CNN,UFO's Calling all Aliens SETI

Originally posted by NavalFC

Originally posted by DroolsAlot

Originally posted by NavalFC

Originally posted by DroolsAlot

Originally posted by arbiture
reply to post by DroolsAlot

 

If, as SETI said itself recently, all our electromagnetic emmisions are hopelessly "diluted" at only 2.0 light years from Earth, we will have a very long wait indeed.

Well, that all depends on if the ufos are within 2 light years away. I do know that many of the sightings he have seen are within earths atmosphere. And some even on video captured by our satilites. Those are the ones that we would be most likely to get anything from.

The closest star to Earth is 4 light years away, so the nearest the aliens could be, If indeed they exist, is 4 light years.

So your saying that if there is aliens, that they live near a star and cant travel. Is that what you were saying?

Huh? No. I said if they were on a planet around alpha centauri they would be 4 light years away. I said nothing of the ability to travel.

Only that if we were trying to pick up transmissions from ther planet, the closest it would likely be is 4 light years

Naval, You said this "The closest star to Earth is 4 light years away, so the nearest the aliens could be, If indeed they exist, is 4 light years"

Im saying that if there are aliens, ets, and they can travel, your point is invalid.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Jill Tarter holds a PhD in Astronomy from UC Berkeley, a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Scientist, and a fellow of the California Academy of Sciences, she co-created a catalog of stars which may hold habitable worlds, and has been a director of various SETI projects. But apparently, since she does not believe in extraterrestrial visitation, she obviously has no idea of what she is looking at when she looks up in the night sky.

Yeah sure she's a trained observer on paper, but in practice, she is obviously not a trained observer. Need I clarify more on this issue?

I haven't attacked her based on whether she believes of extraterrestrial visitation or not, I'm attacking her based on her incompetence.

I am not some fundamentalist believer as you say, if you ever took the time to actually get to know me, you'll know that I'm one of the most skeptical people out there. But if you ever asked me to take the word of a government or pro-government organization, I'd say never. You obviously think highly of SETI, why not present for us a short essay on their many glorious achievements.

And it is in my observation and opinion, that people who start off by calling others closed minded, are the ones that are most closed minded and affected by any talk that goes against their core beliefs.

reply to post by DroolsAlot



Were not talking about travel. I am referring to their home planet.

Originally posted by DroolsAlot

Originally posted by NavalFC

Originally posted by DroolsAlot

Originally posted by NavalFC

Originally posted by DroolsAlot

Originally posted by arbiture
reply to post by DroolsAlot

 

If, as SETI said itself recently, all our electromagnetic emmisions are hopelessly "diluted" at only 2.0 light years from Earth, we will have a very long wait indeed.

Well, that all depends on if the ufos are within 2 light years away. I do know that many of the sightings he have seen are within earths atmosphere. And some even on video captured by our satilites. Those are the ones that we would be most likely to get anything from.

The closest star to Earth is 4 light years away, so the nearest the aliens could be, If indeed they exist, is 4 light years.

So your saying that if there is aliens, that they live near a star and cant travel. Is that what you were saying?

Huh? No. I said if they were on a planet around alpha centauri they would be 4 light years away. I said nothing of the ability to travel.

Only that if we were trying to pick up transmissions from ther planet, the closest it would likely be is 4 light years

Naval, You said this "The closest star to Earth is 4 light years away, so the nearest the aliens could be, If indeed they exist, is 4 light years"

Im saying that if there are aliens, ets, and they can travel, your point is invalid.

Yep!!! Hes a Flea that wont stop biting believe me? (NAVALFC)

ONE BIG MUTTHER SKEPTIC!!!

Anyway getting back to post, Seti was also shown here on Aussie TV so it looks like world wide coverage but very tame



[edit on 8-12-2008 by Bob Down Under]

reply to post by NavalFC


my point is seti do not restrict themselves they are physically restricted by the limitations of our technology and the nature of the cosmos.

They do not decide themselves to ignore a range of frequencies they are forced to. Are you getting it yet?

fyi they would need an array with a collecting area the size of colorado roughly 270,000 square kilometers, we dont even have an array that covers 1 square kilometer yet.

Originally posted by Majorion
Yeah sure she's a trained observer on paper, but in practice, she is obviously not a trained observer. Need I clarify more on this issue?

I haven't attacked her based on whether she believes of extraterrestrial visitation or not, I'm attacking her based on her incompetence.

And your criteria for proclaiming her incompetent? She made one mistake, which you admit even trained observers can make, despite her various achievements and positions. Nope, because she works for SETI, made one mistake, she's incompetent and an idiot.

Perhaps you could list your various accomplishments and achievements, to show us how you are qualified to make such a judgement about someone. Of course, you're the one who thought SETI was a government funded program; oh, but Dr. Tarter is the incompetent one, and you're the informed one.

Originally posted by Majorion
You obviously think highly of SETI, why not present for us a short essay on their many glorious achievements.

In so far as SETI detecting an alien signal, have they accomplished this? No, of course not. Otherwise, we would not be having this conversation. But then again, the UFO believers have not managed to prove life-exists beyond the planet either. But for some reason, these closed-minded hypocrites feel it warranted to bash SETI for something they themselves have failed to accomplish.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by SaviorComplex]

reply to post by yeti101


Ok, be hat as it may Im saying SETI is very limited in scope. DOnt get me wrong, I am not one of those UFO believers who bashes SETI out of pure spite, as my post record shows I take nonsense and I beat it like a Red headed step child.

Im just saying our ability to detect alien signlans is very limited.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

And your criteria for proclaiming her incompetent? She made one mistake, which you admit even trained observers can make, despite her various achievements and positions. Nope, because she works for SETI, made one mistake, she's incompetent and an idiot.

When I admittedly said that trained observers make mistakes, I wasn't referring to her particular mistake as an example. And again, I'll maintain that she obviously is NOT a competent trained observer capable of discerning whether UFOs are even real or not, let alone make a negative judgment about the issue just because she works for SETI who are similarly a hopeless and incompetent organization.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Perhaps you could list your various accomplishments and achievements, to show us how you are qualified to make such a judgement about someone. Of course, you're the one who thought SETI was a government funded program; oh, but Dr. Tarter is the incompetent one, and you're the informed one.

I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else on ATS for that matter, I'm interested solely in open minded discussion, I haven't asked you for your own credentials just because you differ in opinion. Nor have I started off by calling you "closed minded" as you did with me along with the "fundamentalist believer" nickname. And you're twisting my words, I have not stated that the Government fund SETI, but I have suggested that SETI is a pro-government organization, whether they are funded by the government or not, isn't important anyways. They are the puppets of the government. Same argument for NASA. And no, I'm not particularly informed by any specific source, but again I have researched this subject for quite a while.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
In so far as SETI detecting an alien signal, have they accomplished this? No, of course not. Otherwise, we would not be having this conversation. But then again, the UFO believers have not managed to prove life-exists beyond the planet either. But for some reason, these closed-minded hypocrites feel it warranted to bash SETI for something they themselves have failed to accomplish.

UFO believers? .. I can understand your frustration with all these new age groups who have taken it upon themselves to believe what they want to believe. I've noticed and recognized this problem ever since I started researching this subject years ago, and this IS the fundamental problem with UFOlogy, I am not one of "those people", nor am I a hypocrite because of the conclusions I have come to based on my own research and experiences, you have mistaken and confused my opinion with those who have the UFO belief complex. I'm not really sure if I'm making myself clear enough to you. I am against the ridiculous crap in this field just as you are, but I must point out that if you're actually defending SETI or NASA for that matter, then I'm sorry to say that you aren't exactly informed yourself.

One last thing, assuming SETI ever do detect or receive an alien signal(which will NEVER happen), do you really expect them to even tell you straight away if it did happen, or would they not need the approval of a higher power?

reply to post by Majorion

SETI who are similarly a hopeless and incompetent organization.

what makes you think that? i can only assume its complete ignorance of the subject matter but go ahead and surpirse me.

They are the puppets of the government

so you think they spend their lifes work doing soimething as a coverup for the government and not getting paid? why dont they just do something else like conventional radio astronomy do yoiu think anyone would get any satisfaction out of running a make beleive project for decades just to please the "government" of which theres been many? It doesnt make any sense.

But i suppose if someone thinks the thousands employed by nasa are all in on a coverup in their mind anything is possible.

One last thing, assuming SETI ever do detect or receive an alien signal(which will NEVER happen), do you really expect them to even tell you straight away if it did happen, or would they not need the approval of a higher power?

theyre not funded by the government so they dont answer to the government. The first people to find out will be the major donors like paul allen then yes i expect them to tell the world of the discovery theyve spent their lives searching for.

also i'm interested to know why you think detecting an artificial radio signal will "NEVER" happen?

reply to post by yeti101

yoiu think anyone would get any satisfaction out of running a make beleive project for decades just to please the "government" of which theres been many? It doesnt make any sense.

You took the words right out of my mouth, a "make believe project" is indeed what SETI is. Of course it doesn't make any sense to you, so let me clarify a little more.. When I said that SETI were puppets for the government, I didn't mean that they directly work with the government in accordance with the UFO coverup. However, it is obvious that knowingly or unknowingly they serve such a purpose. Decades of a hopeless dream, you really believe that you'll ever get the word from them? I can assure you, NEVER.

But i suppose if someone thinks the thousands employed by nasa are all in on a coverup in their mind anything is possible.

Twist my words yeti101, NASA are involved in the UFO coverup as I said in some other post, but I never said that the thousands of employees were involved, that is NOT my opinion. It would NOT require everyone to know, it would only require the few at the top. Let me explain to you what NASA really is in simple terms, they are the "public" space agency. You believe that "official" organizations like NASA are the only ones to exist. Secret space program ring a bell? Clear enough for ya?

theyre not funded by the government so they dont answer to the government. The first people to find out will be the major donors like paul allen then yes i expect them to tell the world of the discovery theyve spent their lives searching for. also i'm interested to know why you think detecting an artificial radio signal will "NEVER" happen?

Ugggh, you have such a short attention span. It's funny how you say "the first people to find out will be" as if it's ever going to happen. It is a hopeless cause that even the most optimistic scientists doubt. That is their purpose, "to never make contact". Their life's work can be summed up in those words.

Detecting an artificial radio signal HAS HAPPENED more than once, only it wasn't extraterrestrial, they made contact with planes in the sky . Just comes to prove my point about them being incompetent, and the fact that you even ask that question shows how much you know about the institute you're defending. Do some research.

reply to post by Majorion

im off out to play football but will be back in a couple of hours, I'll address some of your points then. Ta - Ta

Originally posted by DroolsAlot
So your saying that if there is aliens, that they live near a star and cant travel. Is that what you were saying?

Well, we have the ability to receive radio signals, but can't travel beyond our Moon.

I think it is entirely possible (maybe even probable) for there to be other civilizations just like us who can receive radio waves but do not have the ability for interstellar travel.

[edit on 12/8/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Majorion


the government doesnt even fund seti and hasnt done for years. Its all through private donations...

Even if the govt does not fund SETI - they are still more than happy to let it do what it does as a distraction from what is really going on. Why would the govt complain or try to nix something that makes UFO/ET/Space hunters look like simpletons with an unsuccessful attempt to contact things beyond Earth. The less that is found/received or proven about UFOs/ETs (by independent groups/seekers) the more the govt likes it. Like they don't already have a few ETs lounging around the underground bases?

As for projects like SETI - The possibility exists that the ETs may very well be receiving all of our messages (radiowaves, etc) - but really do not want to introduce themselves to the masses right now.
Remember - they ARE allegedly "intelligent" life.

Originally posted by Majorion
When I admittedly said that trained observers make mistakes, I wasn't referring to her particular mistake as an example. And again, I'll maintain that she obviously is NOT a competent trained observer capable of discerning whether UFOs are even real or not...

So, trained observers can and do make mistakes, but because Dr. Tarter made a mistake, she isn't a trained observer and incompetent. Rather specious reasoning.

You seem to have a particular hatred for this woman. You insult her intelligence and competence, for the only reason that "she made a mistake."

Originally posted by Majorion
are similarly a hopeless and incompetent organization.

Why is SETI an incompetent and hopeless organization again?

Originally posted by Majorion
They are the puppets of the government. Same argument for NASA. And no, I'm not particularly informed by any specific source, but again I have researched this subject for quite a while.

And your basis for this is what, again? Sorry, we are going to need a little more than your word alone.

Originally posted by Majorion
I am not one of "those people"

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Originally posted by Majorion
One last thing, assuming SETI ever do detect or receive an alien signal(which will NEVER happen), do you really expect them to even tell you straight away if it did happen, or would they not need the approval of a higher power?

First, that is a huge assumption to make. How do you know they will never detect or recieve a signal?

Second, perhaps you've never heard of Wow! Signal, LGM-1, or Radio source SHGb02+14a? While they may or may not be alien signals (and in the case of LGM-1, proved to be something else), those behind the various SETI projects were open and public with the information these may be alien signals. They actually have a theoretic scale (Rio Scale) to measure the importance of a detected signals and the potential impact on the world.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by SaviorComplex]

reply to post by SaviorComplex

OK first of all, what is the point of attempting to have an intelligent discussion with you, when I've been nothing short of polite and patient, while you have constantly been attacking me by calling me stuff like... closed minded, a hypocrite, a fundamentalist believer, suggesting that I'm misinformed or uneducated, and now the latest.. a duck.

I haven't resorted to name calling and school child like behavior as you have, why should I even try to continue this conversation if you're not going to keep an open mind about anything I'm saying? or act like an adult for that matter?

Obviously you don't possess an open mind. I have listened to everything you've had to say, can't I expect the same basic courtesy and etiquette from you, without the constant attacks?.. I have met a few skeptics that really know how to make a good point and strike a conversation in a civil manner, I've even become good friends with some of them, but YOU are NOT one of them. You aren't "denying ignorance" friend, you are promoting it.

Now when it comes to all the latest repetitive questions you ask in your last post, I refer you to my reply to Mr. yeti101, you guys seem to share the same mindset, why not become friends all together?

reply to post by Majorion


the thing about saying seti will "NEVER" find anything is quite an arrogant statement. I'll tell you why

you dont know how many ET civs there are in our galaxy.
you dont know how many are transmitting a signal for long enough & powerfull enough for us to detect.
you dont know how many are leaking radio signals into our galaxy.
you dont know what our detection capabilities are going to be.

Thats quite alot of things you dont know or that nobody knows to say seti will "NEVER" find anything. Never is a long time.

Originally posted by Majorion
...closed minded, a hypocrite, a fundamentalist believer, suggesting that I'm misinformed or uneducated, and now the latest.. a duck.

If you think I was really calling you a duck, that is both laughable and sad.

And yes, I do think it is both hypocritical and closed-minded of the UFO believers to constantly bash SETI for not concentrating on UFOs and for not accomplishing what the UFO believers themselves have failed at. And while I did say you are acting like a fundmentalist believer, I at no point said you were ignorant or uneducated; there are many fundamentalist believers who are much more educated and informed than I could ever claim to be. The fundamentalist believer in the UFO community exhibits the same attitudes and behaviors as the religious fundamentalists.

Originally posted by Majorion
I haven't resorted to name calling and school child like behavior as you have, why should I even try to continue this conversation if you're not going to keep an open mind about anything I'm saying?

Because you do not answer questions. When asked questions, you refer to the same specious reasoning that lead to the questions in the first place. Or you tell us to we have to rely on your word, and your word alone.

And while you may not call names, you do behave in a condescending, arrogant manner (Yes, putting laughing emoticons in is very condescending).

Originally posted by Majorion
Obviously you don't possess an open mind.

Disagreeing with someone is not a trademark of "closed-mindedness." Not taking someone's word alone, and asking them to back up their claims is not closed-minded. However, calling someone incompetent because they made a mistake (which you admit anyone could make...), because they do not tow the line you want them to, is very closed-minded. And it is hypocritical, since you have made the same failings.

Originally posted by Majorion
Now when it comes to all the latest repetitive questions you ask in your last post, I refer you to my reply to Mr. yeti101, you guys seem to share the same mindset, why not become friends all together?

On the contrary, you have failed to answer the questions I have asked, and inadequately answered the questions that Yeti has asked. You never answered why you believe SETI will never find a signal, what research you have done to reach your conclusions, or how someone making a mistake automatically renders them incompetent.


[edit on 8-12-2008 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by Majorion
Decades of a hopeless dream, you really believe that you'll ever get the word from them? I can assure you, NEVER.

You have still failed to tell us why it will never happn. Why will it never happen?

Originally posted by Majorion
Ugggh, you have such a short attention span.

If you are going to whine about people being mean to you, perhaps you shouldn't turn around and hand out insults.

Originally posted by Majorion
Detecting an artificial radio signal HAS HAPPENED more than once, only it wasn't extraterrestrial, they made contact with planes in the sky

And in every case of misidentification, it was those involved with the SETI program who figured it out. In fact, when signals are detected, they attempt to rule out every other possibility first.

Originally posted by Majorion
Just comes to prove my point about them being incompetent, and the fact that you even ask that question shows how much you know about the institute you're defending. Do some research.

Once again, you prove your hypocrisy. How many times has the UFO believers misidentified something, made a mistake, or have been taken in by a hoax, If mistakes and misidentifications make the entire SETI organization and community incompetent, then the entirity of the UFO believers are incompetent.

Gosh you're really taking this personal aren't you?

For the last friggin time, I am not attacking her based on her obvious incompetence, nothing wrong with being incompetent. But to act as judge and jury over the UFO subject and to say that UFO's don't even exist because she couldn't tell the difference between an alleged alien craft and the moon, is just ridiculous. She(like you) has never researched this subject to even have an opinion. If she doesn't believe that some UFOs represent alien spacecraft, then that's fine, but to say that UFOs aren't even real or don't exist is quite ignorant and unwarranted on her part just because she terribly misinterpreted something as obvious as the moon.

Even most scientists know that UFOs are real, that is a given. Where they differ in opinion is the interpretation for these unidentified flying objects and whether any of them represent an extraterrestrial explanation. Who is Jill Tarter to make such a conclusion based on her own shortcomings?

And I fail to see why you think that extraterrestrials are "supernatural" anyways. What is so supernatural about the existence of intelligent life other than human beings? .. It's not exactly fairies and unicorns.

Again, I'll say that you don't have to take my word for it, nor do I expect you or anyone else to take my word for it, do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions.

I haven't attacked her based on whether she believes of extraterrestrial visitation or not, I'm attacking her based on her incompetence.

For the last friggin time, I am not attacking her based on her obvious incompetence, nothing wrong with being incompetent.

I'm sorry, but what ARE you saying?