Why Do You Support The 911 Official Story? , page 2
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 12:56 AM by 911files
First, I am not sure what is meant by the "official story". If by that, it is meant the 911 Commission Report, then I think most who served on that project concede that there remained elements left to be explored. Overall, I do believe it was a good faith effort by some very capable individuals to find out what happened. I do however have a number of issues with the data and information they based their assessment on.

Second, I did take a few classes (required) in materials and structural dynamics, but do not consider myself in any way-shape-or-form qualified to address what caused WTC1 and WTC2 to collapse. However, from the evidence I have reviewed, I tend to side with the NIST theory. In the case of WTC7, I don't buy the NIST theory at all. But again, I simply am not qualified to address such things, and that is purely my personal opinion.

Third, I have a hard time taking seriously any "theory" coming from anyone running under the banner "911 was an inside job!" Why? Because that person is biased and promoting an agenda. They tend to view all data through that prism and attempt often to fit square pegs into round holes. Research based on this assumption is invalid and certainly not within the bounds of the scientific method. I am just as skeptical of people on the other end of the spectrum who choose to defend the "official" narrative as gospel.

My honest answer is, I don't know what happened on 9/11 as completely as I want to. There remain lingering questions for which I have no answers. I focus on one event only, American Airlines Flight 77 and strive to obtain and review all and any data I can find, whether subjective or objective. I've learned some new stuff, and I have learned some things which I am at odds with the 911 Commission report on.

I am a child of the 60's and 70's, so I know that the military, intelligence community, and politicians are capable of some low-down stuff. Yet I am also aware that there are a lot of wacko's in the world who mean us harm. I am not sure where the truth lies, but I suspect it is in the middle somewhere. But then again, that is just my opinion.


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 01:32 AM by ashamedamerican
reply to post by 911files


I think you would be surprised to find out how many people who believe that 911 was an inside job came to that conclusion reluctantly.
I knew something wasn't right and even after I had looked at alot of the evidence proving that we weren't being told the truth, I didn't want to believe it. However you can only stand at the base of a mountain of evidence for so long before you have to acknowledge the existence of the mountain.

Three links that should help you dismiss the stigma that '911 truthers' are all half-cocked nutbags.
Scholars for 9/11 Truth

Journal of 9/11 Studies

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
There are well over 300 professionals and scholars who are literally putting their livelihood on the line to investigate what they believe in.

Don't take the word of anyone else, read the data for yourself and I believe the rabbit hole will go alot deeper than you ever believed it could.
Be warned though, it's a one-way trip with a nonrefundable ticket.


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 02:45 AM by 911files
reply to post by ashamedamerican


I hope I did not give the impression that I thought "truthers" are wacko's. The overwhelming majority that I know are sincere and rational people. I work with many in the Truth movement and "official story" proponents.

I do frequent those links by the way to keep up-to-date. Like I said, there is definitely a lot more to know about 9/11, but I prefer not to make assumptions going in.



reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 04:18 AM by cashlink
reply to post by ashamedamerican


Thank you Ashamedamerican those are excellent links I go there often.
When I started my research several years ago in to 911 I was in for a shock. I felt betrayed, deceived, it literally made me sick. I became very angry; I did not even know about Operation Northwood back then, until I stumbled across a site and saw the documents myself. When I read the documents, I wanted to throw up! I really could not believe there were people in high places in our own Government that “wanted” to kill Americans to wage a war. They wanted to do a false flag operation on our soil and kill Americans and blame Cuba. What I have found about Operation Northwood and 911 they are strikingly similar. The Government and part of our military where going to do a false flag operation by, crashing airplanes in to building. The military was going to paint our own military jets in the Cuban military colors, and shoot our own passengers airliners out of the sky, and blow up building and gun people down in the streets, they were going to do this in New York, and Florida, heck, the Joint Chief of staff signed off for this project to be lunch! Sicken isn’t it. I have to wonder if this same corrupt Government took the same pages right out of Operations Northwood to carry out 911. The more I had research the angry I got I can not talk to most people about what I know because most people can not handle it. The first thing I will notice when talking about Operation Northwood and 911 is a wall of denial goes up, people just don’t believe we have people in our Government that are quite capable of orchestrate a 911 and financing it, to achieve their evil goals.

Right from the start when 911 happened the cover up started all doors where “slam” shut tight! When people started to ask question and started to poke around the Bush administration eminently put gag orders where needed to keep questions from being answered. People! Our Government did “nothing” for 18 months to look into the 4 airplanes that crash they did nothing to look at what brought down the WTC. During those 18 months, they were very busy getting rid of evidences that would point a direct finger at the Bush administration and a secret part of our military disposing of the airplanes, and all the debris at ground zero. However if it wasn’t for the Jersey Girls we would have not even seen a 911 commission formed, unfortunately the Jersey Girls where let down miserably when they read the 911 commission report they made it very clear that “none” of the question where ever answered. To this day they are still demanding answers from the Bush administration and “THEY” just flip their middle fingers at those woman, and the rest of the American people.


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 08:45 AM by SPreston
posted by hinky
I believe the official story. Chances are I'm older than most of the people here so I actually know a few things both good and bad about our government.


*SNIP* Your age has nothing whatsoever to do with awareness of what our government or any other government has historically done in the past. Your belief in the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY is strictly a faith based loyalty to a government you know a few things about both good and bad. In your reply to the OP, you do not even hint that you have wasted any time towards study of the evidence of 9-11 and different theories; therefore your support of the OFFICIAL STORY is solely based on faith.

posted by hinky
What most of the non-believers of the official story have in common is their total disregard of the over-riding theory that a person or small group of people who are willing to commit suicide for an act of terror, can actually pull off a spectacular terrorist attack.


There you go again; non-believers - a religious connotation to your faithful support of the OFFICIAL STORY. Your problem is, since you have not bothered to study 9-11 at all, that 19 alleged 'hijackers' pulling of this spectacular terrorist attack is just not possible anyway you look at it. Arguments for the OFFICIAL STORY always use circular reasoning to eliminate all the numerous contradictions and improbabilities and outright impossibilities.


Outflanking NORAD, successfully defeating the security at three airports while remaining off the passenger manifests, taking over four cockpits armed with box cutters without once triggering 'we are hijacked', successfully finding three targets supposedly without homing beacons from 100+ miles away, successfully planting demolition explosives in 3 WTC buildings and the Pentagon, cellphone calls from high altitudes at cruising speeds which were just not possible in 2001, flight paths which real living eyewitnesses testified were entirely incorrect, faked videos and audios from the alleged ringleader of the 'hijackers', cellphone calls which remained connected long after the aircraft had allegedly crashed, faked videos from the FBI, and getting the pResident of the US to block any and all investigations into 9-11 are only a few of the insurmountable problems with YOUR OFFICIAL STORY. There are many more.


Whether you like it or not and whether you believe it or not, YOUR OFFICIAL STORY is a gigantic lie and could not possibly have happened as scripted.



Mod edit: Removed insult and off topic graphics.

[edit on 12/4/2008 by Hal9000]


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 11:31 AM by Anonymous ATS
I believed there was a conspiracy for the longest time. Only since I have been out of the US for a few years, and taken some steps back mentally from the 9/11 event have I come to think now that the official story is more accurate. I don't think that we have been told everything by the US government, but that happens ALL the time and with ALL governments. That lack of transparency is what is fueling the belief in the conspiracy, to some degree, I think. I have come to believe the official story mainly because of reading and comparing the evidence put forth from the conspiracy theory supporters, and the offical story supporters. There are far too many experts in their fields that independently support the official story, versus a comparably small number of experts who disagree with the official story.
I know that there are a lot of weird occurrences, and coincidences about 9/11. But, sometimes that's all it is, nothing more.
What is that thing about Kennedy and Lincoln, and the coincidences with them? I'm just saying, coincidences happen.
I am a person who believed the conspiracy theory for years, but I have changed my mind. It was not one thing that caused me to change my opinion, it was a myriad of things. I would post some things as examples, but it's probably things that have been posted many times before, and disregarded as unreliable, tainted, or govt AKA official story sources.
I never post on ATS, but since I saw the question asked, I thought I would put in my two cents. I am not denigrating people who don't believe the official story, I am just saying that I do believe the official story (more or less - see my above comment about lack of transparency.)
Evil men/women do evil things; I know this. But, in this case, I think the evil men were not the government.
For once.




reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 12:41 PM by jthomas
Originally posted by SPreston
Interesting that jthomas would return again and again to Paul Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's beloved minister of propaganda. There must be something in common there.


Most of us learned from history that propagandists like 9/11 Truther leaders learned all they know from Goebbels. Take one of the best known propagandists in your 9/11 Denial Movement, the man himself, David Ray Griffin.

Like with you, truth is never the goal. DRG is well known for repeatedly lying, knowing full well he is misrepresenting the truth. Like you, he repeats debunked nonsense over and over and over and being corrected in public has no effect on him.

That's why DRG is known as the number one fraud and charlatan of the 9/11 Truth Movement.

Look how DRG learned to master propaganda from Goebbels in this classic statement to a bunch of True Believers:

"You know, these things really are all connected... after JFK, many people who were trying to get the truth out said, you know, if we don't get it exposed, they'll be emboldened, they'll do it again... and sure enough, Martin, Bobby and then 9/11. And, of course, before that, we had the original Pearl Harbor, and they got away with that too... and we may not like to think about it, but that one also was an inside job... This is non-denominational; Republicans and Democrats have participated in these events... If we do get a real investigation or a trial, there is simply no doubt of what the verdict will be because now... the evidence that 9/11 is an inside job is now overwhelming..."

David Ray Griffin
youtube.com...


We know propaganda and deceit, SPreston. You can't fool anybody.


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 12:47 PM by hinky
reply to post by cashlink


I'll humor you a little bit. I'll keep this only to the topic of the opening question.

I noticed some new found friends took time to respond and thanks for the feedback. I must have hit close to home or a raw nerve or 2 on a couple of people. Facing the truth hurts at times, and within this thread you see example of people's responses to this. They strike back in with inconsequential responses or off topic responses. But then, I have kids over 30 so I'm used to it.

Once again, I see a commonality running though these threads, I need to provided the proof or reasoning of why I believe the Government in this matter. No, the real question should be "Why are you a minority in this matter and why do you question an official report?". My government provided an official report of this terrorist act.

Once again, the sheeple or whatever comments will come, but here is where the real problem lies.

I'm not an uneducated man living in a tent connecting to the internet from some internet cafe I happen to be digging garbage from their trash cans. Words have meaning. I can see from the writings within this thread there are kids posting their worldly responses trying to make themselves feel self important. I see engineering terminology used in wrong forms or just plain bad English. I can understand the English aspect due to the sad state of our educational system or English not being a first language of some people. I can not disallow the wordage of engineering terms though. I see this commonly throughout threads or web sites of the people trying to show that airplanes can not bring buildings down. To me, just a plain ordinary guy will a little education and a decent job, this is a problem.

Sometime when a person has a little time, they should look into what the term "official report" or "final report" really is and what it really means. Maybe even look into the legal aspect. This is part of where words have meanings. Someday, someone within this very thread may have an important job and can fully understand the ramifications of those words and feel the full burden of placing a signature on this type of document. People without this understanding or just aren't aware of what this document truly is, don't have a full appreciation of the Government's action.

When I glanced or just perused the NIST report, on first blush, I have no problems. But then, I don't claim to be an engineer or a fire fighter that now saves the world. However, when I just go visit some sites that are highly recommended in these regards, I see many problems with simple things from a complex engineering problem such as a plane loaded with fuel and striking a building at several hundred miles an hour.

You wanted to know why I believe the official report. I haven't seen anything at all that makes me believe otherwise in regards to the collapse of the towers. At least nothing that makes sense to my untrained eyes.

This thread is only about why people believe or don't believe the official report. Other facts or made up facts about everything else is for a different thread.

And friends, please use entire quotes while dismantling my posting again so it can be in total context.


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 03:07 PM by ashamedamerican
Originally posted by jthomas
You already know that there is no "official story" and you already know that the burden of proof is on the shoulders of you Truthers to support your claims. You know full well that your obligation is to debunk the massive evidence against your claims and you know that you never have been able to so it in seven whole years.

I love how you constantly claim "there is no official story" in thread after thread. Really? What's the 911 Commission Report?
What do you call the fairytale involving 19 hijackers who were coordinated by a man in a cave in Afghanistan who was fingered as the main suspect before the towers had even fallen?

As for the burden of proof:
If you tell me that the moon is made of cheese, and I prove that isn't scientifically possible, and you still insist on claiming that it is made of cheese the burden of proof lies on you, not me.
Therefore since a ridiculous number of holes have been proven to exist in the official story, the burden of proof isn't on me. I'm not the one claiming that jetfuel dropped a skyscraper into it's footprint, I'm one of the people that on the side of the arguement pointing out that this isn't physically possible.

The government story has already been debunked, by architects, engineers, scientists and scholars. It has been left with so many holes in it that a block of swiss cheese would be jealous.

By repeating the same known falsehood over and over, you are just admitting what you and we have know all along:

You mean the way we have been told over and over by mass media that Bin Laden is guilty, (which nobody could have possibly known in 30 minutes) since before the towers even fell?
you cannot demonstrate in any manner whatsoever that the government is even a suspect in 9/11.

As a matter of fact I can. If the government has nothing to hide then why are there 80+ tapes that they claim show a 757 hitting the pentagon, but they refuse to release? National security eh? Yeah I bet, it's a matter of national security that we don't see those tapes because if we did, we would have video evidence that they are lying to us.

Despite Goebbels's statement that propaganda is the art of repeating falsehoods often enough will make people believe them, it hasn't and never will work for you 9/11 Truthers.

No but it sure worked for our government now hasn't it? Since before the towers even fell we have heard the same propaganda regurgitated over and over in an attempt to brainwash the public into buying the 'official story' that you claim doesn't exist.

As for your comment about Goebbels, I find it very interesting that you would invoke the name of a man who belonged to the Nazi party when trying to defend the 911 myth, who by the way was funded by Prescott Bush, Good 'ol Dubyah's grandfather.

It's funny that you can say all this, and even try to smear the name of David Ray Griffin, yet you can't provide one real answer or piece of evidence as to why the 911 official story is in any way truthful.
Anyone else remember good 'ol Baghdad Bob?




reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 03:30 PM by ashamedamerican
Originally posted by hinky
Facing the truth hurts at times, and within this thread you see example of people's responses to this. They strike back in with inconsequential responses or off topic responses. But then, I have kids over 30 so I'm used to it.

I'm not an uneducated man living in a tent connecting to the internet from some internet cafe I happen to be digging garbage from their trash cans. Words have meaning. I can see from the writings within this thread there are kids posting their worldly responses trying to make themselves feel self important.

Very nice attempt at belittling everyone involved in the 911 truth movement. I love how you prefer to attack the messengers rather than give a single reason or piece of proof that explains why the official story is the slightest bit believable. Looks to me like a tactic taken straight out of the same book used by those who prefer slander and denigration to justify the myth, rather than logic or evidence that can withstand peer review.
No, the real question should be "Why are you a minority in this matter and why do you question an official report?". My government provided an official report of this terrorist act.

You may want to check the current 911 polls, the people who do not believe the myth and the majority, you my friend are in the minority not us.
And yes your government did "provided an official report of this terrorist act" which as I stated has been debunked, by architects, engineers, scientists and scholars who have left it with so many holes that a block of swiss cheese would be jealous.


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 07:00 PM by jthomas
Originally posted by ashamedamerican
Originally posted by jthomas
You already know that there is no "official story" and you already know that the burden of proof is on the shoulders of you Truthers to support your claims. You know full well that your obligation is to debunk the massive evidence against your claims and you know that you never have been able to so it in seven whole years.

I love how you constantly claim "there is no official story" in thread after thread. Really?


Yes, absolutely.

What's the 911 Commission Report?


A Report issued on July 22, 2004. Didn't you realize that?

Now, tell us how the "official story's" first reference was on Sept. 12, 2001 and used from that date onwards by 9/11 Truthers if the 9/11 Commission Report did not appear until almost 3 years later and is, magically, supposed to be the "official story?"

Where did you get your faulty information?

What do you call the fairytale involving 19 hijackers who were coordinated by a man in a cave in Afghanistan who was fingered as the main suspect before the towers had even fallen?


Just what it is: a debunked fallacy. Are you new to this?

As for the burden of proof:
If you tell me that the moon is made of cheese, and I prove that isn't scientifically possible, and you still insist on claiming that it is made of cheese the burden of proof lies on you, not me.


If the massive, independent evidence from thousands of different sources and eyewitnesses the source of which was not from the government and never was in the government's control and converges on a conclusion, would you claim the government was responsible and try to make people prove it wasn't?

Of course not. Unless you are a 9/11 Truther.

Therefore since a ridiculous number of holes have been proven to exist in the official story, the burden of proof isn't on me.


No. There is no "official story" and you haven't demonstrated that government is responsible for the attacks. This is what you claim but haven't proven.

I'm not the one claiming that jetfuel dropped a skyscraper into it's footprint, I'm one of the people that on the side of the arguement pointing out that this isn't physically possible.


You haven't refuted the NIST report nor any of the evidence. You are obligated to refute the evidence, the methodology, the hundreds of independent and government structural engineers, forensic scientists, chemists, physicists, and architects that made up the NIST investigating team.

The government story has already been debunked, by architects, engineers, scientists and scholars. It has been left with so many holes in it that a block of swiss cheese would be jealous.


There is no "government story." There is only the massive evidence that you haven't refuted.

you cannot demonstrate in any manner whatsoever that the government is even a suspect in 9/11.

As a matter of fact I can. If the government has nothing to hide then why are there 80+ tapes that they claim show a 757 hitting the pentagon, but they refuse to release?


Have you ever bothered to question the source of that information?

Let's give you a test. Provide us the source and veracity of your claim that there are "80+ tapes that they claim show a 757 hitting the pentagon, but they refuse to release?"

I want you to demonstrate with sources and evidence that your claim is valid. If you are unable to do so, please let us know.

It's time that 9/11 Truthers put their money where their mouths are.


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 08:35 PM by ashamedamerican
reply to post by jthomas


Thanks for cutting my quotes in a way that makes me look like I didn't know what the 911 commission report was. love the new, inventive forms of disinformation tactics you create daily.

I also enjoyed how you referred to the official story that you claim doesn't even exist as "a debunked fallacy"

If I need to provide sources proving that one of the most heavily defended and surveiled buildings in the world has easily 80+ video tapes they won't release than I fear there's no helping you because I don't have the time to waste on exercises in futility. Go to a Wal-mart sometime and look at the roof, you're telling me that the pentagon has less video surveillance than a department store?

As for your clearly and badly photoshopped T-shirt that that claims 4.6%, nice try but it's closer to 85% who believe we're not being told the truth. I could also photoshop a T-shirt that says "100% of Americans believe 911 happened just as the official story claims it did" but that would be deceitful and shameful and I don't stoop to levels that low.
I'll leave those tactics for the official story parrots.


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 09:29 PM by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by ashamedamerican




If I need to provide sources proving that one of the most heavily defended


Well, you are going to have to provide sources for that claim. Despite what many truthers believe...there are no gun emplacements, no missile launchers, no artillery, no heavy weaponry at all at the Pentagon. The security there on 9/11, came from the security force assigned there (with their standard issue Beretta M-9's)


reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 09:37 PM by 911files
reply to post by jthomas



On the eve of a Republican National Convention invoking 9/11 symbols, sound bytes and imagery, half (49.3%) of New York City residents and 41% of New York citizens overall say that some of our leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act," according to the poll conducted by Zogby International. The poll of New York residents was conducted from Tuesday August 24 through Thursday August 26, 2004. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/-3.5.

The poll is the first of its kind conducted in America that surveys attitudes regarding US government complicity in the 9/11 tragedy. Despite the acute legal and political implications of this accusation, nearly 30% of registered Republicans and over 38% of those who described themselves as "very conservative" supported the claim.

The charge found very high support among adults under 30 (62.8%), African-Americans (62.5%), Hispanics (60.1%), Asians (59.4%), and "Born Again" Evangelical Christians (47.9%).

Less than two in five (36%) believe that the 9/11 Commission had "answered all the important questions about what actually happened on September 11th," and two in three (66%) New Yorkers (and 56.2% overall) called for another full investigation of the "still unanswered questions" by Congress or Elliot Spitzer, New York's Attorney General. Self-identified "very liberal" New Yorkers supported a new inquiry by a margin of three to one, but so did half (53%) of "very conservative" citizens across the state. The call for a deeper probe was especially strong from Hispanics (75.6%), African-Americans (75.3%) citizens with income from $15-25K (74.3%), women (62%) and Evangelicals (59.9%).


2004 Zogby Poll

You can count me in on, "Less than two in five (36%) believe that the 9/11 Commission had "answered all the important questions about what actually happened on September 11th... " and some of the other elements noted in the 2004 poll.


The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible US government complicity, and was commissioned to inform deliberations at the June 2~4 "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future" conference in Chicago. Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure).


2006 Zogby Poll

By now, I am sure the numbers are much higher. I am not convinced that "911 was an inside job!", but I am convinced there is much more to know.
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5  >>    ^^TOP^^



9-11 lecture at Basel University, Switzerland.
  Posted 12 days ago with 14 member flags
9/11 Actors re-visited
  Posted 6 days ago with 12 member flags
Wikipedia categorizes 9/11 truth as \'denialism\'
  Posted 17 days ago with 11 member flags
Building Collapses in Rio
  Posted 13 days ago with 6 member flags
new film "Human the film (2012)" covers all the bases and more!
  Posted 7 days ago with 6 member flags

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:

Greetings from a Dying Man
  Introductions, Posted 10 hours ago, 88 replies
Alien Grey caught in photo ?
  Aliens and UFOs, Posted 12 hours ago, 70 replies
Pass Me My Rifle
  World War Three, Posted 16 hours ago, 57 replies
Iran sent pink drone to Obama
  World War Three, Posted 17 hours ago, 40 replies