very true, and we can use our experience to try and determine the likelyhood of an alien race with those apects beign capable of interstellar travel. we aren't capable of it so it's just as likely that they would not be either.

so either they're here already and we're used to it or they're not here and they probably never will be.

Originally posted by Mozzy
uh, you're the one assuming you know so much about how aliens live their lives. i'm assuming i can tell what their general actions would be. you're trying to tell me about their psychology and social structure and you're forgetting that it doesn't matter if aliens live on earth that cannot be detected.

if that's true then guess what.... it's inconsequential to you!

I am among those who will tell you they exist, and they have been somewhat detected by people from all walks of life, including those who manage the world.

As to the "inconsquential" Wow! If they, the visitors, who treat us like lab rats, or in some cases, involve people in their plans, thinks so, they are talking pure arrogant crap. What affects us profoundly, and this one of the biggies in life, is beyond our business. It is our core need, right and responsibility to get to the absolute truth and to understand who, what, where and when anyone from our management, both elected and the powers that exist that are unelected, as well as the plans of the ets, so we can manage our planet ourselves a lot better. Either ending once and for all anything on any level, human or et, that is harmful and negative, so our children inherit a decent world (anything else is child abuse and an abandoning our real responsibilities).

Two, if they're good and have ideas that could help turn this planet into a more advanced, less barbaric place, and rid us of the slave master cabals, GOOD, I wanna hear it ASAP. The whole world needs to know.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by mystiq]

I can only offer my opinion as the post appears to speak for all humans on earth, which is foolish.
I don't assume life exsist in the universe, I believe it and feel it. When earth is fully aware of ET'S coming to earth - it will be exciting to say the least for me. More answers to questions I always had will be answered and I will gain new wisdom and understanding.
The cover-up of Alien life only keeps the human mind from expanding and growing - the proof of Alien life will have no limits in the advancement of human life and technology on earth. And that's what world powers fear!

even if that is the case, most humans are not abductees. as i stated in the op, unless you have been abducted or otherwise harmed by aliens...

personally i don't believe in abductions. not in any practical sense. of course it's easy to watch the movies or vids and believe in it for kicks but if people REALLY beleived in it then we'd be doing something about it.

Originally posted by Mozzy
very true, and we can use our experience to try and determine the likelyhood of an alien race with those apects beign capable of interstellar travel. we aren't capable of it so it's just as likely that they would not be either.

so either they're here already and we're used to it or they're not here and they probably never will be.

well we cannot breathe water so we also must assume nothing else can.

great point, nothing can breathe water. breathing requires a gas, am i right? fish don't "breathe" do they?

i thought you were going to talk about fish.

Mozzy it is clear you never clicked the links I gave you, yet you are going on and on giving the assumption that you have already made your mind up for the matter you ask us to discuss with you and with each other.
Nobody will give you any earth shuttering proof about what you ask.
I sense that most people answering in this thread, and of course in other similar threads are avid thinkers and probably are occasionally thinking about matters similar to what we discuss in this thread, it doesn't matter if they come forward as positive or negative, what matters is that the subject is on their minds.
Take some time to participate in discussions in ATS considering such matters. First of all, I like your kind of logic, but have an open mind. I understand that your view of "aliens" is full of the usual mainstream (paranormal mainstream) idea of how the typical alien should be. IMO it is all BULL. All those "experts" IMO don't know $hit, they just around to sell or to promote an agenda. I also believe that we know very little not only about the universe but for the real politics around us, not common earthly politics, but stuff so advanced that could even define the fate of any civilization of the whole galaxy.
I do believe there is a bigger game out there, and it is a shame that not only we don't know jack about it, but that we refuse to begin accumulating knowledge about it.

Shame, we were never meant to be so shallow. Our Creator did not have this in mind when He created us. We may have humble beginnings, although our classical history (quoting ancient philosophers) severely argues otherwise, but our future IS in the Stars.

Literally!

[edit on 5-12-2008 by spacebot]

I would like the part (a link) or a quote about the guy you mentioned that as you claimed he debunked the vimanas issue. It would be very interesting to read (I believe) and I also hope it is not another person that completely missed the point making another dull and boring attempt to convince.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by spacebot]

that's cool. i did pull up the link about the vimanas. i posted a quick reply about it. very interesting topic.

i hope the aliens are very interesting. i'd be hard to be duller than most people i know.

Look. You and me might be interesting, even our friends next door. But others, like the people we meet at work (for example) might not be.
Imagine each person is a different race in a different planet, in a different distant part of the at least the same galaxy and everybody has developed space travel. That's how i like to think about it.

so you think space travel is the norm?

i doubt that because planets are destroyed cyclically over time. evolution is hard pressed and working against the clock as far as space travel is concerned.

possibly one advanced race made it then spread the knowledge to certain trustworthy groups but this is unlikely. who would you trust and why bother?

Space travel might not be the norm, but even achievements beyond space travel may have occurred at locations in the sky our very eyes might be watching, events unfolding even beyond our wildest imagination.

I read a line in the sci-fi Orion Arm project once, that made me think there might be more than we could ever imagine, that we could ever be able to comprehend.

"Other civilizations might have ascend in almost their entirety and others might have descended".

Also God would play a huge role here.
Imagine that the Bible itself is an effort as they claim from God to enlists us in His side. What greater and largely unknown forces are at play here that even God would take pains to enlist a species?

IMO I'm off for 1 hour.
I'm a human, got to eat.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by spacebot]

Ok I'm back.

I can say that we can only trust our instincts.
They got us so far.
How long has it been after people worshiped a deity named Apollo among other deity's and some day, some bright minds chose to name the very first venture of human beings in to outer space that actually would manage to land on an alien soil and that this venture somehow HAD to be named after that particular deity?
Doesn't that make you wonder that if this model of such a deity never existed that maybe we would have never gone so far? What else future may hold for us that we may have not yet imagined? If we understand our past, we will know the future.

I also do believe that an effort is underway for us to not only forget and close our eyes against anything science cannot or does not want to explain but is even against our beliefs about God and our historical past in general.
If this effort is coming right in the middle of our finest hour we can be able to make a serious decision about advancing beyond our marvelous blue sphere we call a home or stay here and destroy ourselves, that's one more reason to me to get suspicious, really suspicious.

I also do believe that a forced Globalization plan, can only serve to make us another insignificant piece of a greater puzzle. What if we are here to solve this puzzle and not just be another piece in it?
Human nature appears as being very fragile, but if you examine what we have overcome throughout history, each race, each nation, will make you think that there's more than meets the eye. Much more.
We can not be just a small insignificant piece in a giant puzzle. We simply are not created with that as the initial intention in the Creators mind.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by spacebot]

i beleive information is witheld as you're syaing but i attribute it to human greed. i think going your own path and choosing your values is the only way to gain "enlightenment" or freedom however you describe it.

if some aliens "were" ascended by the very nature of their birth this could be very interesting. able to ride the universal waves by thought alone or whatever. but again, how would this matter to us unless they left us guidance?

Maybe whatever events have been recorded in our history or at least the way they were categorized as significant by the individuals who were closer to every important event time line, could be a guide by itself.
Human greed can be a factor for our current ignorance as species but also our appearance as an ignorant kind could serve as a shield for us from preying eyes until there is time. Imagine Lucianus science fiction stories some 2000 plus years back. Those people had some guidance or at least some inspiration else they wouldn't be able create so many things that can only be paralleled by our modern society's trends. The problem with modern society is that we believe that we know everything or at least that we already have discovered what is important to know. This is arrogance.
We don't even know why certain symbols in our alphabet have to be pronounced a certain way. we think that was done by chance. We need to pay attention to detail, to analyze carefully.
We create a whole theory of how the universe was created and theories about the speed of light. Yet we see so many things around us that cannot be explained yet the only effort we make towards them is to try to pretend they don't exist, because they don't fit our mathematical models. Older civilizations accepted the unexplained. We, just deny its existence.
You have every right to ask why should be of significance to us, but we as a whole have no right to continue to think the way we do, since it is producing no solutions and solves no riddles. If we leave our "enlightenment" to others, our decisions to others, our search for knowledge to others, chances are we will accept "their" version of things. Obviously you too are not satisfied with whatever version was forced down on you, hence you are here posting in this board, but you can go a step forward and produce your own results. You should seek questions, not answers.

My initial question for my quest was, why those advanced beings if they ever existed, had a need to contact us. What do we have that they in all their glory didn't?
Everyone and every little bit counts apparently, but in which ways and to which extend, is still a mystery to me.

That's all for now.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by spacebot]

if aliens are here, they are already infused with our society. at least as much as they want to be. everything is just as it should be.

the only exception to this would be disclosure of aliens that RECENTLY arrived or an alien invasion as was previously brought up.

if aliens are here and are leading us by leaving clues and influencing things that means we have a path set for us. obviously that path does not include shaking hands with an alien.

ergo..

it doesn't matter. just keep your eyes open.

(off topic - it's you're, this really bothers me)

yes i have changed stances. i haven't changed positions though and it wasn't me that dictated when it was to change. i followed the arguments as they were brought to me. if memory serves me correct there is only one post i did not reply to.

(this does not apply to spacebot as his posts were very well thought out and based on things that he APPLIED as being rational to hiself)

ok fine, aliens have inhabited the earth as part of a galactic process bent on harvesting human emotions to feed their ever growing need for more power! yet they are themselves deceived because they unknowingly serve a dark lord that represents the complete opposite of buddha and requires all the enery he can muster to keep from completing his return to the ever present, all succumbing void that will be his domain for countless universal cycles!!!

yes that's it. it's all so clear now.

do you understand you are focusing on the EXTREMES!!!!!!!

apply your mind to these thoughts. realize how old the universe is. things come and go. even if this was REAL it probably took place a BILLION years ago.

I disagree when you say "since they have the technology to come here , they wouldn't have the needs to enslave us at all" , I think it is quite the contrary.

Technology does not equal to moral and spiritual advancement. If they were really not interested in our planet (someone said they wouldn't , that the Earth had no worth to them... are you serious? Can you not see the biology diversity in here? Think how many millions of sterile planets there must be out there...) they wouldn't waste resources and time coming here.

If they were REALLY spiritually advanced , they could have the technology , yet they wouldn't go to the efforts of coming here for nothing , because they would be self-suficient and it would be a waste of resources to just come here to meet us apes , at least no physical contact untill we were ready for it , or "on the same level". They would want ethical contact. They wouldn't hide in the shadows , and they wouldn't stalk or even abduct (that is BEYOND unethical) people. They would most likely live in a world considered utopic for us right now.

Seriously , spiritualy advanced races would want distance from us. As they would see the spiritual potential we have , they would think what would be in our best interests before coming to us.


If they are coming here , and are already here , they would certainly be very much like us (in their needs and such) , yet more technologicaly advanced and perhaps not as self-suficient as one may think. Meaning : not evil , yet seeking to survive , most likely taking advantage of the weak (us). An invasion does not have to be a fireworks show , as we see in our primitives warfares , it could be a most subtle invasion...


There are probably millions of races out there , each in their own level of development , the ones that seek space travel are most certainly not the most advanced.


And to the people saying we have been visited for millions of years , that does not mean it has always been by the same alien race ... and it does not mean we are being visited right now by the same races that could have supposedly evolved us genetically.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Roufas]