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posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 04:38 PM
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i have a good friend who holds many of the same views you do (this is to QuietStorm), though he is not quite as extreme as you. He, you, and I agree--the education system has many flaws and does not often provide the most critical and basic parts of education (namely intuition, common sense). But he and i reached what i think is a good solution: suck the education system dry; use it to absorb the knowledgethat you want, not the opinions that so often come laong with it. Use it to further your own means. Be discerning about what you accept as the truth. Question everything. But don't bother to try and bring the system down by yourself or with others. This only serves to brand you as a heretic and cast you out of society. Rather, allow the system to fall under its own weight and step in to establish something better when it has.
now the rest of this is not advice to you... these are opinions and observations by me and i think they hold true... throughout history, everything falls at some point. Everything. Governments, civilizations, trends. But some have lasted longer than others. Why? i believe they fall because the system failed to adapt to changing circumstances. So the key to creating a long standing government or anything else is to constantly have the system reinvent itself; in the case of a governemnt, periodically, like once every five years, the government would make a complete analysis of how the situation and the needs of the constituents have changed since the last analysis. then, based on those findings, changes would be made to the government's structure and form, so that no extra, unneeded functions were left. This philosiphy can also be applied to the mentality of a person. in order not to become mentally stangnant, revisions of mental processes and thoughts must be reworked.
Granted, this is not easy.

and to QuietStorm, you're becoming rhetorical, just quote/reference your earlier arguments instead of reposting.

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by NothingMakesSense]




posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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Well mate i would at least try and get best you can in school i know its crap as i (and majority) felt the system was crap

But in the end you only do school once if better jobs are after "Paper Qualifications" give it to them

Also if u have Qualifications u can get jobs in special areas that you would prefer eg Mecanic if u like cars

Basicly they will give you more rights and oppertunites in life

Remember the best jobs arnt always the highest payed its the ones that you can do without being stressed and that you enjoy your job

A lot of people have jobs they hate

Try get a job in a field/area you enjoy

I neally did that as in school (near the end) i just didnt care because i thought it was going no where (even when i was trying) so i know how it feels (I wasnt exacly the top of the class eather)

But i managed to get where i wanted In a sence but if i tryed harder i guess i could of cut years off the education system and get to a good job with the proper qualifications from college a lot faster then advance (But only Just becuase i managed to get my act together before the main exams)

I only just got where i needed but if it had gone the other way (Lucky it didnt) i would of seriously had major problems/messed it up for the rest of my life

In the end its you who it effects and its you who will have to live with it (I neally learnt that the hard way) I also found out that there isnt always a "Way out" or "fix" and that people arnt gonna aid me or do it for me if i did mess up and i would be stuck with it for the rest of my life

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Crash]

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Crash]



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 04:43 PM
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if you want to base your existense on the idea that the "end is near". You know what, they have been wrong on all their dates so far..Believe me these people did some things and didnt do other things due to their belief of "cataclysm",. regret? you bet!

Many young kids can't see a future, especially their own.

I gave up in junior high because I "knew" I was going to die soon.

Here I am 30 years old....I could've done anything. My life is difficult now because I didnt work then.

Dont blow this opportunity...
It is likely, your views will not be respected --if even entertained --in the event you have'nt received a proper education.

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by xxKrisxx]



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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A lot of our ansestors have had a lot worse than us to get us where we are today and shed their blood and worked their asses off for what we have now


Seems like you've added this just after I replied to your post. Well if by that statement you are presenting that you think of me as a lazy person, then I think that is a great misconception.

I am certainly not a lazy person, and I AM willing to work for the things I want, in fact, the work is exactly what makes getting the things you want fun.


But not the way today's government and society makes us want to work, under enslavement. In fact, most of us give up ourselves and let the government, and society mold us, and let them tell us how we live our lives. That is unnacceptable to me, and I think me pubicly refusing to partake in this is really starting to wake up the masses of people. This is just the beginning, and soon the awakenings will be so many, so awareness will be so high that people will agree upon working together to change the way we live our lives, and take back our freedom.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 04:51 PM
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Dont worry

I never said/assumed you were lazy

I also share some of the same views as you (with the "enslavement" )

BUT

There is no easy way out of it as everyone is to reliable on the government

Also you dont always get second chances

Im just saying try doing what you need to do

Then when ya get far in life you wont need to care about the "enslavement" as the government would of "rewarded" you for your efforts in a sence

We might not have any choice in the matter but when they start giving you money and "treats" in a sence over something you dont have control over it will make you feel a lot better

(In some other countrys its slave labor)

Overthrowing your governments would be a very bad idea as they are your protectors

If u overthrew your government other governents from other countrys would expand theirs on your land also we would be back in the middle ages again or worse (When rome collapsed and Britain was invaded and run by "morons" (Dont know of another word for it) who couldnt care less and blamed all their probles on everything else like ghost ect)

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Crash]



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 04:52 PM
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I'm not going to try to persuade you differently because your are the most ignorant person I have ever heard of. And believe me I have seen alot of ignorant people at my schools.

All these cataclysms you speak of, where is the evidence of it. Only the winners write the history, tough, theres no other way to record history, better something than nothing.

You speak like you have the most common sense in the world, yet you have very little. If you really had common sense you would take advantage of the school system and learn what you could, instead you pass it all off as bull# because you think your "too smart" for it.

How exactly does the school system manipulate people by the way? I am not manipulated, yet I make all A's and B's in class. Society is something that forms naturally. Every social organism develops its own society, yet you seem to want to be a doomsayer and object to society because you feel cheated?

Perhaps you should read Fahrentheit 451, unless your too lazy, and see what ignorance will really get you (don't worry, its a short book).

You object to money and government. What would you propose we put in its place? Bartering? Do you just imagine yourself wandering the countryside stealing food and clothes for a living? You think that worldwide revolutions would be a good thing? If we kicked all governments out, we would be babbling fools back in the stoneage with blood on our hands. Humans need leadership, its common in societies without it, we kill each other. That is what History has taught me, what has it taught you?



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 05:06 PM
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if you want to base your existense on the idea that the "end is near". You know what, they have been wrong on all their dates so far..Believe me these people did some things and didnt do other things due to their belief of "cataclysm",. regret? you bet!


HAHAHAHAHA! They base their existance on the idea that the "end is near"?

Are you implying that I am? Well, people here are quick to assume, and accuse!

First, I don't think that I am going to die. Life will go on, but the system will change, and based on scientific research and, intuitive feelings and dreams I have had, I know,that we are going to experience massive changes.

2nd.... I am firmly against all cults/religions. Don't categorize me that way.



I gave up in junior high because I "knew" I was going to die soon.


Well I am sorry about that. It would have been better if you had a plan B. I have one.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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to all the folks (really, kids) complaining about school in this thread, please do us all a favor and don't bother with college. bachelor's degrees are damn near worthless as it is. why water down what's left?



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by MrJingles
I'm not going to try to persuade you differently because your are the most ignorant person I have ever heard of. And believe me I have seen alot of ignorant people at my schools.

All these cataclysms you speak of, where is the evidence of it. Only the winners write the history, tough, theres no other way to record history, better something than nothing.

You speak like you have the most common sense in the world, yet you have very little. If you really had common sense you would take advantage of the school system and learn what you could, instead you pass it all off as bull# because you think your "too smart" for it.

How exactly does the school system manipulate people by the way? I am not manipulated, yet I make all A's and B's in class. Society is something that forms naturally. Every social organism develops its own society, yet you seem to want to be a doomsayer and object to society because you feel cheated?

Perhaps you should read Fahrentheit 451, unless your too lazy, and see what ignorance will really get you (don't worry, its a short book).

You object to money and government. What would you propose we put in its place? Bartering? Do you just imagine yourself wandering the countryside stealing food and clothes for a living? You think that worldwide revolutions would be a good thing? If we kicked all governments out, we would be babbling fools back in the stoneage with blood on our hands. Humans need leadership, its common in societies without it, we kill each other. That is what History has taught me, what has it taught you?


I'm not even gonna waste my time. You are too judgemental.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by The Quiet Storm
Actually I was thinking more like getting a dropping out, then get a GED since its less work, and go to college, or a technical and see where I go from there.


It's less work huh? So you are just lazy..? Nah, don't worry, I'm semi-kidding.

I'm not sure what you're learning in school, but I can speak for myself that I had teachers who encouraged my creativity, and did not merely turn me into a "robot." I learned psychology, my politics/history teacher actually taught us of the lies we learned throughout our education, and tried to get us to think for ourselves and see truths. Perhaps it was because I went to a private school? I don't really know, but I do know that I received a great education and I'm no manufactured robot.

Most of the people on this board went through school, I'm sure, and have any of them turned into robots? Nope. We're all thinking "outside the box" yet we all went through the school system.

School is what you want it to be, really it is. If you crap your way through it with the kind of "this sucks, I'm not gonna learn or need any of this ever, they're just grinding me through a machine" that's the kind of education you'll get. You can really make it what you want it.

You seem to be a bit too caught up on what "might happen" in the future. The things you recomended should be taught in school (herbal medicine, etc) I don't think I'll ever have a use for, unless in the future I need to survive on my own or what have you; to me that's not an important thing to learn in school, if you want to learn it out of school go ahead, its your choice! Just live your life, man. Don't be scared of the future and feel that all is lost; like I said that seems like a sad excuse for not wanting to learn.

Let me also say this, you're young. You have a lot of life to live. You may think you know everything about your world, but you have so much to learn. I can say this with certainty because I'm not much older than you, and I was in your position (in hs) not too long ago. Seriously man, continue your education. Make school what you want it to be, and you'll get a lot more out of it.

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Faisca]



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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Yeah I see your point to some degree. It pretty much sounds like the same rhetoric BS I spilled out when I was your age. Some of it was just being burned out. I was tired of having to go to school everyday. I just wanted a break. Especially with all of the changes a teen goes through.

I only stayed in school cause I was a social bar fly in terms. I had to stay on top of where the parties and other social functions were going down. Well plus the ladies kept my interest on a high level.

My parents to some degree didn't give me any slack on my grades. Mainly because I did really well. My dad on occasion was always trying to tell me what his dreams for me were. Funny how they set these unachievable goals for you and expect you to achieve them just cause they can see it so plainly. Living someone else's dream isn't quite what most teens want to hear when we were at that time struggling so hard to be so independent and find our own identity.

Some how I viewed my parents as the enemy. Especially with all their rules and as long as you live here BS. How can they know what is good for me. They had no idea what it is like to be in school my days.

Not only did I not achieve my dad's goals I didn't achieve mine eighter. I got so lost on the way rebelling all the dreams and aspirations I had faded away.

You are at the pivoting point in your life. This is the moment now you have to decide what you want out of life and the best ways to acheive it. When you are young your intellectual and creative motor is at it's peak. Don't listen to anyone but yourself, seek out that which you want the most out of life and shoot for it and never look back.

Once you get out in the real world and burdened with bills and work. Your dream will slip so incandescently through your fingers.

Forget what people say about the school systems. You only get out of life what you put into it. So decide now what you want. Just because you live in a capitalists world doesn't mean you have to live by it's rules.

Find the one true thing that inspires you to want to continue. Even if it is as small as just getting married having kids and the white picket fence to becoming the voice to crush capitalism.

If you quit now then the capitalists win. You will be one more slave in the blue and white collar workforce to crack the whip to.

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Vonz]

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Vonz]



posted on Apr, 25 2004 @ 03:44 PM
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im with you Quite Storm. im 33 and left school with no qualifications NONE Nothing.
yet i have had a wonderful and adventuress life so far with lots of happiness and
sadness. sure i dont own anything i dont have a mortgage a pension life insurance
and i dont care because living is the only important thing . living your life how you
want to live it .

knowledge is useless unless u know what to do with it. some people
need to have goals and ambitions, and those people do tend to take it out on people
like myself because they cant stand to see someone living so freely, cause they had
to conform all their lives. work? well i have an i'll do most things as long as it pays
the rent attitude and theres always work for people who want to work and as long
as there not fussy. you get to meet the most interesting of people. i even met a man
once who had done nothing all his life but make cardboard boxes. hey funny enough
he was working alongside some people with degrees.

of course i might find myself living in a cardboard box one day. i think not. but i might
find one day people with degrees accusing me of living of their backs. i might find
myself working beyond the retirement age. infact i dont even consider retirement as
an option these days. sure i might feel different when im an old man but then i might
not. i lost all faith in the world in which we live and why i live the way i do. there are no
guarantees with life. although some people will try to make you believe there is.

Youre never to old to learn unless youre an ignorant old fart. and you might find in later
life that you want to get that degree for whatever reason and you can do. Their way
of life isnt for everyone but they try to make it your way thats were its all going wrong
in my opinion. it sounds like your heart burns for freedom like mine in a overpopulated
suffocating world were those with money get to buy their space and people like me
find sanctuary in quite fields in the country when the weather permits.

your still young and your views might change follow your heart cause you have one.
i dont talk with my family much because even though im 33 they still want to
impose the way i should have done things on me but i still love them and they still love
me. i left school unofficially when i was fifteen. i knew how to read write add up and
subtract. and im ok. with me common sense and good will prevail. hope this helped.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by The Quiet Storm
Ever since I became so aware (about a year ago) and realized the education system sucks, I stopped caring about how I do in school.

Knowing that in the future money will lose its value, and we will be struggling to survive the worldwide cataclysms, and experiencing major natural events, school seems useless. There will be no more "economy" or "jobs" that most people are currently struggling for being in school.


Fight the man.
Be an unskilled laborer whose turnover rates occur about every three months.

Apathy is tiresome, and - to use my favourite two words - "natural[ly] selective." If you don't feel that education is necessary, well...In some cases, dearest, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and play the game. I sat through school constantly with an internal conflict; I rarely agreed with what was being taught.

If you think fundamental societal values are bunk, then give them up and live in an airstream trailor in the midst of New Mexico with some WACO pamphlets and the Turner Diaries.

[Edited on 2-5-2004 by mauskov]

[Edited on 2-5-2004 by mauskov]



posted on May, 26 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by AD5673
Storm has a good point and seems well educated, but if you dont have schooling what are you going to end up as? What are you going to work at Mcdonalds asking people if they want fries with that? Or are you going to be succesful living in a mansion having money a family you can support go to diffrernt places around the world like 5 or 6 times aa year or even more. Have the best cars and just have a good life and help others because of schooling? Im trying hard in school because i ant to be succesful, and if WW3 starts seriously and i die well then i guess it was supposed to be that way


This is exactly the kind of attitude society has. We think that if we have a good home, a nice car and all the money for everything, that you have a good life. Nowadays, the "good life" is really just the lazy life. People in modern times are just trying to make things easier for themselves. Think about it. Today you go to the grocery store and buy your food with printed paper. What do you have to show for it? Nothing. Way back when , we used to hunt for food. We worked our tails off to find it and we learned the art of stealth and speed. We got a lot more exercise too. Now we just buy it eat it and sit and watch tv. That is probably why we are so diverse as humans. There is no comradery between humans. That's not saying that Native Americans tribes didn't fight, but they're families were probably more closely knit than anything today. They worked together to make things work. Nature was in full glory. If it wasn't for humans, this planet would be a worthwhille cause. It would let nature be by itself. Be at peace. It wouldn't have us screwing everything up because we feel like it's our right to. Humans think that they are better than everything and everyone living. We take evrything for our benefit. We are so selfish, that most of us would probably not give our life for a stranger but in my eyes, it is the most noble thing a person can do. Almost everyone that I know thinks that their life is more valuable than anyone elses. And think about this too: Would you give your life for an animal? Most of you would probably say no. But why would you? Is it because you feel like that animal is useless? You wouldn't say that if you were the animals mother or father. We don't think that there are other living things out there but there are. We are not the sole controllers of this planet and we need to stop thinking like that. Okay, I'm done with my little speech. But that attitude is just what is wrong with humans.


cma

posted on May, 26 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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Quiet Storm, I totally agree. That happens to me all the time, and in my past too. It really tics me off!



posted on May, 26 2004 @ 07:36 PM
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Please don't drop out of school. Do your work, and do it to the best of your abilities. Graduate high school, at the least. You do not want to have to live the life me and a majority of my family members have gone through. It's extremely hard these days to get a decent job without a diploma.

You want freedom from the government? It won't happen if you can't afford it. Maybe money will be worthless in a few years, but are you willing to gamble the rest of your life on it? Get your education.


cma

posted on May, 26 2004 @ 07:45 PM
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A constant struggle in society is known for survival of the fittest, but with today's environments, things have changed... for the worse.



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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May I cut in?


The thought that cataclysms are coming seems... ah... "vassalom-aleikum" to me
, yet I fully agree on everything else!!!

The knowledge one gets in schools is not bad itself, yet it

1. in ~90% cases is useless and unneeded.
Do you really need to know that AB2 = A2 * B2 ( or something )?
If one would suddenly need this level of math, he'd buy a book on it.
Do you really need to know the bio of some poet of the 18th century?

2. in ~90% this knowledge goes into one ear and out of the other.
We all learned math, chemistry, biology, etc. for over 10 years!
Does anybody remember something more then H2O or H2SO4 from it?
Yet we learned to ride a bike for less then a week and we'd never forget it.

3. we have two parts of the brain - logical and creative, intuitive.
All we do in school is train the logical part and leave out the creative, intuitive.
In the result we can operate with "data", but we can't create, invent anything of our own.

Moreover, sometimes unlucky, unfortunate grownups ( our teachers ) tend to stuff our heads with their own barriers and, pardon, stupidity!
Such as "this is good and this is bad", "this are our friend and this are our enemies", "you should have As in school, then you should go to collage, then start at a small job and build you career with hard work, step by step..." and other BS of that kind.

By this, destroying the true way of thinking, the true freedom of thinking of their child.

Anybody heard that Einstein was thrown out of collage because he refused to repeat after his teachers like a parrot. Mendeleyev had 2s ( bad ) in chemistry. Even Bill Gates did not graduate.

Self-knowledge is a great thing! It took me days to learn stuff that's more valuable them hundreds of years in collage! For example, energetic exercises that help one get and stay healthy within days/weeks. I assume health is more needed then some math formula?


>>The study of the human psyche is almost non existant. Students should learn about their psyche (conscious and their subconscious),
>>intuitive thinking, consciusness, learning their emotions and learning how to handle them without having to pay
>>for an external source to do this for them (psychiatrists, pills, etc.).

This knowledge does exist and the ones who have light in them, who are looking for it, do find it. Yet this knowledge might be rather dangerous in the hands of a weak person, the one who is controlled only by his instincts. Would you give this knowledge to someone who's top wish is a Mercedes 600, 1m$ and to have two girls at a time? Most of the world is not ready for that knowledge... and most are not looking for it. Most are happy with their "blind" life, with not seeing anything, with others telling them what is good and what' bad.

For example, energetic exercises I mentioned that make one healthy and more-or-less publicly available. Then why do we still see lots and lots of ill people? Because they are not interested, because they are too lazy to look for their healthy. They want a doctor to look after it. Because they want to put their problems one someone's else shoulders.

Don't let this light in you fade away! Walk your own path, don't listen to the "sleeping" people, they don't know what they're saying, they are just repeating each other. Try opening your intuition, keep looking.


Good Luck!



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 12:42 PM
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Perhaps you guys should call your local congressman and complain to them to stop cutting out education funds



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 02:41 PM
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Storm, I can totally relate to what you're saying because I gave up on school myself. Although for different reasons. I grew up in the 80's and was simply into punk music, skateboarding and partying. To this day, it's my biggest regret even tho I now have my diploma and went to college. I wished I'd done better in highschool. As a matter of fact, I'd wished I'd done my best. I'm doing great now, but basically gave away a few years that I can't get back. My point to you is, your mind needs to develop and especially if these cataclysms happen like you think. You do sound pretty smart as it is. If you can, get through highschool, you won't regret it. As for your dad, your relationship with him is important too. Try and have a heart to heart with him, I'm sure you may have already, don't give up on him. You need your family, and again, especially if these cataclysm's happen!! Hang in there!!

[edit on 3-8-2004 by livenlearn]




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