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A VERY entertaining debate. I thoroughly enjoyed the efforts of both, especially the creativity of John Bull, but found the real life arguments of DeltaChaos more concrete and ultimately compelling.
We have thousands of words spent on what, in summary, was a one sentence VS.. one sentence battle....slightly ironic, since it was a philosophical clichť being debated.
Pro(P): "Now here we see that the ?end? part is at the beginning suggesting that we?re looking at situations from the point of view of the results".
Con(C): "Any questionable action can not be justified by an end that is unknown and unknowable".
Both P & C are valid. What differentiated them & gave the argument to C? The closing argument of C detailing the tense - if the P & C arguments are passed through a crucible of tense, the tense as stated in the argument, C is more true.
For both contestants, throw out all but the closing statements & you would have had a most excellent debate in an abbreviated form.
Two fitting and deserving fighters arrived at the finals, and unfortunaltely, one had to lose. This was a very tough decision, as it was close enough that I had to read the debate twice to come to my conclusion.
DC cited several viable examples and presented an awesome case and as usual, JB1 captivated me with his clever style, I felt as though I was there, watching him speak.
But alas, I had to choose the one who I felt made the best argument. DC's presentation was excellent and it almost worked for me, but in the end, I had to place my vote with JB1, as his argument was ultimately the better one in my opinion. JB1 argued the core of this debate, leaving the simple and less fundemental examples aside.
Great debate,as the final should be. Both fought it out to the end. But in the end I feel that DC came through on top. His debating skills are top notch,witty, and informative. DC stayed on top through the entire tournament,and in this judges opinion,the best debator.
Good job JB1, sorry about the mud in your time machine,my bad.
The opening was great from both of you, however I felt that John Bull1 had the edge in this round. I was especially impressed with his laying out a direction for such an open ended topic.
Round 1 Delta Chaos, why did you apologize "...in advance" for such a well written post in this round? John Bull1, your rebuttal was truly imaginitive, and I read with great ease, as your intentions still flow forward so smooth.
Round 2 John Bull1, a superior, hypothetical situation to ponder upon. Glad I didn't pull the trigger!
Round 3 Delta Chaos "...pointless..." Yes, I agree. Reason? First is that half of the people reading this debate do not understand your attept in trying to convey a southern accent. Second, I have ties, and have resided in both Georgia and Alabama.
However, "Here are the points" was well written, and I enjoyed.
I wish to add that this debate was most interesting! My hat is off to both of you, I sure enjoyed.
This was a well argued debate. I was sad to see delta chaos concede his position by agreeing that horrific war weapons were a case of the means not justifying the end. He was charged with debating the opposite.
DeltaChoas was wise to point out the beneficial side effects of horrible mistakes (mainly realizing just how horrible they are), but that contradicts his argument!
John Bull 1 took an interesting tack with his narrative stories. However, he didn't say very much that was new. I found his argument to be slightly repeititious. But his philisophical argument is strong: in the face of an unknown future, how can one justify means to an end?
In my judgement, because DC conceded way to much ground and JB1 points out the impossibility of justify unknown action, I raise JB1's debating boxing hand.
Wow! Great debate there guys, however JB1 swung it very much in his favour for two reasons. First, although DC had the opening statement it was actually JB1 who threw down the gauntlet first of where he was going to take this debate, and effectively put him in the driving seat. DC passed up the glorious opportunity to put himself in the driving seat first but passed it up, this in a debate is unacceptable.
Second is JB1's awesome writing skills. He didn't just argue his point, trying to ram it home to the reader like DC, he instead decided to invite the reader on his journey with him. Reading it was like participating in it with JB1, and as a result was utterly enthralling and fantastic to read. DC could never match up to this in the approach he took in my opinion.