Some Experiences in my Consciouness III- A bit about my HS and my Teacher

reply to post by hawkwind


CONTINUES

And this little logical discussion, is just one.

Let's briefly mention why separation is an illusion:

Because, deeply, EVERYTHING IS INTERCONNECTED and INTERDEPENDENT.

There are no closed circuits, no isolated minds or ideas, and therefore, there are no isolated beings.

We are ALL AND EVERYTHING CONNECTED in one way or another, whether we are aware of this or not.

This sole fact is in itself a "debunking" of the "James" info, for deceit at the levels he is talking about is simply not possible, and not because I say so, but because the notion IGNORES some of the very qualities of our Nature it then goes on the "reinforce", just not on the same paragraph.

Again, talking about this INTERDEPENDENCY, means that one "piece" of the puzzle is nothing without the "others"; there really are NO PIECES.

They are ALL PSYCHOLOGICAL AND CONCEPTIONAL points of view, and growth is defined by how much of these "barriers" we are able to transcend as we go along our seeming "isolated" being.

So interesting then, that the "wisdom" of our "condition" is only being revealed now... and not across time as the other "not-aware" ones... Separation is the ONLY possible explanation for that phenomenon, but since there really is no separation, HOW IN THE WORLD DID HE FIND THIS OUT?

You see where I am getting?

I could go on, but as to not hammer the issue too much, I will leave it here, hoping to get your opinion, and that of whoever is reading.

These are important matters we are talking about...

Allllright I'll stay and play a little longer I do find this a lot more fun than I've had in a long time.
First off I appreciate that you read the material because I don't know that many have the depth of experience such as your own from which to critically approach this. I must also note that I find the material to contain parts that contain contradictions. But I'm not sure that one can when trying to use this mode (words) as a means of describing some experiences that defy words, can ovoid them. I've come to see them as Contra (revolutionary) diction. one might have to look behind the words to here what is being related.
That said lets address the First part of your reply, the part that makes No Sense. For that lets put ourself at the Round Table and pretend for a moment we are sitting at the round table of the One that has as an individuated chosen incarnation the one thread that became known to us as the Christ. When that expression shed his mortal coil as it were, that expression is drawn to the astral level that suits his belief system and continues the expression's learning and lessons that are governed by the limits set by the One, for that experience. Each one of the expressions that we have in the moment that have shed their mortal coils are in such a position as this.
I mentioned in an earlier post that you might be a final in your Ones choice of experiencing this journey of separation and I 'm not sure I like ladder terms such as first last etcetera they reek to much of this pyramid sham. So lets say that that expression is the resolutionary. As you and I explore and move through the different densities of the Astral we encounter ourselves on levels of said "spiritual realms". I encounter my Christic self. Through our encounter and shared experience that expression is furthered in it's own journey and returns up the thread and here I am perhaps wrongly assuming a shared experience of such thread, and the Christic's journey is fully completed and sits fully and resolved as it were at the Round Table. While the Christ resided in that level, as a "master" guide or what ever, was still bound by the limits of those concepts and ideas which governed that realm and would not necessarily be aware of those limits until moving with your communion fully back home as it were.
From purely my own experience of these realms of experience I have concluded that even the ones that feel really "loving" supportive and free of negative influence such as the Angelic realm are constructs that we collectively created over time and will dissolve when we are all done with them. They, in my expression of myself, might, while residing there, feel and be quite real.
Again I will reiterate that I don't necessarily agree with all that James puts forward and question much of the material. I'm not sure I buy for instance the source of his material and yet it is the propositions and description of the journey of separation ie the prison we all are liberating ourselves from I find concurrent with my own experience.
As you said I feel a break coming on and will continue with this in a while, responding to the rest of your reply. I remain as you do a healthy skeptic until I can confirm something as my own experience. I believe James's embellishments detract from his information and I appreciate your analysis of this material.

You are so right CC when you say that we are considering some very important issues here at the moment and please anyone else who might have taken the suggestion to read the James material or wishes to comment on our current discussion please to chime in.
Some time, in perhaps the eightie, there began to circulate amongst those following this path a phrase. "We are not human beings trying to become spiritual, rather we are spiritual beings having a human experience." I believe that this was the beginning of what that gentleman in Arizona shared with me about spiritual teaching and disciplines. That we would find them all lacking. I believe this to be true in a subtle way that is true in the 180 turn the quote implies.
There has been few who have written truthfully and with true understanding of this shift in perspective, as I believe we are in the infancy of this shift for all of us. People such as Niel Walsh and The Conversation with God books, or From Onions to Pearls I forget the author, the Matrix material and James' interview are all beginning stabs from those that are expressing the current wish of SELF to end this experience of separation.
I feel no need to define separation and illusion as I believe all earnest and awakening individuations understand at this point what that implies. Very simply it is the experience of what is not true about THE NATURE of and TRUTH of THE SELF ie FIRST SOURCE, ONE GOD and all other titles we have given to THE ONE.
Why did I create such an experience is a question that arises in almost all of myselves who are exploring this. To know MYSELF,not, I already do, how could I not. If you look in your heart of hearts and are honest, you've known THE TRUTH all along. I created all of life in this dimension and any other in this universe and all others. What I am after is to experience my creation. What else as THE ONE would be open to me? To experience anything one has to have an absolute objective way of experiencing that which you choose to experience and an experience to compare it with, otherwise it's not truly an experience. So I gave myself the forget pill and now it is wearing off as I am sure many of you can attest to. You came into this life as resolutioaries and by your remembrance and lives are transmitting to the rest of me the desire to end this illusion.
What purpose, for each of us has this experience served? Ask yourself when you see the atrocities that are still being experienced on this unique and beautiful beyond imagining planet of ours what it empowers you to express in your daily lives. yOUR TRUE NATURE ?
"So interesting then, that the "wisdom" of our "condition" is only being revealed now... and not across time as the other "not-aware" ones... Separation is the ONLY possible explanation for that phenomenon, but since there really is no separation, HOW IN THE WORLD DID HE FIND THIS OUT?"
This is where perhaps we could end up in a circle of contra-dictions that might go on from now until we are all done as it were. As I said before I don't ascribe to much of what James put forward and I won't judge the manner in which he found this to be true or even if it was his direct experience or not. What I do want for us to entertain here is the conclusion and or the beginning he puts forward. That when you and I have resolved all the lives at the round table all pretense and embellishment of expressing to others, to our last breath as he put it, OUR TRUE NATURE. By surrendering all concepts, spiritual perceptions or religious dogmas and move through that dark night of the soul, not the void as he called it, we allow SELF to be fully present. The previous paragraph is my way of sharing no matter how imperfectly what that feels like. Does it feel a little uncomfortable, perhaps, and yet this is not the first time and it would only be due to my own still lingering resistance that perhaps makes it so.

continuation and ending

Linear time is an illusion but damn what a good one eh and its a part of the overall experience of what is NOT. It will end as perhaps the Maya and others foresaw as all of us end this illusion and life returns to its primordial now. Imagine the party I WE will have. The appreciation for, through our direct experience, WE will share for the TRUE BEAUTY and diverse MAGNIFICENCE of this watery blue jewel of yOUR creation.
Play on

reply to post by hawkwind


Hi Hawkwind... nice to be back... and how pertinent that we speak about these things on THIS thread...

I mention it because this morning I came and saw your very fine response (in which I also noticed to have you back more in your shape) and I sat down and started writing...

At the end of a lengthy discourse, I was feeling a bit uneasy about something... suddenly, as HS I took over, went and deleted the whole thing with one click... first time since ATS...

I was amazed and pleasantly surprised, and told that I needed to think about this for a bit longer.

And so I did.

I took a tour around the ATS forums and other places, and went about my rainy day, and finally came to was has been irking me for a while now, a splinter of the mind.

In "here", I saw the usual discussions of lower astrals, of revelations, of disasters to come.. the usual. And then it hit me... Some COULD be "right", but just from a VERY limited point of view...

And thus, that I was following a usual tendency of mine, which is to look TOO FAR AHEAD sometimes.

I agreed with almost all you wrote and enjoyed very much your post. If I may, I will use one of your thoughts to explain my point:

From purely my own experience of these realms of experience I have concluded that even the ones that feel really "loving" supportive and free of negative influence such as the Angelic realm are constructs that we collectively created over time and will dissolve when we are all done with them. They, in my expression of myself, might, while residing there, feel and be quite real.

This, as much of what you said, and much of what is going on, is right, but under OUR point of view ONLY.

While it is true, for example, that some PLACES as "Angelic" realms are created BY AND FOR ourselves for different purposes, THEY STILL REFLECT much deeper realities in turn, and it is THOSE that I refer to.

(This without talking about thought-forms, such as "demons" and the kind, that are TRULY just made up of OUR thin exhausts...)

For example, the analysis that you made of the Christ's Round Table, and any other for that matter, applies, but only as seen from our perspective "UPWARD".

My point is that when speaking about the Christ, about the DEEP levels of reality, about our Teachers and guides, and other Inner realms, they all reflect a reality that is being brought "DOWN" to us, from the OUTSIDE of our constructed Universes INTO our SOUL experience.

What we see from here is just "the bottom end", but it should not deter us from realizing that there is WAY more than meets our "mind" eye.

The Christ, is not an being who evolved FROM our Soul level and rose to show us a way. He "comes" from FAR BEYOND any level even within our sight at the moment, and this is speaking even as a complete HS, or as a Soul.

He comes from the "Out" INTO our realm, transversely into ALL ITS LEVELS, FOR our benefit, so that we can begin to comprehend the immense, vast and infinite Being we ARE, from which we come from and an experience to which we WILL return, eventually (a very long eventually, again, from our standpoint and time-warped conceptions).

The "Soul" of my Teacher, the Inner Being with whom HE shares experience, is a SOUL that begins to disappear from our conceptional abilities, to dwell into the Divine, which is our euphemism for " I can feel it but cannot comprehend it".

At THAT level, the "rules", the environment, the landscape, EVERYTHING is "designed" to enhance HIS experience, just as ours is suited for our own growth, and those realities respond and have a source from even DEEPER levels, as seen BY THEM. Imagine us...

The potentials for growth and development which are available to such advanced Beings, is far from our ability to comprehend, and there is even no need for it. It's like a 5 year old taking a tour of Harvard. "Nice"... but where's the ice-cream shop?"

The realms in which the evolved Soul HAS its experience, as well, responds to its own DEEPER realities, and this "Reality" is one that will be meaningful AT THAT LEVEL, and so forth...

And again, let us not forget, this is still all "conventions", because the separations are just CONCEPTUAL.

So, to bring this down to our discussion, we have lots of people applying characteristics, personality traits, geographic descriptions, and assigning roles of different kinds to deeper realms in which they simply DO NOT APPLY.

It is just a more sophisticated levels of SOUL-ANTHROPOMORPHISM.

Most people are still looking at LIMITED aspects and versions of what is going on.

This is why I was invited to reflect...

As we are BEING SHOWN wider views of the picture, it is only natural that we still RESIST leaving most of the 3d "cloaking" behind, and all the "rules of the game", and the IMAGES that we have in our minds as to how the "next" could be become clouded by our condition.

As we sit in the Round Table, there IS a way of FORESEEING what our more "grown-up" possibilities can be.

And I say it like this because, as humans we seem to be in pre-kindergarden. The Soul BEGINS to feel as an "adult" in some ways, though I'm not so sure...

So I when I listen to all this astral rhetoric, and Annunaki conspiracies, demonic figures, and ALL that comic-book paraphernalia, while it CAN respond to some characteristics and on-going dramas of SOME levels of our present Soul experience, when viewed from a slightly MORE COMPLETE perspective, it all sounds as pre-teens extremely worried about their video-game storylines.

There is just more to it.

This is, as an explanation, where my sense of security and tranquility stems, for we have been shown the possibilities, yes, but also from where they come from, and THIS IS THE CRUX OF ALL.

The DEEP levels, the Inner levels, the Source of our and ALL reality, is SO BEYOND these TEMPORARY "conflicts" that, in and from its core, it emanates ONLY Being, only confidence, and only hard-work-that-will-pay on the way.

This CAN and DOES reach us.

So this is where I would invite you and the two people who accompany us in this exchange to reflect, and to consider it possible to follow the trails, and send your mind INTO the Divine, and don't stop until you cannot anymore...

The plays, the roles, and the dramas, are ALL temporary, no matter the level.

True Being is not.

THIS IS the next level for us.

What purpose, for each of us has this experience served? Ask yourself when you see the atrocities that are still being experienced on this unique and beautiful beyond imagining planet of ours what it empowers you to express in your daily lives. yOUR TRUE NATURE ?

Hawkwind, my belief is that we are higher beings experiencing the human experience but from your statement above it sounds to me like you regret it?

Life though crude and chaotic does have beauty and love. And this beauty and love is ENHANCED by our condition. The fear of loss. The sense of fragility. I just don't know how a spiritual being can experience those without doing what we are doing now.

Obsidience

reply to post by obsidience


No regrets obsidience. What I was very simply getting at was that perhaps in the simplicity of it all, if the only real desire that the original creator of life can have is the experience of that creation, then all the experiences of what is not true to our nature we go through here in the illusion serve us in that they empower us to search for, remember and express our true nature.

A simple Hi to my friends and whoever has cared.

Due to work obligations, I will be out for a few days, maybe only until Monday.

When I come back, it will be to post the last thread, on the dream environment and "aliens".

Hope to see you then.

reply to post by citizenc


citizenc, I'm looking forward to your next post

Obsidience

reply to post by obsidience


Thanks to you and to all my friends in the ATS woods...

As some of you might suspect, the holidays are an excellent time to celebrate and for musicians to do some extra work... so I have been busier than expected...

Anyways, a happy holidays wish to all, and as soon as my mayhem ends, I'll be back with the promised last post.

HHs!!

CC,

I hope all is well. Still looking forward to your final installment ;-)

Obsidience

reply to post by obsidience


Good to be back and remembered by some good ATS friends...

I had been delayed first by work, and then by two personal situations and a "practical" one, so I was kindly invited by my HS to take a break, take care of some issues, and come back to deal with my threads and other themes when the time and energies were available.

I look forward to participating fully again. In a way however, I am happy I did not post the last thread when I thought I was supposed to, since some new events have reinforced some aspects I was only going to briefly mention, and they have now taken precedence so to speak.

So, the "new" thread will be slightly different, yet more in line with the current events that, from the brief tour I have just taken and seeing how people are analyzing and reacting to them, the core and important deep issues that move and provoke the waves still elude the general public.

Let's hope we can create some momentum and deeper awareness.

Till the next thread, CC.

LAST POST...

While thanking the friends that have cared to wonder where I have been, I feel sorry to say that the last promised thread will not be.

I have been "sent away" in a special period of training and meditation, so I will continue to be away for a while.

As had been noted before, some of the doomsday scenarios that have been thrown in the wind are much less likely to happen now (if they even were at all....), and that is partly because the attention has been going into some "misleading" directions, while the MORE concrete areas of Humanity's experiences have been slightly overlooked.

Maybe, if I get to "be back" and participate more regularly, we will be able to discuss the world around, and what MAY really happen.

Until then, thanks.

CC

[edit on 19-7-2009 by citizenc]