Metal Gear Solid?

Is it just me or does Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty have a lot to do with conspiracies?

While it's not like Deus Ex per se, with a whole myriad of conspiracies such as Aliens/UFOs, Secret Societies, the New World Order, Science and Technology, Medicine, Religion, it's more concentrated on the basics, of simply conspiring. But it's references to current issues such as genetic enhancement military projects, etc., are hard to miss.

Anybody got other ideas?

[Edited on 3-4-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Yes, look, most video games have elements of conspiracies in them - it's part of their appeal. Why do you think there are so many people on this site and others like it. People enjoy being paranoid. They like to explore the unknown. It satisfies their senses of adventure.

Another name for conspiracy in the context of games, movies, and books is plot twist. There was another thread like this about a week ago about the 'conspiracy' related technologies in the Command and Conquer game. They add those cutting-edge technologies into their games because people are getting pretty bored with the technologies that exist currently.

Comanches are cool...
Aurora Bombers are cool...
EMP blasts and microwave tanks are COOL...

So that's why. So they can sell more copies of the product. In any conspiracy, always follow the money trail. Especially if someone is trying to sell something based on a conspiracy. That's the REAL conspiracy!!!

There you go. You're welcome.
DeltaChaos

[Edited on 3-4-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Isn't there a topin on here, where someone compared the legends of zelda and the illuminati? That was funny. And then you've got the ninja games that always have somekind of political plot/conspiracy in them.

Originally posted by IKnowNothing
Isn't there a topin on here, where someone compared the legends of zelda and the illuminati? That was funny. And then you've got the ninja games that always have somekind of political plot/conspiracy in them.

Illuminati? Triforce? Triangle? Little green man? Yeah, I can see that...

And a ninja game just wouldn't be a ninja game without some element of political conspiracy.

DC

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Is it just me or does Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty have a lot to do with conspiracies?

Yes, and, as mentioned by others, so do a lot of other games as well. I, personally, love the exploitation of the "Fifth Freedom" as used in Splinter Cell (my favorite game of all time). That game, with its basis in fact, shows exactly how much 'Liberty' the government allows themselves when the 'need' arises.

Originally posted by Cappa

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Is it just me or does Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty have a lot to do with conspiracies?

Yes, and, as mentioned by others, so do a lot of other games as well. I, personally, love the exploitation of the "Fifth Freedom" as used in Splinter Cell (my favorite game of all time). That game, with its basis in fact, shows exactly how much 'Liberty' the government allows themselves when the 'need' arises.

I found that "Fifth Freedom" subject interesting as well. What I liked about Splinter Cell, though, was how it didn't try to say it was "necessary" per se. It just said there is a Fifth Freedom.

But perhaps it show something about the government we live under. That alone gives Splinter Cell a conspiracy for itself.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I found that "Fifth Freedom" subject interesting as well. What I liked about Splinter Cell, though, was how it didn't try to say it was "necessary" per se. It just said there is a Fifth Freedom.

Yes, in the game, every time the "Fifth Freedom" was invoked, Sam Fisher's superior had to get permission from the joint chiefs (of staff). Which pretty much means the JC's don't necessarily involve the President in the least. That, if you think about it, is the scary part. Mainly because it eliminates the balance of power-- the one thing that a lot of liberals and congressmen and judges (and pretty much everyone except them) fear the most is Army/Navy/Marine Generals exercising assassination without their approval.

But perhaps it show something about the government we live under. That alone gives Splinter Cell a conspiracy for itself.

Indeed it does, but the funny thing is, things like this are not brought under scrutiny nor do they help bring these conspiratorical aspects of the gov't into light. I mean, really, the last time I heard anything about any video game in the news was for Grand Theft Auto 3/Vice City-- and how violent they were.

I could give a rats arse about the UNLIMITED violence in video games, of which GTA3/VC really was just a grand display of such. I would much rather see a White House reporter stand up and ask the President directly to explain the "Fifth Freedom" on national TV. I would pay to see that, as a matter of fact, because THAT'S the sort of thing that would force some sort of change in the U.S.

Originally posted by Cappa
Yes, in the game, every time the "Fifth Freedom" was invoked, Sam Fisher's superior had to get permission from the joint chiefs (of staff). Which pretty much means the JC's don't necessarily involve the President in the least. That, if you think about it, is the scary part. Mainly because it eliminates the balance of power-- the one thing that a lot of liberals and congressmen and judges (and pretty much everyone except them) fear the most is Army/Navy/Marine Generals exercising assassination without their approval.

That is an interesting observation. However, I don't find it particularly scary. What is scary to me is military operations as a political tool. I believe in the more philosophical aspect of war, and this is why I believe the politician is always more dangerous than the military man. A politician fights on either ideals or aspiration. He doesn't know what war is really about, which is why he thinks he can use military forces however he sees fit. I would rather trust our nation to the JCS rather than a president, who is clouded by his own arrogance and wishes

Indeed it does, but the funny thing is, things like this are not brought under scrutiny nor do they help bring these conspiratorical aspects of the gov't into light. I mean, really, the last time I heard anything about any video game in the news was for Grand Theft Auto 3/Vice City-- and how violent they were.

I could give a rats arse about the UNLIMITED violence in video games, of which GTA3/VC really was just a grand display of such. I would much rather see a White House reporter stand up and ask the President directly to explain the "Fifth Freedom" on national TV. I would pay to see that, as a matter of fact, because THAT'S the sort of thing that would force some sort of change in the U.S.

Dude, that was so deep. And so true too. I think a big problem America has is it's inability to balance or see what the big issues are. For one thing, violent video games are works of art. You can't criticize art. If you don't like it, then don't look at it. But the "Fifth Freedom" thing, for example, is totally different. Fifth Freedom, if it's a way of doing things in America, is a very serious matter. You can erase art or not look at it, but you can't do that to a way a country works or how it treats it's people or other people of the world. That is far more serious than a work of art you can completely avoid and is rudimently harmless.

In fact, what you said reminds me of the song "You Get What You Give" by the New Radicals. It was a huge hit, one of my favorites, but it was contrevorsial because of it's final line:

Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson,
Courtney Love and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes run to your mansions,
Come around, we'll kick your @$$ in!

Let's admit it, challenging other, bigger celebs, the big fish so to speak with big fan bases will generate hostility. But let's look at the lyrics just before the final line:

Health insurance rip-off lying
F.D.A big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying

Those were huge issues of the day (1998, and some are still big today. H.M.O. corruption, insurance scams of all sorts, corporate corruption, cloning, and if it doesn't work, clone again. But people didn't notice those issues, they saw the direct challenge to the other celebs and made a big deal out of that. New Radicals said it themselves, they wanted to see just how "off" people really were. Boy were they right! The results of the song showed that celebreties and entertainment are far more important than the issues on how our country runs. Or, the term the New Radicals used, the REAL issues. And we all know what the real issues are.

Good point. I'm very glad you brought it up.



[Edited on 4-4-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Dude, that was so deep. And so true too. I think a big problem America has is it's inability to balance or see what the big issues are. For one thing, violent video games are works of art. You can't criticize art. If you don't like it, then don't look at it. But the "Fifth Freedom" thing, for example, is totally different. Fifth Freedom, if it's a way of doing things in America, is a very serious matter. You can erase art or not look at it, but you can't do that to a way a country works or how it treats it's people or other people of the world. That is far more serious than a work of art you can completely avoid and is rudimently harmless.

That's exactly why I said I could give a rats arse about the violence in video games (heh, despite the fact I personally LIKE the violence, but thats another issue).
And I agree with you as well.

The exceptionally funny thing to me is, how is it that these 24-hour news channels can't find more than 5 issues per day to talk about? If I had the money and resources to run a cable channel, it would be the 'Conspiracy Channel', and it would be full of the crap that most people want to hear about. But thats a little off my intended subject...

There are literally thousands of news stories that could be talked about-- they just aren't. I imagine there are hundreds of 'people with power' that order their subordinates to make phone calls to news organizations in order to stave off (or completely bury) certain news stories. Either that, or far worse, that the global conglomerates that own the news channels force things to not be spoken about, for such meager and measely issues as something that could mean so much to the public on the whole, yet the loss of the conglomerate might be of such miniscule value-- the loss of money from a recalled item (Ford Explorer tires), to the interest of the gov't in not revealing its weaknesses (the afforementioned attempted bomb attack on Fort Monmouth, NJ that was snowballed and hardly spoken on in the media).

Forgive me, I get carried away.

And we all know what the real issues are.

Good point. I'm very glad you brought it up.

Gracias, gracias. You bring well-laid points as well friend.

Metal GEar Solid 2 was the ultimate game. Atleast I thougth the story even thou silly at times with all them double crosses was great. Ideas, supression etc so cool.

db.gamefaqs.com...

Read that. It goes in depth on the games theme. Even if you never played the game its a good read.

Cappa,

The thing is, America is controlled by finance. if it doesn't make money, it'll fail. So something like a "Conspiracy Channel" will never fly because how many people are open-minded enough to take an interest in that? Not many Like you say, there are thousands of stories never told. If it's not something that'll keep people glued to their television, it's not worth mentioning. Why write a story on something as undefined, theoretical as conspiracy theories when you can write about Paris Hilton and her many adventures, some of which were on videotape?

Just like my New Radicals example. Marilyn Manson's anger was far more interesting than the reference to corporate corruption and America's evil health care system.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
The thing is, America is controlled by finance. if it doesn't make money, it'll fail. So something like a "Conspiracy Channel" will never fly because how many people are open-minded enough to take an interest in that? Not many Like you say, there are thousands of stories never told. If it's not something that'll keep people glued to their television, it's not worth mentioning. Why write a story on something as undefined, theoretical as conspiracy theories when you can write about Paris Hilton and her many adventures, some of which were on videotape?

Oh I know all about it. heh, I said 'if i were rich', which would mean I'd be more than willing to take that loss for the sake of running the channel for atleast a month-- with massive amounts of advertising on other networks... The programming would be concentrated, and 12-hour repetitive (such as they do on the History channel, repeating the morning 12-hour lineup in the afternoon). And I believe that the channel itself will spur a growth of interest in the conspiratorical subjects-- as long as they're delivered with accuracy and legitimacy. It seems, these days, that everywhere I go I meet more and more people who see the deceit by gov't and coverup, and it pisses them off. A normal cable channel might just be what we need. *However, I do believe it will fail (not because of the reason you mentioned), because our advertisers would abandon us one-by-one as our stories explored any and all possibilities (unlike the sci-fi channel that maintains its 'fiction' angle).

One side note regarding 'America is controlled by finance': America is indebted to countries like China by an annual defecit of atleast 8 billion (I believe the statistic is, we/U.S. export to China about $8B and import atleast $16B annually).

wow... sweat...thanks for bringing this up.

call me a pansy, but those scenes near the end where the colonel talks in that voice and changes shape... just scares the pants out of me. i mean, really scary stuff. why? I have no idea.

like that part where he says "turn your game console off now" actually worked on me!!! I was like "what the hell?!" and turned it off!! sounds silly, i know, but im getting chills remembering this stuff?

something about that voice really pins it on me... that elecrobuzzing (not a word) mixture sounds awfully familiar and very unpleasant. and that shapeshifting... eek! I kinda wanna play it and finish the game and kinda don't... that last boss is so hard and I don't wanna go through those codecs again. ugh; i can be such a wuss sometimes

anyone had any similar experiences?

I'm definately a big fan of the MGS and Splinter Cell games. I can't wait to get Pandora Tomorrow for the gamecube. I was kind of disappointed in the first game's story. I wanted more intrigue, plot twists, and conspiracy (something like MGS or Deus Ex) but I just got a technology war between US and Georgia... Kind of sad. Hopefully Pandora Tomorrow will be more like what I want. That said, Splinter Cell 1 was a sweet stealth game. I also cant wait for MGS3:Snake Eater. I'm sure it'll have its fair share of cool plot twists.

Did anyone actually become interested in this type of conspiracy stuff because of a video game? That was the case with me. When I first played Deus Ex (one of my top 3 favorite games of all time) was the first time I heard of the Illuminati, and I've been hooked on this stuff ever since. Did this happen to anyone else?

Oh, and Omega I definately know what you're talking about with the Colonel. That freaked the crap outta me too. My roommate just played through the game again, and I got to see how much of a mess the end was. It's damn sweet tho.

Originally posted by AlnilamOmega
wow... sweat...thanks for bringing this up.

call me a pansy, but those scenes near the end where the colonel talks in that voice and changes shape... just scares the pants out of me. i mean, really scary stuff. why? I have no idea.

like that part where he says "turn your game console off now" actually worked on me!!! I was like "what the hell?!" and turned it off!!

sounds silly, i know, but im getting chills remembering this stuff?

something about that voice really pins it on me... that elecrobuzzing (not a word) mixture sounds awfully familiar and very unpleasant. and that shapeshifting... eek! I kinda wanna play it and finish the game and kinda don't... that last boss is so hard and I don't wanna go through those codecs again. ugh; i can be such a wuss sometimes

anyone had any similar experiences?

I actually never beat MGS:2 by myself, it took me and my friend's uncle to do it. Then, he beat it and we went over there to watch the ending-- I fell asleep watching the 2-hour feature-like movie ending. I kept waiting for the damn thing to end, and passed out.

Originally posted by Cappa
Oh I know all about it. heh, I said 'if i were rich', which would mean I'd be more than willing to take that loss for the sake of running the channel for atleast a month-- with massive amounts of advertising on other networks... The programming would be concentrated, and 12-hour repetitive (such as they do on the History channel, repeating the morning 12-hour lineup in the afternoon). And I believe that the channel itself will spur a growth of interest in the conspiratorical subjects-- as long as they're delivered with accuracy and legitimacy. It seems, these days, that everywhere I go I meet more and more people who see the deceit by gov't and coverup, and it pisses them off. A normal cable channel might just be what we need. *However, I do believe it will fail (not because of the reason you mentioned), because our advertisers would abandon us one-by-one as our stories explored any and all possibilities (unlike the sci-fi channel that maintains its 'fiction' angle).

One side note regarding 'America is controlled by finance': America is indebted to countries like China by an annual defecit of atleast 8 billion (I believe the statistic is, we/U.S. export to China about $8B and import atleast $16B annually).

I guess it's worth of shot, if you can finance it. But you have to consider the possibility the government may try something funny. They'd probably burn down the studio or something and call it an electrical fire. Something very subtle. Otherwise, if it was obvious it was the government, then it would give it all away.

Originally posted by AlnilamOmega
wow... sweat...thanks for bringing this up.

call me a pansy, but those scenes near the end where the colonel talks in that voice and changes shape... just scares the pants out of me. i mean, really scary stuff. why? I have no idea.

like that part where he says "turn your game console off now" actually worked on me!!! I was like "what the hell?!" and turned it off!!

sounds silly, i know, but im getting chills remembering this stuff?

something about that voice really pins it on me... that elecrobuzzing (not a word) mixture sounds awfully familiar and very unpleasant. and that shapeshifting... eek! I kinda wanna play it and finish the game and kinda don't... that last boss is so hard and I don't wanna go through those codecs again. ugh; i can be such a wuss sometimes

anyone had any similar experiences?

OKay, I haven't even gotten near the end, so I'm glad that I stopped reading your post.

PHew, that was close!

Faisca,

Unfortunately, Splinter Cell is very different from MGS and Deus Ex. SC is more of a real-world espionage simulation. Also, it was made by Tom Clancy, so you know that conspiracies are a no-no in his book. If it's meant to praise the U.S., then forget conspiracies.

MGS and Deus Ex are not real-world simulations of American military and political might (actually, they kind of are, just not in a positive way). Which makes them better. I liked MGS and Deus Ex on an entertainment level because of their depth, atmosphere (a hugely underrated aspect of games), and their deep, involving, stories. A reason hy I don't read PC Gamer anymore is that one of their guys actually said Splinter Cell had a more coherent and compelling story. That just goes to show you the level of intelligence of most Americans!

Alert!

Brand New Splinter Cell - Coming Soon!

I'll have to re-buy XBOX, Splinter Cell and the new SC when I get out of basic training...

ummmmmmm.....a lot of games are about conspiracies. that's what's cool now a days in the video game world.