the problem with the "UFO cover up", page 2

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reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 02:44 AM by ziggystar60

reply to post by NavalFC

Well, I have stated my opinion about this, and I stand by it. There are many things that points clearly to a UFO cover up, I have mentioned some of them in this thread.

So I guess we just have to agree to disagree about this particular matter.

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 03:16 AM by NavalFC

Originally posted by ziggystar60
reply to post by NavalFC

Well, I have stated my opinion about this, and I stand by it. There are many things that points clearly to a UFO cover up, I have mentioned some of them in this thread.

So I guess we just have to agree to disagree about this particular matter.

Indeed, me, and the actual evidence and conclusions based on what it says, not what we want it to say, will disagree with you and your conclusions based on pure conjecture

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 03:35 AM by ziggystar60

reply to post by NavalFC

The two of us disagree, that is right. And I suspect we will continue to do so.

Anyway, in this article you can read what another Apollo astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, thinks about the matter:

Former Apollo 14 moonwalker Edgar Mitchell claimed, in a recent radio interview, that not only have aliens been visiting the Earth for the past sixty years since the Roswell incident, but that Earth governments are aware of this fact and are covering it up.

www.associatedcontent.com...

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 05:00 AM by Leto

The op has clearly not read UFOs And The National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-up 1941-1973, by Richard Dolan.

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 05:23 AM by NavalFC

reply to post by ziggystar60

I dont care what one thinks. I care what one KNOWS.
Edgar Mitchell by his own saying says his information is second and third hand, he himslf was not invovled in any UFO cover up or alien activity.

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 05:24 AM by NavalFC

reply to post by Leto

Oh yes, as if that one publication out of the whole SEA of UFO books contains that one nugget of truth, that one speck of UFO salvation that will make me get on my knees and convert from my evil skeptical ways, the one thing that will prove everything the UFO conspiracy proponents say!
hallalulah, UFO !!!!!!

Get real

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 06:57 AM by ziggystar60

reply to post by NavalFC

It is of course entirely up to you what you think of these matters, neither "side" of this debate has much proof of anything. I have just provided some of the information that makes ME think there is a very real cover up going on. A cover up which I think has been going on for years.

This thread has also the potential to go on for years, I am sure.

I wish you the best of luck with it. I have said my bit, but perhaps there are other members here at ATS who will stop by and share their views with you and continue the discussion.

reply posted on 4-12-2008 @ 07:37 PM by Leto

Originally posted by NavalFC
reply to post by Leto

Oh yes, as if that one publication out of the whole SEA of UFO books contains that one nugget of truth, that one speck of UFO salvation that will make me get on my knees and convert from my evil skeptical ways, the one thing that will prove everything the UFO conspiracy proponents say!
hallalulah, UFO !!!!!!

Get real

You say you have a problem with the "ufo cover-up theory" but your response seems to suggest you've already made your mind up on the situation.

I'll give you an example from the book. On January 22, 1958, Donald Keyhoe and some Air Force representatives appeared on the CBS television show Armstrong Circle Theather for a program titled "UFO - Enigma of the Skies." Keyhoe had wanted to discuss the 1947 ATIC (Twining) letter, the 1948 Estimate of the Situation, the 1952 Air Force intelligence analysis of UFO maneuvers, and the Robertson Panel of January 1953. Instead CBS refused to let him discuss these issues. The show's producer told him "but they deny there ever were any such conclusions. If we let you say it, they'll stand up and deny it."

Keyhoe told him to let them deny it, but the producer still refused. Keyhoe then wanted to use the cases that the Air Force had already cleared for him in 1952, but the producer told him "Even if the cases were cleared the Air Force will try to refute them now."

During the show Keyhoe forced himself to read the lines of the teleprompter until he couldn't take it anymore and suddenly stated "And now, I'm going to reveal something that has never been disclosed before." That was the last thing heard from him on the show, without his knowledge the main microphone switch was turned off.

Viewers called in asking why Keyhoe's sound had been cut. Days later the CBS director of editing, Herbert Carlborg, admitted to Air Force censorship.

That was just a quick summary of three pages from the book. There's no doubt at all that there is a UFO cover-up, not just here in the US, but around the world.

reply posted on 9-12-2008 @ 03:43 PM by Leto

Are you now in agreement that there is indeed a government cover-up of UFO's, NavalFC, or do you require more evidence?

reply posted on 9-12-2008 @ 03:52 PM by NavalFC

Originally posted by Leto
Are you now in agreement that there is indeed a government cover-up of UFO's, NavalFC, or do you require more evidence?

with the evidence given as of now I do not belive their is. Your anecdote about a CBS PRODUCER (not the government) censoring someone not withstanding, I still dont think so. In that instane CBS was guilty of censorship. The funny thing is also, some of the documents you mention have had their position with regards to UFOs cast doubt upon or even if they are authentc, cushc as the CTW m

secondly, forbidding military members to speak on tv in the military capacity isnt just something done with UFOs. Thats regulation.

Another instance of this for example is, Military personnel cant give their opinion on political matters on tv (In military capacity)

so for example you couldnt have a guy go on tv and say

"Im general so and so, and this is why i think you should vote for who and who"

(unless they are retired)

or when the press interview military personnel on matters and such everything is cleared hrough the PAO, public affairs office, so this isnt really new.

I find it hard to believe that the government who cant even keep a single case of fellatio hidden to one room in the oval office, could keep a secret such as alleged by ufo proponents, from the entire world

[edit on 9-12-2008 by NavalFC]

reply posted on 9-12-2008 @ 04:42 PM by Leto

Originally posted by NavalFC

Originally posted by Leto
Are you now in agreement that there is indeed a government cover-up of UFO's, NavalFC, or do you require more evidence?

with the evidence given as of now I do not belive their is.

I find it hard to believe that the government who cant even keep a single case of fellatio hidden to one room in the oval office, could keep a secret such as alleged by ufo proponents, from the entire world

[edit on 9-12-2008 by NavalFC]

I don't know how you managed to interpret that story into CBS being the cause of the censorship, it's quite clear the Air Force demanded it.

As for government secrets, you understimate the government's power. It is also interesting to note that while you seem to be claiming in that post that the government can't even keep a blowjob a secret, you have in the past claimed that UFOs are merely secret US aircraft. So what is it, is our government able to keep a secret or not? You can't have it both ways.

I'll go ahead and answer that question for you, yes they can and they have kept lots of secrets.

Are you aware that between 1960 and 1973 the CIA had a secret war in Laos? They raised an army of thirty-thousand men to fight the communist Pathet Lao. The government denied it time after time, but declassified papers now makes it clear they were involved.

Are you aware that in 1962 our government proposed plans to attack Americans and blame it on Cuba? Called Operation Northwoods. Have you heard of this? It's fact:
www.retakingamerica.com...

Are you aware that on December 24, 1959, the inspector general of the Air Force issued the following warning regarding UFOs to every air base comander in the continental U.S.:
'Unindentified flying objects - sometimes treated lightly by the press and referred to as "flying saucers" - must be rapidly and accurately identified as serious USAF business in the ZI [Interior Zone].... Technical and defense considerations will continue to exist in this area.'

He then goes on to note that UFO investigators sent out from air bases "should be equipped with binoculars, camera, Geiger counter, magnifying glass, and a source for containers in which to store samples."

Do you now agree that there is a government cover-up of UFOs? I could provide more evidence.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by Leto]

reply posted on 10-12-2008 @ 05:47 AM by Fastwalker81

Originally posted by NavalFC
Ok. What proves that said aircraft is alien? Unless you have a video of the aliens themselves coming out of the craft you cant say thats what it is.

Point being that advanced aircraft in and of itself does not = alien ship.

Hold on here Naval I see you are quick to explain away UFO's as advanced aircraft. While with some sightings this could very well be the case the advanced aircraft argument doesn't hold water on others.

Lets for the sake of argument assume that you are right and UFO's are really advanced aircraft.

You mentioned the Stealth Bomber. Awsome plane, started as a black project in 1979 and flew publicly for the first time in 1989. But apparantly the Stealth Bomber was not the only advanced secret aircraft that the US goverment had at its disposal. One night 13 years before the Stealth's first public flight the US government thought they'd have some fun and piss off the Imperial Iranian Air Force.

The result: The 1976 dog-fight over Tehran.

1976: UFO DOG-FIGHT OVER TEHRAN

Official Report obtained through FOIA

Suddenly I saw it. It was rectangular in shape, probably seven to eight meters [24 to 27 ft.] long and about two meters [7 ft.] wide. From later observations I made, I would say it was probably cylindrical. The two ends were pulsating with a whitish blue color.

The F-4 took off at 01:30 a.m. and proceeded to a point about 40 nm [45 statute miles or 75 km.] North of Tehran. Due to its brilliance the object was easily visible from 70 miles [110 km.] away. As the F-4 approached a range of 25 nm [29 statute miles or 46 km.], he lost all instrumentation and communications (UHF and Intercom). He broke off the intercept and headed back to Shahrokhi. When the F-4 turned away from the object and apparently was no longer a threat to it, the aircraft regained all instrumentation and communications.

The object and the pursuing F-4 continued a course to the south of Tehran when another brightly lighted object, estimated to be .5 to .33 the apparent size of the moon, came out of the original object. The second object headed straight toward the F-4 at a very fast rate. The pilot attempted to fire an AIM-9 missile at the object, but at that instant his weapons control panel went off and he lost all communications (UHF and Interphone). At this point, the pilot initiated a turn and negative G dive to get away.

Well Naval that sounds like one hell of a secret aircraft. The Stealth Bomber which was not even on the drawing table at the time pales in comparison.

But the US government couldn't resist the urge to secretly test another advanced aircraft some 25 years after the Tehran incident. This time they chose a highly populated area over Belgium to "have some fun".

The result was the Belgium UFO wave.

1989-1990: UFO SIGHTING WAVE IN BELGIUM

ROYAL BELGIAN AIR FORCE REPORT ON THE OBSERVATION OF UFOs DURING THE NIGHT OF MARCH 30-31, 1990

On November 29, 1989, a large craft with triangular shape flew over the town of Eupen. The gendarmes von Montigny and Nicol found it near the road linking Aix-la-Chapelle and Eupen. It was stationary in the air, above a field which it illuminated with three powerful beams. The beams emanated from large circular surfaces near the triangle's corners. In the center of the dark and flat understructure there was some kind of 'red gyrating beacon.' The object did not make any noise. When it began to move, the gendarmes headed towards a small road in the area over which they expected the object to fly. Instead, it made a half-turn and continued slowly in the direction of Eupen, following the road at low altitude. It was seen by different witnesses as it flew above houses and near City Hall.

The aircraft had brief radar contacts on several occasions, [but the pilots]... at no time established visual contact with the UFOs... each time the pilots were able to secure a lock on one of the targets for a few seconds, there resulted a drastic change in the behavior of the detected targets... [During the first lock-on at 0:13 hrs.] their speed changed in a minimum of time from 150 to 970 knots [170 to 1,100 mph and 275 to 1,800 km./hr.] and from 9,000 to 5,000 feet [2,700 m. to 1,500 m.], returning then to 11,000 feet [3,300 m.] in order to change again to close to ground level.

So Naval while it seems convenient to just label these craft as secret advanced aircraft, after looking closely at the above cases serious flaws with this assuption arise.

Now that I have presented you with solid evidence regarding these cases I would like to ask some questions.

How can these craft be man made if the maneuvers they displayed would kill any human pilot instantly due to massive to G-Forces?

Furthermore do you have any evidence that these craft are just secret aircraft, how they execute such amazing maneuvers and why has the government had them since atleast 1976 and keeps them classified until this day?

Lastly I was pondering the following. You seem to imply that there is a coverup for atleast 35 years regarding the deployment of advanced secret aircraft yet a UFO coverup seems impossible to you...

[edit on 10/12/08 by Fastwalker81]

reply posted on 10-12-2008 @ 06:23 AM by karl 12