Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by Seekingmyself

a bachelors degree is becoming a high school diploma; soon you won't be able to find a job without it. I don't understand why the cost of tuition has risen so much.

It has become so expensive because they're trying to restore some balance. If a bachelor's degree has become a high school diploma, then that means with said bachelor's degree you should only be entitled to a comparable career and salary that the previous generations high school graduate recieved. Welcome to the career of ditch-digger, twenty-first century style, in other words. Like I said above, it used to be an honor and a rarity for a family member to get a college degree. We need to return to those days ASAP. Cheap higher education is one of the primary reasons inflation has outstripped the growth of personal income. Back in the day middle class kids could have a prayer to lift themselves out of middle class by getting the college education which made them a valuable commodity and provided them with a better salary. Unfortunately, once that degree is no longer an exception, but has become the rule amongst young people looking for employment, the employers have a larger crop to choose from and do not have to pay the better wages anymore to lure the once-rare college grad into their fold.

So it seems to be a very vicious cycle then, yes? I think part of it may be that each generation had more kids going off to college. Parents who have degrees are much more expectant that their children get an education. That being said, I feel that you are looked down upon if you do not attend college. I was a very rare person....my dad did not want me to go to college, he thought I should join the army instead. I think he forgot how sensitive and girly I am, haha. But it is EXPECTED of you to go to college these days...if you don't, you are a slacker, even if you work hard full-time and work your way up. I agree with you, it should be an honor to go to college, not a right.

With that said, something still needs to be done. Furthering of an education is a very desirable goal, in my opinion. I enjoy learning...but I don't enjoy paying for it. The way that our government lends us aid is all wrong. My dad is not supporting me at all, like I said, he did not want me to go. The FAFSA (Federal financial aid) is all backwards. The amount of aid you receive is only based on your parents' income. The only way it is not based on your parents' income is if you are 24, married, or have a baby. I know a lot of people who are going to school for almost free because they have a kid....which is ridiculous, why are we rewarding those who have children from a one night stand or when they are 16? The other issue I have is that you could get kicked out by your parents when you are 18, and paying all of your own bills and rent, etc. Your income is STILL based on your parents' income, and if they make 75k a year, you are out of luck and can't strive to further your education until you meet one of the qualifications to be a dependent student. That has always bothered me.

University education is largely a joke now as far as graduates. I am completing my Ph.D. and the quality of students is quite low at many institutions because they mostly have an entitlement attitude and think that the State/Nation owes them an education. But I would have to say that I agree to an extent.

My great-grandparents emigrated to this nation, busted their butts, as did their children, their children's children... and now I have the opportunity to get the education that they never did. So I did, loans and all. These systems were set up on taxpayer dollars that three generations worked to provide. They did it for *me* and I owe it to *them* to take advantage of it.

Do I think education is a right? No.
Do I think education should be free? No.

But now the entire system is being mostly dominated by liberals and socialist "scholars" who want to further their causes and brainwash the masses. This starts in kindergarten (and even pre-K with the incoming administration) and goes all the way through the highest levels. And at the highest levels, it is in large part educating foreigners and leaving our citizens behind.

The answer is to remove Federal and state control. They break everything they touch, or worse... it is turned into a tool for those in power to undermine the things that this nation was founded upon.

I personally think we should abolish private colleges/universities. State systems are much much cheaper and your getting the same education.

We have some excellent schools in the SUNY and CUNY systems (Stony Brook and City College of NY for example) and many of the SUNY community colleges are among the top community colleges in the nation.

I attend a SUNY community college and by no means am I getting a bad education, if anything I do more work then many of my friends that attend private colleges/universities. My particular community college is one of the top in the nation.

Originally posted by warrenb
education needs to be free for people of all ages

if that ever happens; we will see humanity taking a step in the right direction

I was about to post this exact phrase.


Paying for education is as greedy,selfish and stupid as it gets.
The tech school I went too a few years ago is $800 a quarter (4 months) and they do absolutly nothing other than give you a semi quiet place to study.

There's a problem, yes. The education is an investment -- human capital investment -- where the profits of education, the return on investment, allow you to pay back what you need to borrow to get it. Too many people are attending college now. Something around 30% of students take more than their four years to graduate, and a huge percentage don't graduate at all. And then a large percentage of those with college degrees don't even get a job in the field in which they were educated! The emphasis on "degrees" is ridiculous.


Now, this caught my eye:

Originally posted by ChrisF231
We have some excellent schools in the SUNY and CUNY systems (Stony Brook and City College of NY for example) and many of the SUNY community colleges are among the top community colleges in the nation.

I'm going to Stony Brook right now.

I am currently attending a Junior College. I am one of the lucky few that has a company footing a large percentage of the bill. This makes is more affordable on me, just like so many that graduate with good grades get companies that reimburse them to pay off loans.

I have to say from first hand experience that there are some kids that do not belong in college until they mature a bit. Some of them are there just for the sake of being there. They end up auditing or dropping the class at the last minute, making the money and time spent worthless.

As far as tuitions going up, there is a reason for that as well. Do you know how much some of the computer software costs that these courses are using? You can teach a modern day class with out dated software. You cant run new software on outdated computers. This costs tons of money. Teachers make pretty darn good salaries as well. You cant ask a master's degree holder to teach for $60k a year. They would laugh at you. Forget asking a PhD unless you have a lot of cash to throw at them. Most campuses now have their own private law enforcement. These guys are just like cops, only the salary is better.

All of this is hardly offset with government grant money, which a lot of Junior and Senior colleges get. So, as the costs go up, so do the tuitions.

I would love to see free secondary education up to at least Graduate level. I know that it will not happen anytime soon. It would take a corporate tax rate of about 70% and an income tax rate of 50% just to pull it off. Then the people who dont choose college are the ones crying because they are funding all the education for nothing.

Its a sharp and deadly sword. For now, I cut out my nightlife and apply that money to my books.

Oh, did I forget to mention that apart from being a full time student, I also work full time as well? Sleep during the week is limited to around 4 hours a night and weekends are nothing but study and homework. Dont tell me about how hard people have it. I just have resolve to sacrifice for however many years it takes to see myself with a career boosting degree along with all of the experience I am gaining on the way.

It's the law of supply and demand. Everyone is demanding access to college for their children, since in times past it was a gateway to the middle class and beyond. Unfortunately college is a poor choice for most of the uneducated masses of America. Middle school and high school are nothing but baby sitting centers and breeding grounds for world wide socialism.

Except for the hard sciences college is completely irrelevant and a waste of money. You get a much better return by going to trade school and learning how to perform a service, hopefully one that can not be easily exported to China. Electricians and plumbers make more than most college graduates.

As for the hard sciences, most Americans are too dumb to contribute anything here any more. For the ones that can make the grade, it should be completely subsidized, since these are critical skills. China is producing a million engineering grad.s every year. America, by contrast, is rapidly descending into third world status. 70% of people in grad. school in engineering and science are from overseas. Again Americans are more concerned about American idol, or sports to care about learning anything.

Originally posted by projectvxn
The higher "education" system is nothing more than another HUGE debt generating scheme. And under it's current model it will fail along with every other part of the American Empire. Because the entire thing is one giant debt generating cluster-#, and these things tend to come to a halt in rather devastating ways.

I really don't agree with you, maybe because of SevenThunders' "hard sciences" exception. I'm going for biomedical engineering, and the resources and educational requirements really couldn't be duplicated otherwise. (I mention my major because it's pretty unique in the amount of inter-disciplinary sciences you have to learn an apply) I don't love the way some things are structured, but aside from changing the way some courses are taught, I'm not sure how else I would do it.

Now, for the liberal arts majors...that may be another story. I don't know.

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
I have to say from first hand experience that there are some kids that do not belong in college until they mature a bit. Some of them are there just for the sake of being there. They end up auditing or dropping the class at the last minute, making the money and time spent worthless.

Universities seem to have gone downhill from being centres of academic excellence to being highstreet retail-education...as long as you can pay the fees you too can have a degree in whatever subject we made up (BA in Cats anyone?)

The Batchelors degree is being devalued to the point that the Masters is now the new benchmark

The running joke holds true:

Q: What do you say when you meet a Media Studies graduate?
A: Big Mac and Fries please

What a sad sorry state of affairs when we put an unobtainable price on educating the people on this planet.
This merely keeps humanity down, and keeps them as good slaves, for the ones at the top.
In reality, you can educate yourself.
Although you don't have a piece of paper, you can still be up to standard with those who do.
But it is still sad that we don't make education in every form free for all people on this planet.
Imagine how far we would come in only a short time.
There may be some little kid in Africa, who if given the right knowledge could cure cancer.
Could be some lady in South America, who will never see a College or University, who could cure diabetes.
But of course they don't want a cure for cancer or diabetes, because cancer treatment makes there rich life good while people die unnecessarily.
Evil selfish ego's bring this planet down.

The big joke about these high education costs is you have institutions like Harvard that have 36 Billion! in endowments (Oops 28 Billion... Economy is hitting everyone hard, they recently lost 8 Billion over last year). In fact over 70 Colleges have over 1 billion in endowments. While they still charge exorbitant tuition fees and get tax free status from the government.

Whats really needed is the U.S. education system (K - 12) needs to be elevated to where you have college level math, science, and English before you go onto higher education which then would be specific to your career. Because a large majority of college is crap classes that don't pertain to the actual technical degree just to squeeze more money out of the student.

This should not cost any more since we already pay about 5-10x more then anyone else in developed world for public education and get worse results. It just needs to be more efficient.