5 Questions To Christians, page 2
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reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:17 PM by Jomina
reply to post by yeahright


Thanks for the response

I guess it's an experiment in psychology of a sort. One of the things I have found, especially with myself, is that when certain things are brought up, I'll just gloss over them, if i bother answering them at all. And that really hit me, whne i realized that.

So I guess, in a way, I wanted to see how common that kind of thing is. It's my thought that most people will not even answer the questions, if they have a certain mindset, and will try to answer them by other means. I know, for me, I would answer them as, "well we are not God," or "well God says..." and just never face them myself

Again, that bothers me, because I suddenly (upon realizing all of this of course lol) understood why some things end up getting justified, in spite of logical reasons to never do them. Violence is one, of course, but there are others as well.


I know there are a lot of open minded people here on ATS, who WOULD be willing to face the questions, but there are some who will do as i used to do, and just gloss over them somehow. And I think that's very telling.


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:27 PM by racegunz
reply to post by Jomina



That's one place i'll be departing from ya... maybe because it's the culture I grew in, or whatever, but to me I wouldn't do any violence simply because I feel it is wrong to do so, not because it is illegal.


Ah! finally, so by whose standards are you considering the violence "wrong" if not God's standards and not the legal authorities standards then perhaps your's? So you want to live by your (or someone besides God's)standards! welcome to the original sin.


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:27 PM by Jomina
Originally posted by yeahright

If they're troubling, then I think you're making some invalid assumptions. Then again, maybe I'm making some invalid assumptions about what you may be assuming.


I think maybe you are, but not sure. I replied with my reasons for posting this in my last reply to you, but I'll say a couple things here as well...

my personal standpoint and past is, I was raised christian, and felt called to be a pastor, studied the bible and theology for a very long time. But then i was faced with these questions, and others, that some honest seekers of truth were asking. They saw certain things in the belief system that troubled them greatly, and I agreed. They were not out to bash anything, nor to turn people out of their beliefs, and neither am I.

I'm not a christian, myself, any longer, however, I do still follow much pf the tenets of Christ, and I feel even closer now to him than i ever did. I got out of dogmas and such, and had to face that my own understandings of how the concept of hell and eternity, etc came about, seemed very much to be different than originally intended.


So, as I said, this was not an intent to harm, cause fuss, drama, or wars. It was an attempt to ask honest questions that SEEKERS DO ASk, and most "religious" (please note i do not include all who say they are christian, etc) just can't face the questions and answer honestly themselves. It's a troubling, to me, problem, and it does cause harm to those who seek

Does all that make sense?


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:29 PM by Rren
1- A.


Although, i am pretty sure I would kill the thing (or have it done legally) I can't imagine torturing it. Really though, who knows what they would do in a situation like that.

2- D.

That one is easy for me... God gave them a free will why would I feel it my right to take it away from them? Pretty sure God loves Buddhists, Muslims, Wiccans.... even atheists too. I hope we are not judged on what we got right and what we got wrong theologically speaking... otherwise we are probably all screwed. Put ten Christians in a room... ask 'em a theological question.

Run!


3- D.

I wonder where you could possibly be going here? You should probably note (or pass it along to the guy you got it from) that if he waits for "A" billions will never hear the message and "B" (via the oral tradition) is how it was done originally. With respect to Christianity and the "C" choice does anybody really have a hard time understanding Jesus' message? The Sermon on the Mount seems pretty cut and dry to me. So with this question not giving me god-like abilities, I had to go with D.



4- D.

I see a point coming. I wasn't supposed to assume God-like abilities, plans or responsibilities here either so what else is there but "D"?

5- None of the above. I would simply (being omnipotent) visit them individually and let them know what's what.


God is more clever and forward thinking than I am (<---no pun intended ) and wants, according to His plan, for us to come to Him willfully and without cohercion. Me? Oh, you little fleas are gonna know I am around... believe it! I wont give you a choice,.... I want my props!

[edit on 3-12-2008 by Rren]


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:32 PM by chapter29
reply to post by Jomina




I'm not a christian, myself, any longer, however, I do still follow much pf the tenets of Christ, and I feel even closer now to him than i ever did.






reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:39 PM by Jomina
reply to post by Rren


lol just gotta say I loved your answers and humor


Yea, the theological thing, it's a problem. To christians (or at least those who are at least more than moderate) will say that to do anything except accept Christ, will lead to your damnation. And really, that is part OF the message given in the bible, if you interpret it in a lot of ways. There ARE some ways around it, according to the bible, but again, you're dealing with a contradictory message, and therein lies the reason for some of the other questions.

Theology and interpretation are a big problem in the church, and really, all religions when it boils down to it. Christianity seems to have the hardest hit from it though, given at last count, there are over 34000 different denominations.

I wanted to put in the first question the option of euthanizing it and be done with it, but... that also does not hit you with the real moral question of the deed.

I guess, for me, what I wouldn't do to a dog, I wouldn't do to a human, and that was the intent of it all lol


Good answers though, thank you for taking part in it. You were a welcome addition


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:43 PM by Jomina
Originally posted by chapter29
reply to post by Jomina




I'm not a christian, myself, any longer, however, I do still follow much pf the tenets of Christ, and I feel even closer now to him than i ever did.





haha mayhap not in the way you're thinking. Not as a personal relationship or something, but of the ideas behind "him". Like the understanding of treating others as yourself, etc... the connectedness of all things


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:53 PM by theindependentjournal
reply to post by Jomina


Are you trying in some twisted sick sense to play GOD or assume you know more than HE or that you are better than HE or more merciful than HE.

Why should I as a man, born in sin and lustful and deceitful in nature try to answer questions that are absurd to start with?

You question the Bible, GOD, his Mercy, and then try to appear as if you're better than he like you know the end from the beginning.

There's a question for you all to ask yourselves and answer in this thread...

Tell me when and how the Earth will end and when is the next Earthquake and where and what magnitude, and then tell me what your neighbor is thinking right now...

Not so easy being GOD is it?



reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 06:59 PM by holyTerror
Originally posted by chapter29
I don't normally answer THESE types of questions, but I am a HARD CORE christian and would love to express myself in hopes that other christians might come forward with similar answers...

So, let's see...

#1. If your neighbors dog killed your child, and you had the power to chain the dog, blast it with blow torches, and the dog NOT die... how long would you torture the dog for killing your child?

E. Kill it immediately! I plan on hanging with Christo and da' man for eternity, so I wouldn't have time for torture - but thanks for the offer...


#2. As a loving parent, you give life to 5 children, and give them free will do to as they see fit. Each child goes his/her own way. One becomes a buddhist, one becomes a Muslim, one becomes a Christian, one becomes a Wiccan, and one believes in no religion. Only one of your children believes the same as you do. How would you treat your 4 children who do not?

C. I would torture them for eternity...oops, that kinda goes against what I said before - but that's cool 'cause my god will forgive me...that's how I roll!


#3. If you had a critical message, and wanted to make sure as many as possible would get it and understand it, how would YOU go about presenting it?

E. I would create an imaginary book, maybe title it "the Bible", to get my message across...


#4. How would you deal with people who did not get your message, or didn't understand it, or didnt believe it WAS your message, because it was so confusing and contradictory?

E. Torture them then heal them so they could go back to work in order to drop more cash in the basket...we all have to do our part.


#5. If you were omnipotent but invisible, and you wanted to make sure that people knew you were real, and wanted them to believe in you, what would you do to make this happen?

D. (with edit) D. I would do nothing at all, and remain as invisible and undetectable as possible, because if I did that, no one would know about me and the world would be a little better off..



I hope these answers from the heart help you out...I sure love being a christian...





Way to poke fun at other people's beliefs.
From reading your other posts I am starting to see a trend....

And no, I still won't add you to my ignore list.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by holyTerror]


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 07:16 PM by cancerian42
reply to post by theindependentjournal


Why don't you ask Satan? I heard somewhere...where was it?... oh yeah, from Revelations, that he is one of the main characters in that scene. We should really congratulate him, because he is probably still feeling a little blue that he didn't get the leading role.


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 07:24 PM by Rren
Originally posted by Jomina
reply to post by Rren


lol just gotta say I loved your answers and humor


Thanks.


Yea, the theological thing, it's a problem. To christians (or at least those who are at least more than moderate) will say that to do anything except accept Christ, will lead to your damnation. And really, that is part OF the message given in the bible, if you interpret it in a lot of ways. There ARE some ways around it, according to the bible, but again, you're dealing with a contradictory message, and therein lies the reason for some of the other questions.



I understand that completely. When I am asked I just usually reply as honestly as I can: "I don't know for sure, but to the best of my knowledge the only way (back) to God is through Christ. I have never spent any considerable time studying other religions, so if you want to know more about them I would seek out a Muslim, Jew, Wiccan (etc.,) and ask God for guidance. This is a personal relationship you are seeking and you should deal with it as such. If there is anything I can do to help you in any way please let me know.... 'besides I aint all that bright you sure you wanna be askin' me anyway"

Or something like that... I can't judge who is in and who is out. Not my job, I don't want it.




Theology and interpretation are a big problem in the church, and really, all religions when it boils down to it. Christianity seems to have the hardest hit from it though, given at last count, there are over 34000 different denominations.



I had no idea there were that many denominations. I wonder how much some of them really differ but, yeah, like I said.



I wanted to put in the first question the option of euthanizing it and be done with it, but... that also does not hit you with the real moral question of the deed.


True. You know it is wrong... we all do. It is actually a pretty interesting question.



I guess, for me, what I wouldn't do to a dog, I wouldn't do to a human, and that was the intent of it all lol



I think I would.. even though I know it is wrong. I have always wondered about those people who forgive the person whom murdered their loved one. It is always amazing to see and I always know when I see that they are doing what is right. Still, I just don't know that I could do that in the same situation. With a dog? Just the thought of it is bad enough.




Good answers though, thank you for taking part in it. You were a welcome addition



I am pretty freakin' great.


You're welcome and thanks to you too.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by Rren]


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 08:05 PM by chapter29
reply to post by holyTerror




From reading your other posts I am starting to see a trend....


You are just NOW figuring that out...?

Better late than never, huh..?



reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 09:05 PM by AshleyD
reply to post by Jomina


I'll bite. We're specifically told our ways are not His ways but this is how I would handle the following scenarios as a fallible human being.

1). 'A.' I wouldn't do anything to the dog. I would be angry, greatly saddened, and my life would never be the same but it would not be the dog's fault. It had no concept of right or wrong and was not intentionally trying to cause grief and pain, unlike humans. If anything, I would have it put down so it would not harm another child but I would not do it myself in a violent manner. It would be put down humanely.

2). 'D.' I would love them just as they are and I would continue to be the best example of Christ I could be for them, while never ceasing in prayer.

3). Out of those options, 'A.' I would want to create it at the earliest possible point in history. If I waited until mass communication was available, that would mean too many generations would never receive it.

4). 'D.' I would only hold those accountable who fully understood but rejected it.

5). None of the above. 'B' would probably be the closest but it would not be done with examples like that.

[edit on 12/3/2008 by AshleyD]


reply posted on 3-12-2008 @ 11:18 PM by Jomina
reply to post by yeahright



Good thoughts overall, and I'd agre with them overall. I do know there are many contradicions within the tenets, adn they can be explained elsewhere, for the most part. Theres a few that still have issues hehe


However, i wanted to speak mainly to your point about the core of it all.

That's one thing that I've always held to be dear in the end of things, and what I always took to be the core message of Jesus. Love God, love your neighbor, love yourself.. and if you do those, you're fine. What God that is, I think, has been argued over the most, and to the detriment of everyone on all sides.

Some would say a specific named God, but there's a lot of problems with that. Which one? YHWH? Allah? Krishna? Zambooboo up the mountain? so many have come and gone throughout history, and it's largely based upon where you were raised up, relating to what you're going to believe.

When dealing with Christians and Muslims, especially, and judaism to a degree, the choice of "God" is absolute and no way around it. Which, to me, is saddening. It's when I let go of absolutes that I felt closer to God than ever, and really feel i understand the message of Christ better than I ever realized. But does that mean, since I have issues with "religion" that I am in trouble? Damned and doomed? According to Christians, yes, and that's pretty troubling as well.

So you see the conundrum involved in it all? Seeking for God throughout life, it was finally by letting go of dogmas and theology and realizing that basic message, love god (whatever that God may be to you, embrace it)... love your neighbor, and love yourself. Loving your neighbor as yourself is simply because he IS yourself, for we are all connected within the mind of God.

Am I making sense there? Basically, it's by letting go of God that led me to FIND God lol which is really strange indeed, to me.


Anyhow... i do thank you for taking part here. Your contribution is welcome, and enlightening. It's always that way with anyone you can have a rational discussion with, when all parties are open minded. Even when you disagree, you can learn something about yourself

And really, in the end, that's the whole purpose of this thread.
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