Hello fellow ATS'ers! So there has been alot of talk lately about my fellow Americans and I possibly losing our right to bear arms, and it brought a few thoughts to mind I'm having some trouble with. Let me start by saying I do not agree at all that the right to defend ourselves and/or hunt should be taken away.

It especially sparked my interest the other day when I watched Bowling For Columbine for the first time. I took these numbers directly from the documentary.


Number of gun deaths in the following countries in one year(I believe the movie was made in 2002, but still you can see where I'm going with this):


Germany - 381

France - 255

Canada - 165

United Kingdom - 68

Australia - 65

Japan - 39

United States - 11,127




Is something not amiss here?!?! Honestly, I expected the US to be considerably higher in numbers, but I was grossly appalled, to say the very least. I would just like to know from anyone, American or not, what their thoughts are for the possible reasoning behind this. I've always known something was awfully wrong in this country, but today I am afraid to say I am NOT proud to be an American. It's starting to feel like this country is a disgusting social experiment in something we cannot grasp.

And yes, I am aware that a few of the countries listed have stricter gun control, however not ALL of them, esp. Canada. I KNOW our friends up north love to hunt!!!

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 11/1/2009 by Mirthful Me]

Did you factor in the population precentages in those figures too?



Cheers!!!!

Thats not very may actually. I pulled this from another source.


"According to the World Health Organization there are about 1.2 million People killed in traffic accidents every year, 10 Million are People Injured, costing an estimated $520 Billion"

Now thats something to be afraid of. But I see what you are saying.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by DroolsAlot]

[edit on 3-12-2008 by DroolsAlot]

Ya break those down into the causes of the traffic accidents. I am sure there will be far worse reasons for fearing than the sheer total number.



Cheers!!!

I totally agree that this is unusually high!

However, what can we do now?

From Reuters

The United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, making it the most heavily armed society in the world, a report released on Tuesday said.

U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world’s 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.

About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.

So again ... how do we deal with that? Disarm and force a civil war? or Revolution?

It is what it is.. but what can it be tomorrow?

Great post (with data!!!!)

Thank you

We could crack down on gang activity. The only reason I bought one is because my house was robbed and I live in a bad neighborhood.

Did you consider the source of your figures? Michael Moore isn't exactly the most honest of directors.

Did it break down on how these people were killed? Murdered? Accidental death? Did they get hit over the head with Grandpa's shotgun and killed?

And as was previously posted, did it factor in population? A city might have only 100 deaths, but a popluation of 10000. In that case, that's quite a few.

9 guns for every 10 citizens (including infants, prisoners, infirms, loony tunes, etc) is quite a bit .. I bet some people have 3-4 guns in their house per resident!

The data speaks for itself... 9 for every 10 ... bound to be some misfires...

Heres a link to a site that shows Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country. Doesnt specify gun related though. So percentages could be even smaller.

www.nationmaster.com...

Well I never actually paid too much attention to Michael Moore myself, so his credibility as far as I'm concerned is neither here nor there.

I was digging around a bit though and I found this graph which was pretty closely aligned with what I pulled from that movie:

www.guncontrol.ca...


Maybe the fear mongering media does have a slightly more profound affect on the public mind than we think?

Also, I agree about the gang activity thing but does that not go on in other countries?? Moreover, we can't expect gang activity to go down anytime soon, since the good ol' US jails more people than any other country too.

i131.photobucket.com...


...we all know the system is flawed, but a question I have: Is it continuously throwing people into the jail system over and over again that makes them not worried about shooting each other as much, or is it just that Because people are shooting each other too much they need to be jailed more?

[edit on 3-12-2008 by ohh_pleasee]

reply to post by ArcAngel

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Did the story take into accounts guns that are no longer serviceable, lost, or stolen?

Are they counting the guns in the military as well?

Well I have 1 1892 Bolt action Mauser, 1 M1A scout, 1 AR15, 1 SKS, & 1 3.57 revolver .. So I must be one of the ones that is skewing the numbers. I don't believe the guns are the problem its the people with the guns. If You were to disarm the people the law abiding citizens would be at the mercy of the criminals. Now lets say You were to magically get rid of all guns well then the same criminals would use knives. So go a head and flame me but where do You draw the line? Will You eventually cut off peoples hands because You can still murder with those.

Not only factoring in population percentage increases, but where are the numbers where guns were used to fend off a felony attack? Were any of these numbers participating in a felony at the time they were shot?

reply to post by ohh_pleasee

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Most are criminals killing criminals.

What's wrong with that? Prisons are over crowded anyways. (most people killed by guns in the US have a felon on their record.)

reply to post by Rockpuck

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That was one of my points. If anyone has ever watched the FIRST 48, there are usually two killings per episode, and each time it's some kid who kills over drugs, money for drugs, a gang-related killing, or because he was "disrespected."

Most of the killings are what I would call the "lower tier" killing each other off. I'm not saying it's right, but usually, those neighborhoods are animal parks.

I just wish the ATF would lose the restrictions on military weapons. I don't know why you have to be in the military to have all the fun toys.

I agree, most of those killings are gang and crime related. More proof that gun laws that would take away honest gunowners right to protect themselves wont do a bit of good and certianly wont make those numbers go down.



Cheers!!!!

Okay so the people killing each other are the 'people on the lower tier', thats all well and good and yes if you took away all the guns the murders would probably still be high because people would use other means. The thing I don't understand is why is the US so much higher than everywhere else. I'm questioning the COLLECTIVE MIND of the peoples here, yes population has alot to do with it, but I'm talking about the society itself as a whole... any input on that? I have some things to tend to, but I anticipate my return to see what you guys got.

Well if we took the numbers and catagorized them into the gang/criminal statistic and then compare an identical chart of the other nations listed, then we might have an answer.

I would say that it is the number of gangs/criminals and the spred of these gangs across the nation. It probably is the same in the other nations listed too.

But if we can side by side compare the numbers of gangs and where they are spread out in one nation vs the other, then we got a reference to base a conclusion on.


Cheers!!!!

IMO some Americans kill each other at a higher rate than people in other countries because they have bought into the idea that everything they want or see on tv is a human right but America doesn't have as extensive a welfare system to support that kind of attitude as other first world nations. So people go out and take what they want forcibly.

Like it was mentioned before, it's not working class, middle class, or upper class people doing this. It's not collectors, gun enthusiasts, and hunters; it's gang bangers and drug dealers, so crack down on those dbags rather than law abiding gun owners.