Ancient Extraterrestrials

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Observe the Behaviour of the Skeptics in this thread closely. They are doing precisely what was described in the second post on page 1.

* Not addressing the points brought up in the opening posts (diversion & deflection)

* Not offering their own thoughts and arguments but providing links

* Labeling something some authority disagreed with as "Debunked" (Disagreement does not equal a Debunk)

* One skeptic keeps posting in oversized-letters to deflect from the weakness of his argument

* Taking out one piece of data (puzzle-piece) while ignoring the rest.

* Addressing subjects that werent even brought up (easily debunkable subjects)...such as the one who brought up cave-art on the first page.

So far neither the points brought up in the OP nor the follow-up posts were addressed in any scholary manner.

Look and Learn!

This is by far, the most interesting thread I've encountered here at ATS.

Really exciting when I compile it all with what has been personally observed and studied over my 62 years (blink of an eye) here on earth.

Thank you for the thread....and for this site!

Hello Sky Floating,

This has been an interesting read. Like many components of the UFO enigma, this particular mystery is multi-faceted, and stretches the span of recorded time as we know it... Which brings to mind this next point:

If in fact, there were ancient astronaut's or ancient civilizations capable of flight.. just WHO would cover up that evidence.. and more importantly WHY?

If indeed this is part of our History.. we have a right to know. Has there been a "cover up".. a re-writing of our history, to channel collective views or to deliberately hide things that have happened in our past? Have we been technologically advanced several times before now, and destroyed "civilization" as we now know and understand it... some theories conclude that this may be the third time mankind has reached this level of present technology.. and that we have destroyed ourselves, twice before with this knowledge.


I thoroughly enjoy pondering mysteries of this nature. And in fact some evidence seems to indicate that this could be a possibility...


Evidence of ancient Nuclear destruction?

The archaeological expedition, which carried out excavations near the Indian settlement of Mohenjo-Daro in the beginning of the 1900s, uncovered the ruins of a big ancient town. The town belonged to one of the most developed civilizations in the world. The ancient civilization existed for two or three thousand years. However, scientists were a lot more interested in the death of the town, rather than in its prosperity.

Researchers tried to explain the reason of the town's destruction with various theories. However, scientists did not find any indications of a monstrous flood, skeletons were not numerous, there were no fragments of weapons, or anything else that could testify either to a natural disaster or a war. Archaeologists were perplexed: according to their analysis the catastrophe in the town had occurred very unexpectedly and it did hot last long.

Scientists Davneport and Vincenti put forward an amazing theory. They stated the ancient town had been ruined with a nuclear blast. They found big stratums of clay and green glass. Apparently, archaeologists supposed, high temperature melted clay and sand and they hardened immediately afterwards. Similar stratums of green glass can also found in Nevada deserts after every nuclear explosion.

A hundred years have passed since the excavations in Mohenjo-Daro. The modern analysis showed, the fragments of the ancient town had been melted with extremely high temperature – not less than 1,500 degrees centigrade. Researchers also found the strictly outlined epicenter, where all houses were leveled. Destructions lessened towards the outskirts. Dozens of skeletons were found in the area of Mohenjo-Daro – their radioactivity exceeded the norm almost 50 times.

The great ancient Indian epic, the Mahabharata, contains numerous legends about the powerful force of a mysterious weapon. One of the chapters tells of a shell, which sparkled like fire, but had no smoke. “When the shell hit the ground, the darkness covered the sky, twisters and storms leveled the towns. A horrible blast burnt thousands of animals and people to ashes. Peasants, townspeople and warriors dived in the river to wash away the poisonous dust.”

Interesting to say the least. Some historic records also indicate that this could have been the actual demise of another famous city, Sodom and Gomorrah. While I have not formulated a personal "stand alone" conclusion as the the validity of the above mentioned reports or findings I like to keep an open mind.

I believe there are and have been some "external forces" at work here which encompasses ALL of mankind's greatest mysteries, and that they are all inexorably linked or influenced by these said forces. Though I find the idea of "ancient astronauts" incredibly attractive, or even compelling ..I find it hard to subscribe to that theory part and parcel. Maybe its the "skeptic" in me that clamors for more "concrete evidence"... I cant put my finger on it.. but it feels contrived, or purposely misleading. (Not by you.. but the actual phenomenon its self, hard to explain.)


I find it extremely difficult to believe that if we had reached that level of technology..that EVERY SINGLE PIECE of hardware or software, every nut or bolt, fastener, machine or evidence of related materials could be utterly destroyed.. or covered up. The world is a pretty big place relative to our size.. I think it more probable that ancient man described things he had no way of interpreting in the only fashion he knew how to at the time.

What some may call "evidence of ancient astronauts" I feel...may be closer to "evidence of mankind's first mis-identifications". Just my personal thoughts on this topic, excellent thread, well done and though provoking.


Respectfully, keeping and opened mind to evidence..

AE~

Originally posted by NavalFC
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

oh yes, damn the skeptics who demand real evidence, instead of looking at some cave drawings and say "aliens!" and such.

Cave drawings an be fascinating but none conslusiverly show aliens. There are no alien remains, no alien devices left behind, no nothing. The idea that man was somehow to stupid to do alot of the things man has done without alien ntervention is frankly insulting.

I understand your skepticism. However, you just made the point of the OP by using the EXACT words that the OP claims the official debunker/skeptics have used. Now, the call for 'real proof' is valid.

But the argument of nothing being left behind could easily be discounted with the argument that the governments of the world have most likely known of this contact (if it indeed took place) and could very well have confiscated ALL of the evidence that is ever discovered.

I mean, take a look at how the UFO sightings of the past get handled. If it happened in say, Texas somewhere, only the local people would see it in their local papers and talk about it. The rest of the nation would never hear a word of it. It would eventually become a nice story to tell your friends. In fact, this indeed has happened in quite a few locations in this country. The advent of the internet has changed things significantly. Now when a sighting happens it is all over the net. It can't be written off and hidden like in the past. Thus the 'speak' of disclosure coming soon. Not because the governments want to disclose but because they can't keep things quiet like they used to.


Just my two cents for your skeptical post.

Now, I want to make this very clear. We NEED skeptics. I'm skeptical about many things. We can't simply swallow things but this topic has many valid points. Enough to move me beyond the point where we need absolute evidence. There is enough to make me seriously consider that these ancient contacts actually took place over them not taking place.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by dariousg]

Originally posted by Alter-Ego

I find it extremely difficult to believe that if we had reached that level of technology..that EVERY SINGLE PIECE of hardware or software, every nut or bolt, fastener, machine or evidence of related materials could be utterly destroyed.. or covered up. The world is a pretty big place relative to our size.. I think it more probable that ancient man described things he had no way of interpreting in the only fashion he knew how to at the time.


AE~

Awwwwww, and it comes to this argument yet again. This is what kills me. We, being so egocentric as we are, must believe that in order for a civilazation to be technically advanced that they must have used the same tools and methods that we use today. That they must have smelted iron and steel and used nuts and bolts and so on.

What about working WITH the natural elements around us? Although we do NOT do that now I believe that an advanced society, as closely or even further than our own, could exist in tune with nature. Craft and buildings utilizing the energy fields found within crystals and objects present on our planet.

Yeah, that is pretty far fetched but what I am trying to get across is that we cannot fall into the trap of comparing our world to any other potential past advanced civilizations.

Originally posted by dariousg
But the argument of nothing being left behind could easily be discounted with the argument that the governments of the world have most likely known of this contact (if it indeed took place) and could very well have confiscated ALL of the evidence that is ever discovered.

That is rather circular reasoning, don't you think? There is no evidence because the government has managed to confiscate every single piece of evidence; but there is no evidence for this because the government has covered it up.

You are taking a lack of evidence as evidence.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


Agreed, however I wasn't using that as 'evidence' just presenting another 'possibility'. So I believe you may have been taking my statement in the wrong context.

I'm not saying I believe in the ancient astronaught theory. Just that there are possibilities of collusion. Reasons to search out, find and hide the evidence.

reply to post by Alter-Ego


The Evidence of ancient nuclear war is indeed no longer limited to India. Thanks for reminding us.

One idea regarding the falsification or cover-up of history is that it could have been orchestrated by external intelligences (such as ETs) themselves for either unknown purposes, such as slave-breeding (a theory brought forward in Bramleys book "Gods of Eden") or, if one is more optimistic, for non-intervention purposes as imposed by more benevolent Gods who understand the importance of humanity "growing up self-sufficiently".

Another theory goes in the direction of secret societies having removed all the indicators for either power purposes (keep the masses ignorant, stay in power) or again, if you're more optimistic, to protect us from a feeling of shame and guilt over a horrific past.

Maybe all of the above, maybe none.

I am at the top of page 3 right now, and moving slow as I am poorly, but would like to say that a) someone linked to catchpenny.com on page 2 and it (the helicopter) was discussed, re: that it is a partial inscription of a cartuouche, and one that was underneath it.

So, Hans, I don't think haranging Sky about it is fair, or makes sense -- especially since he is off line.

Warrneb meet Hanslune, he is our resident blowhard skeptic in the Ancient and Lost Civ. forum. He is also knowledgable, and actually not a bad guy, although we the "Out of the Box Thnkiners" may find him tedious at times.

On his best days we OBT's can learn and are grateful, on his worst days he keeps sticking to 'only his opinion and translation of facts is valid' and that is a drag... so not so grateful then.

I'll be back when I get through the thread, which I think is fantastic not only for Sky's OP, but also for all of the fab links that so many Members have added. I even started an Ancient Astronaut folder for them.

Cheers!
TWISI

EDIT TO NOTE: This post and one above went up at the same time, hence the 'Sky's offline' comment.



[edit on 4-12-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

reply to post by dariousg


Good point about skeptics.

I am a skeptic: Skeptical towards what was taught at school and in church.

One could say that some of the ones who are called "skeptics" here, are actually believers of what is taught in school or church.

In this sense it would be them who are the true believers and us the skeptics.

Just depends on how you look at it.

Originally posted by dariousg


This is what kills me. We, being so egocentric as we are, must believe that in order for a civilazation to be technically advanced that they must have used the same tools and methods that we use today. That they must have smelted iron and steel and used nuts and bolts and so on.

Our history that has been taught in schools has dictated this to us. Our fossil records and records of past civilizations show this. We have proof of the melting of metals and fashioning of tools of bronze and iron and stone. We do NOT have proof of advance "natural" technologies that supersede our current level. Romantic theory, but baseless and unsubstantiated.




It's not being "egocentric" deducting form evidence gathered that we have not obtained a level of advancement greater than we have to date... its what we would call scientific evidence. Unfortunately, what I find as "egocentric" is offering anecdotal evidence as a "working theory" when you have nothing to substantiate it.

What about working WITH the natural elements around us? Although we do NOT do that now I believe that an advanced society, as closely or even further than our own, could exist in tune with nature. Craft and buildings utilizing the energy fields found within crystals and objects present on our planet.

Yeah, that is pretty far fetched but what I am trying to get across is that we cannot fall into the trap of comparing our world to any other potential past advanced civilizations.

What we "cannot fall into a trap" of, is wild speculative "opinions" as to "what could have been" with out one iota of verifiable proof. All we have is fossil records and history (stories) to compare our world and ancient civilizations. The way I currently see it.. we have a record of them smelting iron and steel . We have in various museums artifacts or evidence that this was the technological progression to our current stage.

If there is evidence to the contrary that you have concerning past advanced civilizations, on Earth using "other methods" I would be more than interested in reading it. I merely offer opinions and try to evolve my theories as 'evidence' presents its self unlike a "psudeo-skeptic" who believes in only a hard lined conclusion which is usually agenda based.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


No offense, but Ive discussd this topic with Hanslune in at least 3 other threads. The final conclusion of our discussion was that he interprets them one way and me another.

Fact is that these "letters" have not been found elsewhere. If they were truly letters, they would have been found elsewhere. I will not move from this position on this one.

If you'd like to refute some of the other points brought up, I'd be glad to hear you out or change one or two positions.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Has anyone ever read or heard of the book "Slave Species of God" by Micheal Tellinger? It is tied ib to this whole debate. From the top of my head I remember it to be about something along the lines of ancient aliens manipulating our DNA. Search for the book on google. Rather interesting.

i have the firmest belief that all peoples ancient were more terrestrial than just the "norm" or today being "earth"

Continued from Opening Post

The Mystery of Magwangdui

Wikipedia-Intro:

Magwangdui

From Mysterious China:

(Attention: Poor English, translated from Chinese by a Chinese)

People found three tumulus of Western Han Dynasty here unexpectedly in 1972. Later on Mawangdui became the abbreviated name of these three tumulus of Western Han Dynasty. The exploration of Mawangdui tumulus is a great archaeological discovery that shocks the whole world in the 20th century.

It is a “non-rotten” female corpse in the tumulus that let Mawangdui tumulus be well known. This female corpse has already been buried under the ground more than 2,200 years. But the appearance is perfect while excavating, the skin of whole body is fine and smooth, the subcutaneous fat is plump, muscles are whippy, even loops and whorls on a finger are all very clear, nearly like fresh corpse. Inject preservative into her body, her blood vessel can bulge unexpectedly, this is one miracle that shocks world.

Now get this: The corpse, that was well preserved for 2200 years by an unknown substance is now deteriorating, because we with our "advanced technology" are unable to preserve it in such a manner:

CHANGSHA: The bones of an ancient female mummy excavated from the Mawangdui Tombs in Central China more than 30 years ago, are starting to disintegrate. According to Luo Xuegang, head of the human anatomy research centre with Xiangya Medical Sciences College, the bones of the female mummy of Western Han Dynasty (206 BC-AD 24) have started to decalcify. The discovery was made through a recent X-ray observation. "The decalcification might be caused by the fluids used to preserve the body being too acid. We can adjust the pH to ensure the ...

Source

[edit on 4-12-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Time=Now

Originally posted by Zepherian (...)

What you, any individual such as myself know, is not what is known in the 'big picture spectrum of things'... The complete set of comomon knowledge exists in all verifiable written records, by inference (putting 2 & 2 together) & simply conencting the dots. I'm sorry for bringing up David Icke's compilation information regarding the evidence of reptilians & extraterrrestials, but just do a google search & find the PDF for free. - You can also find 'The book of Enoch, which is HIGHLY interesting, for it clearly describes 'the watchers' & how at one time ETs lived amongst us in the open.
Furthermore, there are paintings from back then that depict flying machines in the background... And my religious co-worker scoffs at me for 'believing in aliens'. Really.
Sherry shriner, um, HELLO?

PS: I don't believe everything she says, but the prominent people in this field are on the right track, that's for sure! AND I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT MICHEAL FRIGGING MOORE or any other shill!

[edit on 3-12-2008 by Time=Now]

I am not against the ancient astronaut or early civilization contactee theories. If anything I consider them more probable than the completely homegrown hypothesis, since I am aware of us living in a big universe, which is probably full of life.

But let's take it easy. For one thing it is clear to me that the body of knowledge that mankind has is contaminated. Since early on mankind has displayed elitist tendencies of knowledge manipulation, in an effort to enslave other humans via their belief systems. So what we read as reality and what was reality can be two, in some cases totally, different things. This is valid for Christ, Buddha, Alah and Aliens. We all are receiving second (in reality third or fiftyth) hand knowledge regarding any specific event. Anyone who has studied noise theory realises that there is dissonance between information transmitted and information received, which is greater the more time passes and the more stages the information has to pass. So we have to correlate and see how many sources we have and how accurate they can be, to have an aproximate view of what happened. But even this process can be polluted, because belief systems are powerfull things, and there are those that wish to use them to entrap others.

This is not ad hoc skepticism, this is realizing that we live in a world of lies, and our own species wide disrespect for truth has thrown us into a gnostic quagmire that has cost us our very history. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

Something probably did happen, but I doubt we will have enough pure knowledge sources to go beyond speculation, and those that do will probably want to make a new religion to enslave mankind with.

That's just how I see it, sorry for the negativism. Maybe sometime we, as a species, will gain access to something like the Akashic records, and in that case, if nature itself logs, then we will know. Otherwise all we have are shadows of truth.

Peace.

Why AAT is a Valid Theory for Consideration

There's no need to speculate too much. The facts presented are enough.

What makes this a valid theory is that it is firm enough to answer a lot of unanswered questions we have about our past:

1. Why did some civilizations just suddenly jump into existence without evidence of prior gradual evolution?

2. Why are the "Gods", which religions have labelled as "purely spiritual / non-physical" and especially supreme beings, embed with human qualities such as jealousy, rage, love, joy, pride, etc. And why do we read they could be touched, talked to, made love to, etc.?

3. Why did indigenous tribes most often, upon first contact with whites, describe them as the returning Gods?

4. Why do cultures, such as the ancient Egyptian one, appear to have digressed over time and from Dynasty to Dynasty rather than progressed?

5. In our evolution, where and when was intelligence suddenly injected?

6. What about artifacts (such as the last posted) that prove the ancients had skills and technologies we havent even begun to grasp yet?

7. Do the readers of this thread say how AAT uses the same pieces of evidence as conventional science, only with a different, modern-day interpretation? In other words, do you see how scientists who refuse to acknowledge that we are not the "peak of civilization" also refuse to interpret a rocket as a rocket?

8. Do readers see how it was necessary for those in power (The Roman Empire, the Catholic Church, etc.) to destroy evidence of this in order to maintain power?

9. Taken the billions of stars and billions of years of their existence, it is not at all a stretch of a universe teeming with life and that one of those would show up here in the course of these billions of years?

10. Do you see how the atheist-materialist interpretation of reality, namely that life on this planet is a mere "coincidence, arisen from dead matter" will not suffice?

11. Do you see how the religious-creationist interpretation of reality, namely that "God created earth in 7 days" will not suffice?

continued from opening posts

Ancient Astronauts: A Gallery of Selected Gems Pt. 1


Drilling in Ancient Egypt. Some Egyptologists claim that the drill in this case was turned by a bunch of Bulls

Ancient Art from Peru. Problem: There were neither Elefants nor such Pyramids in the Americas

Very ancient art depiction of a "God"

An ancient far-eastern "God", not looking like a Supreme Creator of the Universe, but rather like a guy in an astronaut suit

Originally posted by RFBurns
Not a single one of them can provide hard evidence like that shown in the pictures to support their "theory".

Of course, you know that just because something is carved into a rock doesn't necessarily make it true. Like, I don't know, a bas-relief of a full-grown man with the head of in ibis, for instance. The only thing "hard" about this evidence is the material it's carved out of.

One tiny obviously machined screw or bolt. Is that too much to ask?

Originally posted by Nohup
[
One tiny obviously machined screw or bolt. Is that too much to ask?

No its not. See my last Picture-Gallery post, the first picture. Thats a hole that has been shown to use a drill that competes with our own drills.

Check out my post before that. The substance used to preserve that mummy 2200 years cannot be rivaled by our own technologies.

Among a few dozen other examples given in this thread.

I guess it doesnt matter how much evidence is presented, its all dismissed as either a coincidence or a hoax.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Nohup


Intelligently Designed items dont require screws they work using the knowledge of the universe... not the very small amount of knowledge that we humans have that make us ignorant.