Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Jill Tarter holds a PhD in Astronomy from UC Berkeley, a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Scientist, and a fellow of the California Academy of Sciences, she co-created a catalog of stars which may hold habitable worlds, and has been a director of various SETI projects. But apparently, since she does not believe in extraterrestrial visitation, she obviously has no idea of what she is looking at when she looks up in the night sky.

Yeah sure she's a trained observer on paper, but in practice, she is obviously not a trained observer. Need I clarify more on this issue?

I haven't attacked her based on whether she believes of extraterrestrial visitation or not, I'm attacking her based on her incompetence.

I am not some fundamentalist believer as you say, if you ever took the time to actually get to know me, you'll know that I'm one of the most skeptical people out there. But if you ever asked me to take the word of a government or pro-government organization, I'd say never. You obviously think highly of SETI, why not present for us a short essay on their many glorious achievements.

And it is in my observation and opinion, that people who start off by calling others closed minded, are the ones that are most closed minded and affected by any talk that goes against their core beliefs.

Originally posted by Majorion
Yeah sure she's a trained observer on paper, but in practice, she is obviously not a trained observer. Need I clarify more on this issue?

I haven't attacked her based on whether she believes of extraterrestrial visitation or not, I'm attacking her based on her incompetence.

And your criteria for proclaiming her incompetent? She made one mistake, which you admit even trained observers can make, despite her various achievements and positions. Nope, because she works for SETI, made one mistake, she's incompetent and an idiot.

Perhaps you could list your various accomplishments and achievements, to show us how you are qualified to make such a judgement about someone. Of course, you're the one who thought SETI was a government funded program; oh, but Dr. Tarter is the incompetent one, and you're the informed one.

Originally posted by Majorion
You obviously think highly of SETI, why not present for us a short essay on their many glorious achievements.

In so far as SETI detecting an alien signal, have they accomplished this? No, of course not. Otherwise, we would not be having this conversation. But then again, the UFO believers have not managed to prove life-exists beyond the planet either. But for some reason, these closed-minded hypocrites feel it warranted to bash SETI for something they themselves have failed to accomplish.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

And your criteria for proclaiming her incompetent? She made one mistake, which you admit even trained observers can make, despite her various achievements and positions. Nope, because she works for SETI, made one mistake, she's incompetent and an idiot.

When I admittedly said that trained observers make mistakes, I wasn't referring to her particular mistake as an example. And again, I'll maintain that she obviously is NOT a competent trained observer capable of discerning whether UFOs are even real or not, let alone make a negative judgment about the issue just because she works for SETI who are similarly a hopeless and incompetent organization.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Perhaps you could list your various accomplishments and achievements, to show us how you are qualified to make such a judgement about someone. Of course, you're the one who thought SETI was a government funded program; oh, but Dr. Tarter is the incompetent one, and you're the informed one.

I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else on ATS for that matter, I'm interested solely in open minded discussion, I haven't asked you for your own credentials just because you differ in opinion. Nor have I started off by calling you "closed minded" as you did with me along with the "fundamentalist believer" nickname. And you're twisting my words, I have not stated that the Government fund SETI, but I have suggested that SETI is a pro-government organization, whether they are funded by the government or not, isn't important anyways. They are the puppets of the government. Same argument for NASA. And no, I'm not particularly informed by any specific source, but again I have researched this subject for quite a while.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
In so far as SETI detecting an alien signal, have they accomplished this? No, of course not. Otherwise, we would not be having this conversation. But then again, the UFO believers have not managed to prove life-exists beyond the planet either. But for some reason, these closed-minded hypocrites feel it warranted to bash SETI for something they themselves have failed to accomplish.

UFO believers? .. I can understand your frustration with all these new age groups who have taken it upon themselves to believe what they want to believe. I've noticed and recognized this problem ever since I started researching this subject years ago, and this IS the fundamental problem with UFOlogy, I am not one of "those people", nor am I a hypocrite because of the conclusions I have come to based on my own research and experiences, you have mistaken and confused my opinion with those who have the UFO belief complex. I'm not really sure if I'm making myself clear enough to you. I am against the ridiculous crap in this field just as you are, but I must point out that if you're actually defending SETI or NASA for that matter, then I'm sorry to say that you aren't exactly informed yourself.

One last thing, assuming SETI ever do detect or receive an alien signal(which will NEVER happen), do you really expect them to even tell you straight away if it did happen, or would they not need the approval of a higher power?

Originally posted by DroolsAlot
So your saying that if there is aliens, that they live near a star and cant travel. Is that what you were saying?

Well, we have the ability to receive radio signals, but can't travel beyond our Moon.

I think it is entirely possible (maybe even probable) for there to be other civilizations just like us who can receive radio waves but do not have the ability for interstellar travel.

[edit on 12/8/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Majorion
...closed minded, a hypocrite, a fundamentalist believer, suggesting that I'm misinformed or uneducated, and now the latest.. a duck.

If you think I was really calling you a duck, that is both laughable and sad.

And yes, I do think it is both hypocritical and closed-minded of the UFO believers to constantly bash SETI for not concentrating on UFOs and for not accomplishing what the UFO believers themselves have failed at. And while I did say you are acting like a fundmentalist believer, I at no point said you were ignorant or uneducated; there are many fundamentalist believers who are much more educated and informed than I could ever claim to be. The fundamentalist believer in the UFO community exhibits the same attitudes and behaviors as the religious fundamentalists.

Originally posted by Majorion
I haven't resorted to name calling and school child like behavior as you have, why should I even try to continue this conversation if you're not going to keep an open mind about anything I'm saying?

Because you do not answer questions. When asked questions, you refer to the same specious reasoning that lead to the questions in the first place. Or you tell us to we have to rely on your word, and your word alone.

And while you may not call names, you do behave in a condescending, arrogant manner (Yes, putting laughing emoticons in is very condescending).

Originally posted by Majorion
Obviously you don't possess an open mind.

Disagreeing with someone is not a trademark of "closed-mindedness." Not taking someone's word alone, and asking them to back up their claims is not closed-minded. However, calling someone incompetent because they made a mistake (which you admit anyone could make...), because they do not tow the line you want them to, is very closed-minded. And it is hypocritical, since you have made the same failings.

Originally posted by Majorion
Now when it comes to all the latest repetitive questions you ask in your last post, I refer you to my reply to Mr. yeti101, you guys seem to share the same mindset, why not become friends all together?

On the contrary, you have failed to answer the questions I have asked, and inadequately answered the questions that Yeti has asked. You never answered why you believe SETI will never find a signal, what research you have done to reach your conclusions, or how someone making a mistake automatically renders them incompetent.


[edit on 8-12-2008 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by Majorion
Decades of a hopeless dream, you really believe that you'll ever get the word from them? I can assure you, NEVER.

You have still failed to tell us why it will never happn. Why will it never happen?

Originally posted by Majorion
Ugggh, you have such a short attention span.

If you are going to whine about people being mean to you, perhaps you shouldn't turn around and hand out insults.

Originally posted by Majorion
Detecting an artificial radio signal HAS HAPPENED more than once, only it wasn't extraterrestrial, they made contact with planes in the sky

And in every case of misidentification, it was those involved with the SETI program who figured it out. In fact, when signals are detected, they attempt to rule out every other possibility first.

Originally posted by Majorion
Just comes to prove my point about them being incompetent, and the fact that you even ask that question shows how much you know about the institute you're defending. Do some research.

Once again, you prove your hypocrisy. How many times has the UFO believers misidentified something, made a mistake, or have been taken in by a hoax, If mistakes and misidentifications make the entire SETI organization and community incompetent, then the entirity of the UFO believers are incompetent.

Gosh you're really taking this personal aren't you?

For the last friggin time, I am not attacking her based on her obvious incompetence, nothing wrong with being incompetent. But to act as judge and jury over the UFO subject and to say that UFO's don't even exist because she couldn't tell the difference between an alleged alien craft and the moon, is just ridiculous. She(like you) has never researched this subject to even have an opinion. If she doesn't believe that some UFOs represent alien spacecraft, then that's fine, but to say that UFOs aren't even real or don't exist is quite ignorant and unwarranted on her part just because she terribly misinterpreted something as obvious as the moon.

Even most scientists know that UFOs are real, that is a given. Where they differ in opinion is the interpretation for these unidentified flying objects and whether any of them represent an extraterrestrial explanation. Who is Jill Tarter to make such a conclusion based on her own shortcomings?

And I fail to see why you think that extraterrestrials are "supernatural" anyways. What is so supernatural about the existence of intelligent life other than human beings? .. It's not exactly fairies and unicorns.

Again, I'll say that you don't have to take my word for it, nor do I expect you or anyone else to take my word for it, do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions.

I haven't attacked her based on whether she believes of extraterrestrial visitation or not, I'm attacking her based on her incompetence.

For the last friggin time, I am not attacking her based on her obvious incompetence, nothing wrong with being incompetent.

I'm sorry, but what ARE you saying?