Flight Global leaks Airbus report on the 787 program

Flight Global have a very interesting piece on a 46 page internal report prepared by Airbus on the Boeing 787 program, entitled 'Boeing 787 Lessons Learnt' covers many of the issues at Boeing and has raised quite a few eyebrows.

www.flightglobal.com...

Such points covered include both engine suppliers (GE with the GEnx and RR with the Trent 1000) missing fuel burn targets for their engines by between 3 and 6%, weight gains and problems ramping up production.

When you read this report, bear in mind that it is not a public report - Airbus put this together as an internal report only, so don't get carried away with some of the phraseology.

Also, I will make a note now (because of arguments ongoing on other forums over this) - a lot of the information contained is marked 'Boeing Proprietary'. This does not mean Airbus has done anything wrong by either obtaining it nor distributing it internally.

Under US and European law, Boeing has to prove economical gain from having the information remain a secret, and they also have to prove that they took steps to keep the information secret. Simply stamping 'Proprietary' on a document gives you no legal recourse at all. And no, 'But I now cant sell more of my product at the price point I used to be able to' does not constitute economical gain, although that may sound paraxodical.

Vought and mitsubishi seem to have run into all sorts of serious problems - that and the forcast of 7 airframes per year based upon historical ramp ups seems on the money - that and ANA won`t get an aircraft next year either due to LN1 > LN7 needing to be stripped and rebuilt :O

Originally posted by RichardPrice
When you read this report, bear in mind that it is not a public report - Airbus put this together as an internal report only, so don't get carried away with some of the phraseology.

re the thread: Good spot!!!


re the internal nature: Probably means its more accurate since there is no PR BS attached.


re the 787: FUBAR (which is entirely in keeping with the A400M - also FUBAR'd far beyond what is reported)

The fubar with the A400M is again suppliers - Marshalls really have f*****d themselves royally over this one.

Good find

No doubt both airframe companies have spies digging up information so Its not all that surprising

Thanks for posting it here

Originally posted by Harlequin
The fubar with the A400M is again suppliers - Marshalls really have f*****d themselves royally over this one.

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

Although the report might prove to be embarrassing for Boeing there are two plus points for them in all this;

When they read this they will not only see what Airbus knows about the 787, but also, from the information that is missing or wrong, what they don't know.

They can utilise this in the KC-X competition by pointing the finger at the sneaky, untrustworthy Europeans bidding for a major defence contract.

Illegal or not, mud sticks.





[edit on 9-12-2008 by waynos]

Originally posted by waynos

They can utilise this in the KC-X competition by pointing the finger at the sneaky, untrustworthy Europeans bidding for a major defence contract.

Illegal or not, mud sticks.

Equally, Airbus can require Boeing to prove its allegations, or face a lawsuit for defamation - as you say, mud sticks...

As it stands, there is nothing that Airbus has done that is obviously illegal.

On the flip side, Airbus can look at Boeing and say 'hey, as a defence contractor, your supply chain is pretty leaky dontcha think?'

[edit on 9/12/2008 by RichardPrice]

Yes, but the Americans do tend towards paranoia somewhat so the fact that EADS are 'outsiders' might give a bit more power to Boeings elbow.

I hope not, but I can see how it might.

Originally posted by waynos
Yes, but the Americans do tend towards paranoia somewhat so the fact that EADS are 'outsiders' might give a bit more power to Boeings elbow.

I hope not, but I can see how it might.

I actually agree with this. This will be used to great effect with the US congress which in this time of layoffs, economic depression will play big. esp with 1/3 of the senate AND the House which will be up for re-election in 2 years. No one will want to have to campaign agisnt having supported a foreign airframe no matter where it is built.

Originally posted by FredT
No one will want to have to campaign agisnt having supported a foreign airframe no matter where it is built.

Boeing had better stick with the 767 then as the base airframe.... the 777 and 787 are as much 'foreign' as the A330

But the mere fact of them being called 'Boeing 7something7' makes them as American as Apple Pie (which is actually English, as is Cheesecake) in peoples eyes, and that is what Boeing and the politicians, will play on to the max. Minor trivia, such as reality and truth, only complicates the argument.

BBC has a report that this aircraft has had it's launch postponed again, will probably be a push to get it delivered in 2010 at this rate?

Boeing has delayed again the launch of its 787 Dreamliner aircraft, blaming a strike by machinists and persistent production problems. The 787's first test flight is now expected to take place in the second quarter of 2009, a few months later than planned. Boeing still aims at delivering the first Dreamliner in 2010.

BBC




[edit on 11-12-2008 by solidshot]