fret about it, but ignorance seems to prevail, and no one can seem to pick up a dictionary.

Fact is history doesn't favor this type of freedom, so watch your bums.

Sincerely,
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posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 10:04 PM
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Main Entry: democracy
Pronunciation: di-'m-kr&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Middle French democratie, from Late Latin democratia, from Greek dEmokratia, from dEmos + -kratia -cracy
Date: 1576
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2 : a political unit that has a democratic government
3 capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the U.S.
4 : the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5 : the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

And you have democracy in US? It is sweet illusion FM. Wake up please.



posted on Jan, 20 2003 @ 10:37 PM
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Yeah that definition fits perfectly what america is, anyone who thinks America is not democratic, is an idiot.

And as for brittain and its 280+ years? No, King George III was effectively calling the shots after you guys lost the revolutionary war, granted in no way like the kings of old, but still.

Sincerely,
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