Are Atheists Morally Superior To Theists?

post by Welfhard[/url]

 

And yet religion would have you believe that without god (or man's/religions interpretation of god), we cannot know the right way to behave and only by following this, that and the other....can we ever be moral or decent people... makes ya laugh huh?

yes The flip side of this claim, may look something like...

Most christians know less about morality than Stephen Hawking knows about ballroom dancing! ~ Nick Gisburne

Gisburne cracks me up while at the same time has me applauding his coverage of what forms the root of human morals and for introducing me to Aesop's fables... which all of my favorite childhood stories were derived from.






[edit on 20-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


It destroys your assertion that they were not atheists, at least the argument you used to claim that they were not. Humans do nasty crap regardless their belief system hate to tell you. No belief system be it atheism or christianity negates human nature now matter how much both sides like to pretend their particular favorite idea does.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


It's by far more complicated then your summary. When you add hypocrisy to the mix the sin's impact is at least doubled. On this note, i ran across a commentary page yesterday on The Guardian titled Clinging on as a practising Catholic which what appears to be a response to How long can we hang on to a morally bankrupt church?

Many interesting responses but the one that really spoke to me...

It must be tough to be Catholic at the moment, but I have a solution. If you must believe in an imaginary friend (or god, if you prefer), why not opt to worship him/her/it from the comfort of your own home in the manner of your choosing. Or do you require all that rigmarole and ceremony to give your faith meaning? Do the religious believe in god, or do they "believe" in the ritual, togetherness and sense of community. If it's the latter, perhaps they could join a choir, football club or gardening group and avoid all the pain, hatred and intolerance religions routinely inflict on others.
~ Joanne Columbine -Bury, Lancashire

Reminds me of a study i covered in an old thread of mine, Given "Expert" Advice, Brains Shut Down. We have more lenient charges for those who commit crimes via by proxy but this doesn't make the sin/crime less serious/important. When you give an organization your time, effort and finances in support... and they commit crimes against humanity... then you are an accessory in my book.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Can we all agree? ... on at least this ...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3bb25d48ccdd.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


Not really, it's not as quick and simple as that and often one's spiritual beliefs aren't really the point of contention.

reply to post by The All Seeing I


You didn't even address what I said.............

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by The All Seeing I

 

Not really, it's not as quick and simple as that and often one's spiritual beliefs aren't really the point of contention.

ok let me take another look at what you have proposed...

It destroys your assertion that they were not atheists, at least the argument you used to claim that they were not.

What are you referring to as "It" and what "argument" have i used that does not meet your standard?... and while you are at it, what "argument" would meet your approval? From where i an standing, my explanation is simple logic at work.

reply to post by The All Seeing I


Re-read the history please.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Sorry i can't read your mind, i don't know what you are specifically finding fault with. You'll have to make more of an effort then just pointing me in a broad/general direction.

reply to post by The All Seeing I


No, I explained myself and don't have the wish to retype it because someone refuses to review the thread history. Believe whatever you wish though.

Where religion talks about religion, it is often thought that religion is the originator of morality. Christianity is so young though, only a little over 2000 years old. (Don't try to argue it's older or we'll have to discuss the literal truth of the old testament and that is an argument any christian will lose).

Morality is evolutionary. It is part of the development of any species. Morality didn't suddenly come into existence with christ, or the bible would talk about ultimate chaos before he began his work. Jesus lived in a structured society with a sense of morality, otherwise his death on the cross would have had no context.

Edit for my dodgy typing.

[edit on 5/24/2009 by mithrawept]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by The All Seeing I

 

No, I explained myself and don't have the wish to retype it because someone refuses to review the thread history. Believe whatever you wish though.

Are you referring to ....

Originally posted by The All Seeing I

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
You're bending semantics here, quite dishonestly. They wished to be worshiped "as gods" they didn't believe they were gods and just because they wished to be worshipped "as gods" doesn't make them not atheists as they were because they did not believe in gods.

A bit presumptuous and misguided. Whether they believed they were gods or not... or were atheists or not... doesn't change the fact that their populous was governed by a political cult... where the leader is embraced as a messiah/god. No bending of semantics are required to come to these conclusions.

... if so, what is the problem?

Originally posted by mithrawept
Morality is evolutionary. It is part of the development of any species.

Absolutely... and i would even argue that our journey in evolution has reached a point where we need a new reference manual on morals. The Bible, Koran and Bhagavad Gita are all grossly out dated, speaking to a less informed populous in time, that no longer exists. I see a lot of pop-psychology and spiritual-psychology paving the way to a more compassionate insightful society.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


I stated that as well, though after the post referenced.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


ok very funny, joke is on me...
as i suspected you are more interested in playing games.
Thank you for the silly waste of time... i think?

Originally posted by Lightmare
reply to post by The All Seeing I

 

No, atheists are not morally superior to theists. Mainly because the sterotypes you listed are not as valid as you think they are.

While most Christians agree that homosexuality is a sin, the percentage of Christians who actually hate homosexuals is very small. Actual hatred of homosexuals is confined to some very small fringe groups within the faith. The majority of Christians do not hate homosexuals.

Also, I have never met a Christian that would deny themself or anyone else a blood transfusion or other important medical attention if it was needed. Again, there are small fringe groups within the faith who might do that. But the majority of Christians do not subscribe to that school of thought.

As you probably guessed, I am a Christian. I am also a male who has never had a problem with being led, guided, or instructed by a female. I do not consider women to be the "weaker vessel". I consider them to be equal.

And lastly, while it is true that Christians have not had the best track record for being good stewards of God's beautiful creation, some of us ARE working to change that.

When you just lay out some basic facts, it's not hard to see the conspiracy/ignorance in those who constantly mislabel religious people with all of these stereotypes.

[edit on 12/2/2008 by Lightmare]

If christians don't oppose homosexuality, then they can't be christians. It says so in the bible. If you pick and choose what's in the bible, then you are going against gods will, unless of course the bible isn't gods will after all? If the bible isn't god will, then it was made by man. It which case, it is open to the ambitions and failing of man. If the bible is god's word, then I expect you to begin stoning homosexuals to death immediately.

No really, the bible says that a homosexuals should be put to death:

Leviticus 20:13 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.'

When was the last time you heard of an atheist putting someone to death or dening their rights because of their sexuality?

Atheists are clearly morally and ethically superior to theists.


Edit for dodgy typing.

[edit on 5/24/2009 by mithrawept]

Originally posted by The All Seeing I

Originally posted by mithrawept
Morality is evolutionary. It is part of the development of any species.

Absolutely... and i would even argue that our journey in evolution has reached a point where we need a new reference manual on morals. The Bible, Koran and Bhagavad Gita are all grossly out dated, speaking to a less informed populous in time, that no longer exists. I see a lot of pop-psychology and spiritual-psychology paving the way to a more compassionate insightful society.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Agreed. Theism is just it's own perpetuating husk, based on the indoctrination of the children of theists. All that religion has to teach us is the regurgitated nonsense from a book written from selected gospels and interpreted by theists for their own agenda. If not then we would be committing adulterers to death, because that's what the bible tells us to do with them.

Originally posted by mithrawept
Leviticus 20:13 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.'

With that verse you reminded me of The Trials of Ted Haggard.

Is he using jesus as his magic "get out of hell card"... if you believe in him you are forgiven? If you don't... you will go to hell?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b3af279d2061.jpg[/atsimg]

Interesting interview that has me puzzled over the ability for theists to wash away their sins... as their faith enables them to go on in denial of their true nature... which i fail to see the morality in lying to oneself and others.





[edit on 25-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
You're bending semantics here, quite dishonestly. They wished to be worshiped "as gods" they didn't believe they were gods and just because they wished to be worshipped "as gods" doesn't make them not atheists as they were because they did not believe in gods.

Please explain how the likes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Kim II Sung... are any different then the "gods" listed on Listverse's Top 10 Self-Appointed Messiahs.

The idea and use of "hell" is in itself an immoral device, as author of "The Sins of Scripture" so eloquently puts it.

John Shelby Spong, retired Episcopal bishop from Newark, N.J., talks about why Christianity must change its view of hell. Spong is one of the leading spokepersons for liberal Christianity.