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OK, dammit: Forgive Satan?

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posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 04:46 AM
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I find it hard to believe that not ONE ATSer responded to this when I posted it days ago! I have watched Pastors blanch, Priests flounder and all manner of religious folk become tonguetied when faced with these two words.

The basis for this is Michael Moorcock's, "The War Hound and The World's Pain", wherein he posits a most interesting question: What if Satan not only realizes he is wrong, but wants to get back into Heaven?

Evil is so effortless that Satan not only gets bored, but desires what he had lost: Heaven.

Without getting into the nuances of the book (which involves Satan choosing a mortal to find the Holy Grail as God will not parley with him otherwise and winds up with The Devil Himself running the world for a thousand years through an agreement with God), this question has, upon my asking, caused great upheaval, even causing a friend of mine to be kicked out of a Christian cult he was fairly immersed in.

I find it to be a most intriguing question: Could/Should Satan be forgiven, can you and WTF, if anything, would happen to your immortal soul if ya chose to?

C/mon, guys!!




posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:20 AM
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I would ask who of us is arrogant enough to think that they are so without fault that "forgiveness" is an option. Who are we to forgive? How can we condemn anyone else for their "transgressions"? No one is better or worse than anyone else. We are only learning different lessons, from our personal perspective.

Life is an educational journey, over and over and over until you finally learn.

There is light because there is darkness. There is hot because there is cold. One thing cannot exist without its polar opposite - from where we sit anyway. When you see the big picture though, you see that there is no difference between good and evil. There is nothing to forgive. We would be wiser to look at others with compassion.

If you can't understand the whys and wherefores of any given situation, perhaps you have no experience with that yet. Perhaps you would be talking out of turn, so to speak, when you haven't yet walked that mile in those moccasins. Perhaps it would be best to trust that others do the best they can with their situations, just as you do with yours.

Don't assume things are as they seem. Perspective/compassion is everything.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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Lol I like your style.

Guess it boils down to compassion. The ultimate form of compassion. To truly understand his pain.

Now I'm no great studier of religious history, or doctrine. But I have actually had this thought cross my mind at the height of my church-going days.

A better question would be, could you forgive Satan despite the fact that he may not give a flying flamingo whether or not you did? Could you extend your compassion and try to understand and forgive him, because this is the very essence of the christian faith as I understand it... To not judge others.

I think it's John 8:7


So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.


Do I think I am personally able to forgive Satan? For the sake of the arguement, we'll go with the literal biblical viewpoint of the world and the way it works as my standpoint. (As this is not my standpoint).

If Satan was seeking my forgiveness, I would do my best to try and extend my forgiveness to him. However, that said, I prefer to think of it as compassion.

What would happen to my immortal soul? Well from the biblical view, nothing bad. I have been instructed to not judge, as it is not my place. That is exclusively the big man upstairs field of expertise.

***Please note that this post is a For The Sake Of The Discussion and is not a true reflection of my personal metaphysical philosophies - no offence intended***



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:30 AM
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Who of us can be sure we would not have challenged God in the way Satan is said to have, in that situation?

I'm a stubborn bitch who comes from a long line of stubborn bitches, some of them pretty evil people. So I can't judge.

Besides, the world is a story we are living in.
How boring would a story be with no bad guy in it?

The question I'm more interested in is:
"can you look at the actions of the
God of the O.T. and believe he is not a worse devil than
Satan ever was?

Perhaps we're on the wrong side here.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:32 AM
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We would have to forgive everyone, including Satan. Because if we do not fogive others their sins and transgressions, how can we expect Jesus to intercede on our behalf and ask God to forgive us our sins and transgressions. At least that's how I see it. Besides, the bible also tells us not to judge others, lest we be judged ourselves. And the bible also tells us that the yardstick by which we judge others will be the yardstick that God himself will judge us by later when it is our turn to be judged.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by leaderof theTFHbrigade
 


Your thread brings a light to the darkness. I am sure that, I am the only human in history to be "close" with Satan. It does say in the bible that God told Adam and Eve not to eat from tree. What the bible does not explain is that God did not tell or not, to Satan about the "rules" of being a Higher Angel. The bible also does not explain that God "talked" with the first created Higher Angels.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:58 AM
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First of all, i'm a non-believer, but for the sake of debate:

I think this is another of the inconsistencies in the christian faith.

If that god is a loving and forgiving god, why doesn't he forgive satan?

I assume we'd have to be told if he did?

Another fair question, to me, is why doesn't he forgive mankind for original sin? Why are we supposed to be paying for that so many generations later?

It seems to me that the good behaviour demanded of humans exceeds that demanded of their god.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:39 AM
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I think there is one very important factor that the posters are not taking into account when they are suggesting Satan should be forgiven. Forgiveness requires ones ability to understand and feel remorse for the offense he/she has committed to the offended party and ASKING for forgiveness. I don't know God personally but I'm willing to bet that if Satan did come before Him with remorse and asked for forgiveness it will be granted.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:33 AM
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Satan is only a concept that describes all of our capacity to do evil. We also share a Christ consciousness. To forgive is divine. Satan is part of our spirit. Living life without compassion is certain death. The stress you put yourself through breaks down your living body. The spirit is real. It connects us. Our action, inaction, interaction dictates reality. What we think about, we attract to ourselves. So, you know that evil is real. You know that man creates his reality. Why are we not seeing the big picture?



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by berenike
 



God did forgive the people of sin, that was why Jesus died on the cross. However in order for God to forgive the original sin he would have to wipe out humanity completely and start over. Which, from what I gather from Revelations is what he plans on doing. That is why there will be heaven on earth (sorry for quoting a stupid song) once the final judgement has been read. There will be no hunger, pain or sin once Revelations has been played out.

As far as forgiving Satan.

God loves Satan that is why he has allowed him to continue to exist. It states in the Bible that only those who want to be forgiven can. If one was truly repentent to their very soul for all the sins they have commited and asks God for forgiveness then that person would be forgiven. Satan covets Gods place and wants to be his equal. If he realizes his sin and is truly sorry for what he has done then yes, he can be forgiven.

But that is not his way. He doesn't want to be forgiven, he wants to discredit God. By turning people away from God he thinks he is making his own heaven, thereby giving him the false pretense that he is equal to God and is not in need of forgiveness.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:01 AM
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If Satan repents... he should be forgiven. Everyone deserves a second chance ya?



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by leaderof theTFHbrigade
 



I think Satan should be forgiven...... It's been an eternity

All can seek forgiveness through god....so why not 'the man of sin'?



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:06 AM
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The scenario supposes that time is a straight line and our perception of it is linear. In other words, here and now, we are on the leading edge of existence with a future that has not yet occured. But the Christian Bible clearly contradicts this because for any prophesy to be real, there must be a future that has already happened that can then be seen and reported back to the present.

So in reply, no. Satan will not repent because he didn't...

...



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by Resinveins
If Satan repents... he should be forgiven. Everyone deserves a second chance ya?


Read my post, I think my opinion is a pretty good theory that supports your comment and also shows why he will not be forgiven.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
God did forgive the people of sin, that was why Jesus died on the cross. However in order for God to forgive the original sin he would have to wipe out humanity completely and start over. Which, from what I gather from Revelations is what he plans on doing.


Ah, now the O.T. command to take your disobedient children to the gates of the city and stone them to death makes sense.

We're just being instructed to follow the example of God Himself who is going to destroy all his children.


Mr Satan, I'm sorry I believed the Bible-libel.
I see now who the true devil is.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:15 AM
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What a wacky way story they teach little kids in Sunday school. Isn't it funny? When I was young, we had to go to church. They taught us that "version" too. lol When we came home I was there asking my parents 'what about this' and 'what about that'. They got so fed up that they said I had to stop questioning everything or I wouldn't be allowed to go anymore.


So I went to other churches. I sampled the Mormons, the Jews... any old bus that came along, there I was, jumping on it to see what they had to say. You know what? It was all tosh. It all sounded just like that. Totally disjointed and absurd.

Four years ago, I found the Creator. Not God. Not a god. The One Who Owns. I'll tell you what, God (Yahweh) and Satan (Lucifer) can have their little tiff. Taking sides is tantamount to the importance of who wins the Superbowl, of who wins the Miss Universe Pageant, of who wins anything It's all the same. It's not what matters.

And it really is all the same. Can you really not see it yet?

Please see what I wrote above in my previous post.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by jd140
God did forgive the people of sin, that was why Jesus died on the cross. However in order for God to forgive the original sin he would have to wipe out humanity completely and start over. Which, from what I gather from Revelations is what he plans on doing.


Ah, now the O.T. command to take your disobedient children to the gates of the city and stone them to death makes sense.

We're just being instructed to follow the example of God Himself who is going to destroy all his children.


Mr Satan, I'm sorry I believed the Bible-libel.
I see now who the true devil is.


Guess I wasn't clear. He isn't going to destroy anyone. What I meant to say was at the end of Revelations everyone will be judged. Those who have not asked for forgiveness will end up in the lake of fire forever, not destroyed. Those who have asked for forgiveness will live a pure, sin free world. By ridding the world of all sin he has in essence started over.

Atleast for a thousand years anyways.

I am going by the Bible, my posts are what I believe is being represented in the Bible. They do not reflect my religous beliefs. The post was about Satan and God, so I have given my opinion based on the book pertaining to the subject.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
The post was about Satan and God, so I have given my opinion based on the book pertaining to the subject.


Me too.

There are some great stories in that book.

I hope the victims of the many genocides committed while following God's orders appreciated the love, justice and mercy of Jehovah.

How many of them found it in their hearts to forgive Him, I wonder?



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


Thank you for your very thoughtful answer to my questions.

If my understanding is correct, god will only forgive those who repent but humans are encouraged to forgive sinners whether they repent or not?

On that assumption, I don't see that anyone should have a problem if they forgave satan.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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The idea of a permanent hell became more popular after St. Augustine, and wasn't thought of before amongst the Jewish faith, or the Christian. I myself believe that all people, angels, demons, everyone and everything, will evolve, and that currently, there may be a purpose for dualism. This is very long journey, and God has great patience. Responding with love and compassion is always the right thing to do.




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