Governor General agrees to suspend Parliament, page 2

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Rook1545

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take off your own horse blinders.

The coalition was ready to offer solutions within the next week by presenting a budget of their own.

Now thanks to the GG, Harper and the dumb ignorant Canadians who support them, NO fix will be had until at least January 26th. In reality probably much later.

Loving your country by playing favorites is screwing it over. Nice.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by warrenb]

Yes the dumb ignorant Canadians are the ones that supported this coalition and forced his hand. Be very proud of yourself. How you can blame the GG (who just did her job, as outlined), or Harper (who is not innocent), and not the other 3 leaders that led us to this, is beyond me.

Detail for me what Harper did that was so out of line. What is the root cause of all this fuss? What exactly needs to be fixed? This GLOBAL problem was having very little impact here comparatively to other nations, why all of a sudden is the sky falling?

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23

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Interesting read to be sure. I do know they were tlaking about this kinda thing last night on the news....the reports were when Harper met will the GG he told her he needed permission to suspend parliment and that a failure to do so would cause him to resign his position as PM. thus causing the GG to give power over to Dionne and call a general election within a month or two.

Sound to me like he was pretty much blackmailing her to get his way. "Do it or i quit and you can handle this crap"

reply to post by Rook1545

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watch Canada crumble under the stupidity of it's current administrators and vehement supporters

reply to post by johnsky

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I don't know how you can say the colition would not represent Canadians.

Harpers government holds 143 seats, the colition would hold 163. Therefore more people are respresneted by the coilition.

We could actually look at % of vote and see who is really represented here.
The coilition ( and I am going to included the Green part here because they backed the coilition ) holds 62% of the votes in Canada, Compared to 37% that the Conservatives hold ( 1% going to independants/others ). How would they not represent the majority of people in Canada?

You could argure that we shouldn't include the Bloc Québécois because they want to separate. Well let's do that.

That would leave 37% of the population represented by the conservatives and 52% represented by the coilition.

This coilition government would represent Canada properly in my opionion.

You can see vote results here if you don't believe my numbers.
www.cbc.ca...

reply to post by MikeboydUS

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You guys down there often see things in a cold, concrete kind of way, whereas real life is usually a bit muckier than that. I think our maintaining the GG is a reflection of that reality.
She/he is not so much an ultimate dictator, as he/she is an ultimate safety valve in the case of extreme stupidity on the part of our elected government. (and you have to admit, politicians can be extremely narrow minded and stupid)

The GG in fact is rarely relied upon for anything really substantial. I don't think much at all about the Queen of England because she has literally nothing to do with my everyday life.

So, we elect politicians to propose laws, have an unelected senate as a supposedly unbiased safety against extremely stupid laws, and the GG and Queen as ultimate safety checks. Its all for our own protection against our own stupidity, more or less. It sounds kind of silly, but then again, just look at the results in terms of the way things happen here vs down there in the states.

We usually are more moderate, have a more "helpful" orientation towards the world, are less violent and prone to wars, and on, and on...
Sometimes the mucky, apparently messy way of doing things is just more effective and realistic in the real world, albeit much less interesting.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by johnsky

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Actually i see it a bit dif but agree with you in this was a power grab.Remember when Harper was talking to the separtists to gain power from PM Paul Martin??
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.Harper did it!
Why not be held to his own standards.
Oops sorry...I forgot they have no standards!!LOL

First of all, Harper Didn't do it. It is in every parties playbook to make these arrangements If a minority government falls to a non-confidence vote and If the GG asks the opposition to from a government. If you people would read-up on your own countries history before this you would know that this could happen in a minority situation. Prorogation is in the right of every party of power and can be done once a year regardless If they have a minority or majority of the house seats. I think it's very tacky that certain elements of the left in this country could spin this so that they can justify the stealing of an election for their own personal purposes. This is sour grapes plain and simple. The Conservatives have backed off on everything that has pissed off the Liberals and the NDP, and still they are going after control of the house. That is the fundamental difference between the Conservative party and this so-called coalition which I refer to as the "Axis of Evil". Back when Harper was discussing with the separatist's as you say, that was all it was-discussion. No pro-active action was taken then by the opposition for one simple reason...Respect for the party in power to govern as the party in power. Respect of the rights of voters who voted in the governing Liberals then. They listened to what the people had said and gave the Liberals their chance to rule, and beat them in the next election fair and square I might add. It is those who support this Axis of Evil who are the ones without standards, or morals I might add. What the opposition is doing may be legal, by rule of law but it is certainly not moral by any standard. What will happen next is that there will be a cool-off period,The conservatives will try to reason with the other parties, and will put together a budget with everything the opposition had asked for in the first place. When it is voted down and when they take control of the house,It will be the Axis of Evil who will look bad not the conservatives.And when this so-called coalition fails and we go back to the polls, It will be the voting public of this great nation who serve punishment upon those who are responsible for this incredible fiasco......

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by MikeboydUS

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You guys down there often see things in a cold, concrete kind of way, whereas real life is usually a bit muckier than that. I think our maintaining the GG is a reflection of that reality.
She/he is not so much an ultimate dictator, as he/she is an ultimate safety valve in the case of extreme stupidity on the part of our elected government. (and you have to admit, politicians can be extremely narrow minded and stupid)

The GG in fact is rarely relied upon for anything really substantial. I don't think much at all about the Queen of England because she has literally nothing to do with my everyday life.

So, we elect politicians to propose laws, have an unelected senate as a supposedly unbiased safety against extremely stupid laws, and the GG and Queen as ultimate safety checks. Its all for our own protection against our own stupidity, more or less. It sounds kind of silly, but then again, just look at the results in terms of the way things happen here vs down there in the states.

We usually are more moderate, have a more "helpful" orientation towards the world, are less violent and prone to wars, and on, and on...
Sometimes the mucky, apparently messy way of doing things is just more effective and realistic in the real world, albeit much less interesting.

Don't mean to take anything away from what you said (great post by the way), But one of the main responsibilities of the GG is she has control of the military. It is the Govenor General, not the Minister of National Defence who has authority over the military. It was arranged that way in case there was a situation where the government tried to install themselves as a dictatorship of If a coup-de-tas were to happen. That way all control of the military goes to her.............

reply to post by Nohup

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LOL reminds me of that movie wag the dog

reply to post by wayno

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Ok maybe I'm confused here but if understand correctly the Governor General appointed by the British Crown is there to protect Canada from extreme stupidity from its own elected government.

What exactly makes the Governor General and the British Crown incapable of extreme stupidity? They are just human after all like the elected officials. What makes them better and superior to anyone else?

Why couldn't the people of Canada police themselves against extreme stupidity? Canada is full of intelligent and responsible people. Why not a homegrown native Supreme Court that could act as the safety valve?
What exactly does Canada get from the British Crown maintaining this leash, the Governor General, on the Canadian government? What real benefit does it provide that the people of Canada cannot provide for themselves?

reply to post by MikeboydUS

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Its more of a psychological thing than anything. Its not like we actually rely upon the GG or Queen to intervene all the time; thus allowing politicians to be reckless.

Its a reminder to approach issues in more moderate, thoughtful, way instead of going all out for some extreme point of view. Its a reflection of a mind-set.

American politics sometimes looks like an all out brawl between polar opposite ideologies (at least in terms of rhetoric if nothing else) for supremacy. Most of Canada's fights are between much milder differences, although I think its become more disparate as time goes on.

It doesn't always work, obviously, but then that's true for any government. Its a relative thing.

All governments are run by people, and people are imperfect.
The best system is the one that deals with that reality head on.
I don't think that system has been invented yet.

reply to post by Nohup

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No offence dude but last time you guys screwed with us we burned down the whitehouse.
Take a look www.youtube.com...

reply to post by ARNOMANNN

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Glad i wasn't the only one who thought that was in bad taste.Thanks.

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Rook1545

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watch Canada crumble under the stupidity of it's current administrators and vehement supporters

That is not an answer to my questions at all. It is just doom and gloom with no basis in fact. Just because your guy didn't win (mine didn't either), does not mean that you can pitch a fit. These politicians need to start working together instead of having these little playground fights.


EDIT TO ADD:
I found this while reading online. I am going to call you out on your previous remark that they would have a budget ready when they took over. From CBC:

The NDP is prepared to get to work on a budget "right now," said Layton.

taken from this article

So obviously they have not even started and would not have one ready to go until at least January. So your assumption that this delay will cause problems is at the very best completely wrong. This coalition would have nothing ready, and it would still have to be agreeable to both the Liberals and the NDP.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by Rook1545]

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