Obama Birth Certificate Rears Its Head - Again

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Can anyone tell me why is it so important that the US President has to be born in the US, rather than just be a citizen? Are they more American for being born on the US soil? Do they know more about the US and can take the citizenship test perfectly like someone who is applying for citizenship?

All I see is a technicality that people are using to make sure Obama never gets into office, whether it be because of his race, him being democrat, or both.

If more than 50% of the US population wants him as President and a small group of whiners don't, why don't the whiners know what "majority rules" means in a Democracy?

[edit on 2-12-2008 by DJMessiah]

It's important because it's a requirement of the Constitution. Americas Constitution has set it apart from all of the other countries in the world. The Bill of Rights allows freedoms that are unlike any other, and our system has shown that liberty and freedom has raised the baseline of human existence.

A technicality that he misled the entire US, and the world? The guy who graduated from Haaarvard, but knows not one thing about economics, who said that America has 57 states, and slipped up and said that he was a muslim during an interview?

Kadaffi seems to think that Obama is a Muslim, and the leaders of Kenya say he was born there. His geneology shows that he's only 6% black (so not "legally" African, but instead Arab-African.

A "Democracy" is nothing more that mob rule. But in any case, America is not, and has never been, a Democracy!

Originally posted by its bologna

Originally posted by Tinkabit


If there is ANY truth to this, then for those that are intersted I can pull up some stuff about Frank Marshall and possible attempts to infiltrate the left movement in those days, let me know.......

If there is any truth to this, then Donofrio's case would definately be hogwash.

But this, I feel is way to try to turn Obama into a "natural-born communist"

Every person of note surrounding Obama was either a Socialist, Communist or America hater. Davis was a Moscow-backed Communist and a close friend of Obama's father, who mentored Obama from the age of about 9 until he moved from Hawaii. Davis moved from the US because of his Communist ties, and because he had a desire for little boys with dark skin; and, no, I'm not going to speculate of things that might have happened.

Obama was a big fan of Saul Olinsky, another America hater, and it was Olinsky-type tactics that won him the election.

Originally posted by zappafan1
[
Kadaffi seems to think that Obama is a Muslim, and the leaders of Kenya say he was born there. His geneology shows that he's only 6% black (so not "legally" African, but instead Arab-African.

I've seen this line of thinking in right wing blogs. The thing is, if you are going by what he has the "most" of it would make him white.
Sorry to break it to you....

guys come on now... who really cares? the agenda is going to be carried out as it was planned, oh what, twelve years ago... at least?!?! Hey im the youngest of my family, and at the moment i am the ONLY one that has a job. i am being forced to give so much of my time/money to my pops and bro.



Just live your days to their fullest, think positive thoughts, and although its great to bicker and banter about idiosyncroncies (spelling), it won't get a whole lot done.

reply to post by Tinkabit


Holy crap. "Your students"? You teach?

reply to post by Irish M1ck


S'just sumthin he says to make himself feel authoritative in voice.





BTW, your avatar encourages me to have a beer.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by zappafan1


Every person of note surrounding Obama was either a Socialist, Communist or America hater. Davis was a Moscow-backed Communist and a close friend of Obama's father, who mentored Obama from the age of about 9 until he moved from Hawaii. Davis moved from the US because of his Communist ties, and because he had a desire for little boys with dark skin; and, no, I'm not going to speculate of things that might have happened.

Obama was a big fan of Saul Olinsky, another America hater, and it was Olinsky-type tactics that won him the election.

Saul Alinksy, you mean? The community organizer? The guy was a liberal, but I don't know about Communist. Oh, because he had a book that's title included "Radical" we are to call him an America hater. On what basis do you think that Alinksy was an America hater? The guy champanioned the causes of the poor through the democratic process..that is not communism.

But other than reading a book of his..he would have no association with Saul, cause Saul died in the 1970s. Obama ran a brilliant campaign because of his community organizing.

The problem I have with your "guilt by association" theory is you only take into account his "negative" associations. This is a slippery slope.

I associate with people I don't agree with..namely Republicans, Christians and muslim haters. I associate with them, it doesn't make me one, nor do I agree with them.

Food for thought.





[edit on 5-12-2008 by its bologna]

[edit on 5-12-2008 by its bologna]

[edit on 5-12-2008 by its bologna]

reply to post by riggs2099


WE have yet to see how Mr. Obama performs under pressure. He talks the talk, but can he walk the walk? Doubtful. He has no history of solid national accomplishment

reply to post by HunkaHunka


BTW, your mentioning of beer has encouraged me to mix up some vodka.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by its bologna
Uh, 'a man is known by the friends he makes, and the enemies he keeps'. Barack is known for his radical friends, and his Chicago gangster ties. And he did not win simply because he was so skilled, tho he is an excellent speaker much like Adolph was, and Adolph also claimed to be a Christian. I would say that the foreign donations to his campaign didn't hurt. He's trying to figure out what to do with an unspent $30 million now. And remind me, why isn't that being looked into? I read that his mother was a relative of the Bush family. Know any about that?

Um, you do realize that you don't have to be born in America to be a natural born citizen. Do what John McCain did, some one who was born in Panama, and have your friends in congress use their power to change the rules just for you. It took an act of congress to declare a man born on a different continent a natural born citizen. Thankfully for Obama he was born in Hawaii, as told to us by the GOP. They say he's a Secret Muslim because this document they have shows he went to a Madrassa. And what else does that document say? HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII! So unless you are saying the GOP is covering for Obama, you're just a racist idiot who hates anyone with darker skin.

reply to post by GamerGal


You really need to stop comparing John McCain with the Obama situation, because you are comparing apples with oranges. You are running from thread to thread firing off your opinion, and you obviously have zero idea of the facts involved, despite others trying to educate you to them.

I have seen other posters attempt to explain to you that Panama was an American Territory, the same as many foreign American Military bases, and being born there is the same as being born in the US proper:

Adult citizens of the United States who are residents of one of the 50 states have the right to fully participate in the political system of the United States, as well as their state and local governments (with most states having restrictions on voting by persons imprisoned for felonies, some states having restrictions on voting by people convicted of felonies, and a federal constitutional prohibition on naturalized persons running for President and Vice President of the United States), are represented and protected abroad by the United States (through U.S. embassies and consulates), and are allowed to reside in the United States and certain territories without any immigration requirements.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico 8 U.S.C. § 1402, Alaska 8 U.S.C. § 1404, Hawaii 8 U.S.C. § 1405, the U.S. Virgin Islands 8 U.S.C. § 1406, and Guam 8 U.S.C. § 1407. Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date.

Panama is not listed in the above, because it is no longer a US territory as of December 31, 1999.

with the signing of the Hay-Bunau Varilla Treaty. When artificial lakes were created to assure a steady supply of water for the locks, those lakes were included within the Zone.
From 1903 to 1979 the territory was controlled by the United States of America, which had built and financed the canal's construction. From 1979 to 1999 the canal itself was under joint U.S.-Panamanian control. In 1977 the Torrijos-Carter Treaties established the neutrality of the canal.
Except during times of crisis or political tension, Panamanians could freely enter the Zone. In fact, normally anyone could walk across a street in Panama City and enter the jurisdiction. However, the 1903 treaty placed restrictions on the rights of Panamanians to buy at retail stores in the Zone. This was for the protection of Panamanian shopkeepers.
During U.S. control of the Canal Zone, the territory, apart from the canal itself, was used mainly for military purposes; however, approximately 3,000 American civilians (called "Zonians") made up the core of permanent residents. U.S. military usage ended when the zone returned to Panamanian control. It has now been integrated to the economic development of Panama, and is a tourist destination of sorts, especially for visiting cruise ships.
Notable people born in the Panama Canal Zone include the Republican 2008 presidential candidate and US Senator from Arizona John McCain, Richard Prince, Kenneth Bancroft Clark and Rod Carew.

In 1953, Congress passed legislation to specify the status of Americans born in the Canal Zone--and to exclude non-Americans born there from citizenship. Title 8, Section 1403 of the United States Code grants citizenship to those born in the Canal Zone with at least one parent who is a United States citizen. This differs from the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment which grants citizenship to all born in the United States, regardless of parental nationality.

Title 8 § 1403. Persons born in the Canal Zone or Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904.

(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.
(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

John McCain was born on August 29, 1936 well after the deadline of February 26, 1904, to two US Citizens residing in the Panama Canal Zone, while his father was an Active member of the US Military Based out of Coco Solo Naval Air Station.

Therefore, unless Kenya suddenly became a US Territory, and both of Obamas parents were US Citizens living on a US Military base while in service to this country; how can you even begin to compare the two situations as being the same? So, is that enough to end this incorrect information your constantly going from thread to thread with?

Edit to add:

Originally posted by GamerGal
It took an act of congress to declare a man born on a different continent a natural born citizen.

Oh, by the way, Panama is in North America, so how exactly is that considered to be a different Continent?


[edit on 12/6/2008 by defcon5]

reply to post by defcon5


Panama is in South America isn't it? A different continent. Second, if that's the case then why did he need an act of congress to be declared a natural born citizen? Unlike Obama, who was born in Hawaii, as the GOP has said.

reply to post by GamerGal


Ok, lets start with the basic stuff here:

Panama, officially the Republic of Panama, is the southernmost country of Central America and, in turn, North America.

Last time I checked, Central America is part of the North American Continent.

Originally posted by GamerGal
Second, if that's the case then why did he need an act of congress to be declared a natural born citizen?

He did not need an act of congress, as you can see above that act was passed in 1953, and it was not called the “McCain Citizenship Act”, so it was not specifically made for John McCain. Rather the government decided that they needed to add provisions to protect its citizens who were being born in Panama while in service to this country, and ensure their children's rights as American citizens, while at the same time keeping everyone else in panama from similarly being considered American Citizens.

Originally posted by GamerGal
Unlike Obama, who was born in Hawaii, as the GOP has said.

The problem with the Obama situation is that there is no proof that he was born in Hawaii, because of a odd loophole in old Hawaiian law. The “Certificate of Live Birth” is a short form document which is not the same thing as a “Birth Certificate”, and was available to citizens born outside the US and its territories in Hawaii until the law was changed:

"Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence," the document said. "The only way to know where Senator Obama was actually born is to view Senator Obama's original birth certificate from 1961 that shows the name of the hospital and the name and signature of the doctor that delivered him."

This is why most believe that is is refusing to turn over the Long Form actual “Birth Certificate”, since he knows that it does not include a Hospital, or US Doctor who signed off on his birth:

The suit alleges that while records exist of a "registry of birth" for Obama in Hawaii (filed four days after his claimed birthday), no records exist of his mother's stay in any Hawaii hospital, suggesting she may have given birth elsewhere and filed the registration shortly thereafter on American soil.

"Obama's grandmother on his father's side, half brother and half sister claim Obama was born in Kenya," the suit states. "Reports reflect Obama's mother went to Kenya during her pregnancy; however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii at her late stage of pregnancy, which apparently was a normal restriction to avoid births during a flight. Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew to Hawaii and registered Obama's birth."

To make matters even worse, even if we do find out that he was Born in Hawaii, he may have given up his US Citizenship due to Expatriation:

Even if Obama produced authenticated proof of his birth in Hawaii, however, the suit claims that the U.S. Nationality Act of 1940 provided that minors lose their American citizenship when their parents expatriate. Since Obama's mother married an Indonesian citizen and moved to Indonesia, the suit claims, she forfeited both her and Barack's American citizenship.

These are all serious legal issues, and carry serious legal ramification for this country if not address appropriately. You absolutely need to stop the racist remarks against those trying to safeguard the office of the Presidency and the Constitution of the United States.

reply to post by defcon5


Except they don't care. They just hate black people. They even admit he's from Hawaii, used a document that proved it in a different attack. They just hate Obama, why they keep attacking him. One attack proves he's American born because the document they use says he was born there. But then they turn around and say he wasn't after that attack didn't work. They hate Obama, they hate black people, they don't care. Just like they attacked Ron Paul. They TRIED to smear him over and over again. In the end dozens of attacks later they were so confused in one sentence Paul was a KKK Grand Wizard and in the next he's the grandson of a black person. They hate, and will attack any way they can.

OK, this has gone on long enough, everyone that thinks Obama was not born int the United States needs to look far and wide and post the following:

Somebody on this thread needs to post the Official Birth Certificate that proves he was born somewhere else other than the United States.

I double dog dare you!

I will even triple dog dare you!

If you can't produce that, than your whole argument and thread is not relevant to reality!

Produce it and I will be on your side!



[edit on 12/6/08 by mel1962]

Obama has an official birth certificate via the state of Hawaii and there are two newspaper clippings announcing his birth and the source of the newspaper clippings are the Hawaiian Health Bureau Statistics and not a notice put in by a private citizen.

Obama born in USA!

Hell, if some one provides a birth certificate for Obama in Kenya I'll well, reward them. I don't have much money but hell to shut these people up it'd be worth emptying my bank account.

reply to post by GamerGal



Exactly who is “They”?
I personally did not like either choice in this election, so I am obviously not “They”, yet I still question his validity of being allowed to hold office.
I have yet to see anyone admit that Obama is in fact a US Citizen. His true Citizneship is yet to be seen hence the fact that it is currently in the US Supreme Court.

reply to post by defcon5


Where's the beef?????????

Where's the official Indonesian document that proves Obama's mother gave up her citizenship and her son's?????

Hearsay and the fact she moved to Indonesia proves nothing, so I double dog dare you to produce the beef!!!!!