Are We Done For?

After the fall of the Soviet Union I felt a great sense of relief.

I thought, "Finally we enter the millenium of peace. The rush to become a type one civilization begins. We are home free. Thankyou Jesus. Thankyou Ronald Reagan. Thankyou Edward Teller. Thankyou Dr. Strangelove. You all made this possible. Me, stupid me, would have gone with negotiation, trade, student exchanges, fun times for all and just open faced good heartedness. But hey psychopathic lunacy won the day."

I thought there were no impediments to peace now. The evil empire had imploded and there were no other evil empires left. The country of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt and Kennedy was certainly not one of those.

Then along came the New World Order, a new set of cretins, George Herbert Walker Bush, Berzhesinski, the gaggle of dual Israeli/American citizens who dominated American foreign policy, wag the dog Israel, the duncecap with the big Dubya on it, shoot'em in the face Cheney, Haliburton, American aggression in the middle east, American crypto-aggression in central Europe.

All leading up to the righteous displeasure of Vladimir Putin and it's slowly unfolding consequences.

The doomsday clock has certainly been advanced during the Bush/Clinton era. It must be very clear to the Russians that the US is no friend of theirs. It must be very clear that the Americans were manouvering into a position that would enable them to deliver a sucker nuclear punch to the Russians. I don't know about you, but I'm shaking in my boots.

This financial collapse thing is usually the prelude to the war thing. How long do we have? Does anybody else think the way I do?

Are we done for?



[edit on 1-12-2008 by ipsedixit]

awww! nah.. WE're not done for. Some of us may be. Who knows!! Life is like that and it won't change. Kind of a luck of the draw. One day your here and the next your gone (how's that for a myriad of cliches. )

Honestly, at this point I am more worried about those being harrassed on a daily basis by the Zionist group than I am for us here in America. They don't deserve it. We as a country do deserve it... I know that some of us oppose atrocities, but since we ARE a part of this country, we have to accept the fate of it according to its works. Not a positive thought maybe, but in the end, it is.. if you are one of the countries being harrassed by us, that is.

The Zionists are in the "wag the dog" category. They are just very very unrealistic people in every way but one. The one thing they have right is that "might is right", at least here on earth. But I think they are something of a "red herring" when we discuss world affairs. The reality is that they are important only insofar as the US regards middle east oil as being important. I think the American ideological commitment to the state of Israel is a complete fraud. It is just pragmatic lip service.

What really concerns me is that modern American foreign policy has foolishly abandoned one important time tested truism of world diplomacy and that is the importance of buffer states in Europe. The Bush administration has attempted to belly right up to the Russians in central Europe. That is rude. It is a violation of personal space. It is the sort of thing that gets you punched out in a bar.

But even worse, it sends a message, an unfriendly message. I'm scared, . . . for all of us. I don't want a reply to that message. I want to go back to minding my own business.

The Bush administration is gambling with everybody's lives. For what? Ensuring the freedom of central Europe? Central Europe in the old way of doing things served as a canary in the coal mine. I'd rather go back to that situation. The Russians like almost everyone in the world are skittish about powerful neighbors on the doorstep. Unlike most everybody else, they can do something about it.

For me it is very worrying. I would like to see Obama go out of his way to reassure the Russians. Unfortunately there are other dog waggers in his camp, right Zbig?

moving language. your post reads like a John Saul novel. I don't think we are done for. I think the coming year will be very tough, the hardest many of us will have ever endured up to that point, with a slow recovery in the coming years. I don't know about you, but i believe 99% of all politicians are corrupt, i am not an "Obama fan" by any means, but aside from making some of my favorite toys illegeal (assult weapons) him choosing the Clintons for the roles they will play soon gave me a little hope. Do i fully support the Clintons? No. Do I admire them? Not really, but i can tell you this: Clintons stint in the white house was the most financially comfortable times of my entire life. I'm looking forward to SOME of the change coming for us. "out with the old boss, meet the new boss" is pretty dead on, but hey, I'll take this coming administration over the BUSH machine any day. I don't think we are doomed, we survived the last 8 years, and that was worse than what will come in the next 4 IMHO.
by the way, good post, i don't agree with all of it, but i like your style!
by the way, edit to add:
i do agree with you about the doomsday clock being sped up, i don't see how one could deny that when you factor in all the variables, i don't think we are doomed yet, but it sure wouldn't take too much more to break the camels back. We are in a very strange situation where new age technology and thinking is in a peverse relationship with older religious beliefs, dewy eyed suicide bombers looking forward to 72 virgins in paradise alongside some of the most dangerous technology for the wrong hands (are there any RIGHT hands?) we are sitting on a powder keg but i just don't think it will blow up YET.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by Enigma Publius]

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
moving language. your post reads like a John Saul novel.

Thanks for the praise. I try to write as well as I can, but occasionally have to remind myself that substance trumps style. Style can be an evil. I hate the idea of scoring cheap points with a gift for style.

I don't think we are done for. I think the coming year will be very tough, the hardest many of us will have ever endured up to that point, with a slow recovery in the coming years. . . . Do i fully support the Clintons? No. Do I admire them? Not really, but i can tell you this: Clintons stint in the white house was the most financially comfortable times of my entire life.

I'm with you here. I like the conjunction of tough times with the Clintons, particularly Bill, but I'm happy to have Hillary in a mix like that. There are definitley two sides to them, but I can't think of anybody I'd rather have helping me solve a tough problem than Bill Clinton.

i do agree with you about the doomsday clock being sped up . . . we are sitting on a powder keg but i just don't think it will blow up YET.

Riling the Russians is just uncalled for. We need to cool our jets in Europe, remember the value of buffer states and get back to more of a live and let live way of doing things. We need to get the ideologues out of the picture. I hope that's what comes out of an Obama administration.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by ipsedixit


While I agree somewhat w/ what you say about Russia, please don't underestimate the Zionists. It may be partially the oil that drives those in Washington to side with them, but all one has to do is a little research to realize that it isn't the oil that is keeping them alone. Their is HUGE $$ in the zionist camp and huge #'s (consider that one evangelical lobby group contains over 1,000,000 ppl supporting it and they all support the zionist group). It is becoming more evident that they could have been the ones to push (meaning pushed for catalystic events leading up to) for 9/11 to gain the support of the American population (realizing they already sunk their talons into the Washington DC psychos).

Having said that, very much of what we are going through with Russia HAS to do w/ the Zionist camp. They, Russia, are supporters of Iran (and SHOULD be considering).

So, basically it all DOES come back to this group. I am not an expert, but it doesn't take much research to see who exactly is planting and watering these seeds of strife btw Russia and America





[edit on 1-12-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma

As long as the oil oligarchs and the military industrial complex have the power they do in the United States, the Zionists have nothing to worry about. Israel with it's status as the largest unsinkable aircraft carrier in the middle east is a big money maker for the oil and ammo block.

The ball is in Obama's court. Can he make inroads into a new energy economy? If he can, it will make American support less of an object of Zionist interest. They will turn their attention to other parties who still need middle eastern oil, the Chinese perhaps. It's time for somebody else to carry the can for Israel. America has done it's bit and can still be a friend but in a more sophisticated way, hopefully.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Hmmm... I am w/ you on hoping that Obama takes the upper hand in all of this for the sake of the American ppl, but if I recall correctly, he has already stated his support for the state of Israel.

A bit of education here: the state of Israel is NOT to be confused with those who practice Judaism as it is dictated by the sacred laws handed down by their G-d. Those who practice Judaism (including the Rabbi.s) are against the Zionists and the "state of Israel." The state of Israel is led and pushed for (the Holy Land) by the Zionist camp; therefore if Obama is supporting the state of Israel, most likely we will not see much of an end w/out more blood shed over this whole ordeal.

Not arguing w/ you for the sake of it, but this, from the research I have done, is the state we are in and are facing.... even under the leadership of Obama.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Obama is just a puppet, Clintons have dug their talons into him and the NWO is in full control of what happens next. I tell myself there is a slim chance that the world will become a better place to live in but just don't see it happening. Step one would be to get rid of 90% of the people in congress who have no intention of doing anything right.

reply to post by justamomma

Point taken. You are better informed on Israeli matters than many in these forums.

There is a broad spectrum of political debate in Israel, including anti-Zionist Jews who battle against the state of Israel from within. As a person of Irish descent, I have a warm spot in my heart for those Jews. I'm not saying I would march with them, but it shows one something about humanity. There are hard headed contrarians in every ethnic group. It's human nature.

In 1982 I was in college majoring on photography when I became a Christian. I minded my own business, but as a new Christian I was excited about my newfound faith and I carried a bible with me everywhere. Sometimes this would spark conversations; people would ask me questions, I would respond. Sometimes I had what was very much like an impromptu bible class in the lobby of the arts building at school.

During these days there was a woman who used to walk back and forth across the campus. I saw her from time to time and I assumed she was going to or from classes like everyone else. She was dressed in a somewhat unusual manner, like a foreigner. I thought she might be Arabic, but it was an eclectic community, and I thought nothing of it.

One day I noticed she was talking to herself as she walked. I could not make out what she was saying. I added this info to my databanks and went about my life.

But I started to notice that she seemed to be "around" more and more; sometimes she was reading a book across the lobby when I was reading my bible. One day she was walking across campus about ten paces behind me. I Knew it was her because I looked over my shoulder. And this time I heard what she was saying under her breath:

"Vile Christian heathen! Allah will KILL you and all Americans! We will claim this country for Allah!"

This was in 1982.

I don't think Bush's policies have done much to solve the problem, and in many ways he has certainly exacerbated the situation. However, I personally experienced maniacal Islam firsthand, before it had taken over much of the world. In fact, this was my first exposure to Islam. And BTW I was in a sleepy town in upstate New York. This evil would have eventually spread out like a virus from its starting point - and this would have happened sooner or later, with or without Bush's help.

I also don't think there is much Obama, or any other world leader, can do at this point. It is too late, and has gone too far to stop it. How can we stop them from hating us? By being nice to them? I was personally hated for no other reason than that I was a nice young lady with a bible.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by OuttaHere]

reply to post by jitombe

I agree very much with what you are saying but I don't think there is much hope for a "clean slate" being produced to write the next chapter in the US without a massive economic and social upheaval, and I don't want such an upheaval, I think we are going to have to do the best we can with what's inplace. The Clintons are very tricky people. They are experts at making what can pass for a tolerable lemonade out of lemons.

I don't think Bill Clinton has forgotten where he came from. W.H Auden, the British poet put it best, "Love your crooked neighbor with your crooked heart."


[edit on 1-12-2008 by ipsedixit]

Scary times it is...

With everything that is going on on the world today, it is easy to sit back, look around, and tremble a bit. With due reason..

i dont think i have to list the reasons why many of us are fearing the worst. But lets not lose our sanity just yet. I have no doubt in my furry mind, that we will end up in another war. And it will be started bacause of yet another attack on U.S soil. (If you dont think thats possible, then please send some of your happy thouughts my way.) I'm not stating some sort of conspiracy, just noting that those who want to harm us, have very smart, and rather rich leaders.

We are allready at war in 2 countries, and the beginning phases of a 3rd(Pakistan). How long till These countrie's allies decide enough is enough???

Are we done for? No, BUT, we will take one helluva loss.

Originally posted by OuttaHere
"Vile Christian heathen! Allah will KILL you and all Americans! We will claim this country for Allah!" . . .

I also don't think there is much Obama, or any other world leader, can do at this point. It is too late, and has gone too far to stop it. How can we stop them from hating us? By being nice to them? I was personally hated for no other reason than that I was a nice young lady with a bible.

I'm very much with you on this. Anyone in doubt of what you are saying simply has to pick up a copy of the Koran and read it for themselves. Islam has been anti Jewish and anti-infidel from it's inception.

The Koran is a very troubling book because it is as much, or perhaps even more of a political document than a religious document. It is full of fire and brimstone and intolerance as well as some wisdom. I got the impression from the first fifty or so pages of it that Islam came about because of pressure that Arab communities were feeling from the Jews in the 7th century. Muhammed was "inspired" to rectify the situation.

A lot of what is in the Koran is about consolidating and unifying the Arab community against an outside threat, the Jews. Unfortunately, in my view, this book, like many other religious texts is given an importance and significance beyond what it's own merits deserve.

That could be said of almost all religious texts. In fact, most Islamic people that I have met are tolerant pragmatists. They want to live and let live and are as good as anybody I have met. In our time Islam is under a great strain. Fanatics are in the ascendant. Moorish Spain, a wonderful tolerant Islamic state, was destroyed by the Taliban of it's time.

It's a problem. It's our problem. It's a problem for the Islamic world too. Everyone sane, both here and there is working on it.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by ipsedixit]

Apologies. Double post.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by marcsnothere
I have no doubt in my furry mind, that we will end up in another war. And it will be started bacause of yet another attack on U.S soil.

Who do you think will attack the US this time? Maybe it will be Venezuela.

Have you ever seen a pipsqueak punch the toughest guy on the block in the nose? I haven't.

I think there are legitimate fears for the future, but I would be suspicious if another attack on America came from some country whose oil America wants.

You mean we'e never been hit before????????

reply to post by marcsnothere

I know that America has been hit before. In fact I have no doubt that America is hit every day in innumerable ways by innumerable interests, many of them living right in the USA.

Every nation has its parasites and diseases, but if you mean has America been hit by another nation using military means, I think that the last overt military attack on America that I am aware of took place in the sixties. Israel attacked the US spy ship USS Liberty in the Mediterranean Sea.

There was an incident with a spyplane involving China more recently, but I'm not sure that would count as an attack.

I think that the 9/11 attack was a home grown false flag terrorism operation, so I wouldn't regard that as an attack on America. There have been numerous bombings related to America's roll in the middle east which originated outside the country, but I don't think that any of these groups are foolish enough to attack America on it's home soil, especially after witnessing the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.

No country, like Venezuela, for instance, would be foolish enough to initiate an attack on America and risk the kind of mauling America has dished out to Iraq. No-one running another country would do anything like another 9/11. Only a group of renegades run by American interests would attack America now.

9/11 has shown that you can attack America with impunity if you are American. The American Congress and judiciary have been shown to be helpless in aprehending and imprisoning home grown state sponsored terrorists. Basically, Americans are defenseless against their own government.

Too many Americans are too willing to buy the absurdity that tiny foreign countries are gearing up to attack America. It's like the old cartoon animation of the elephant jumping up onto a chair and shrieking when a mouse enters the room. One would laugh if so many innocent people had not already lost their lives as a result of that insane American phobia.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by justamomma

 

There is a broad spectrum of political debate in Israel, including anti-Zionist Jews who battle against the state of Israel from within. As a person of Irish descent, I have a warm spot in my heart for those Jews. I'm not saying I would march with them, but it shows one something about humanity. There are hard headed contrarians in every ethnic group. It's human nature.

You pretty much wrote out what I see as well. I feel GREAT fondness toward these Jews who are taking a hard stance against the wrongs of the Zionist group who ultimately are the ones who have and are forcing this state of Israel on the world.

It is much how I feel toward Russia (although, on a much lesser scale considering they are not quite as heroic as those brave Jews standing against the state of Israel) and their support for Iran against the state of Israel and its parent, America. I do not fear Russia. I do not fear what they can do to us.

I love the people in this country and I understand that ignorance has become less of a choice and more of a prison of sorts (not an excuse, mind you); but that doesn't negate the fact that horrible things are being done in the name of this country and thus what we sew as a country will be what we reap...

While I might not, as a single mother of two boys, be willing to march against those in the Zionist group and all their supporters, I sure as hell am trying to make sure that there is more of a voice for the truth about what is going on that is causing all this turmoil in the world.

North Korea and China are where we could end up REALLY taking the hit from, I am sad but inclined to say. I am actually quite shocked, seeing the obvious distaste China has for us that we are still doing business with them.

The main problem Americans face stems from when we violated our founding fathers idea of interaction with the world. When we moved beyond trade and started dabbling in alliances, we were pretty much asking to be put in this position.

Great thread btw! I am going back to read all the responses that have been posted since this one.

reply to post by OuttaHere


Unfortunately, we see this attitude from the Christian camp as well; particularly from those in the evangelical movement.

It must be understood that a lot of the hatred is stemming from the fact that America is backing the state of Israel. We are JUST NOW (those who understand the situation) seeing the negative effects of this alliance, those in the Middle East have been not only seeing it, but feeling it in ways that we can't even understand or relate to.

I think, having the hearts that some of us have, if we could experience some time over there and see first hand what is going on, we might walk away with our perspectives having gone through an overhaul.

The Jews who adhere strictly to Judaism and are opposed to the state of Israel take that stance because there is a whole culture that is being snuffed out in "the holy land" in the name of Israel. They, those Jews of good faith, will admit that they have lived for centuries in relative peace along side their fellow semitic neighbors despite religion.

But we, here in America, hear quite a different story. We aren't being given the truth which is sad. It is relatively easy to unravel and understand and once you do so, you can see as clear as day where the hate is coming from.

The Islam religion does have much violence in their sacred books as does the Judaism's sacred texts, and of course, the Bible's New Testament. Every single one of these religions w/in their own understanding of their faith knows and understands that the violence is not a green card to go harm another person who believes differently. Yet these violent parts in each of the texts are being used against us to cause strife and wedges between the followers of each of the religions.

While that lady may have been spewing unnecessary hatred toward your beliefs, she probably has seen the same type of hatred to her way of life and beliefs. That may have been a great learning opportunity for you had you gone and gently spoken to her about why she felt such hatred toward those who practice your faith. One small act of trying to understand anothers perspective could have led into a chain reaction toward more tolerance in this world.

We fear most what we don't understand. Whenever I find myself fearing something or someone, I make it a point to face that fear and do everything in my power to understand whatever it is that is causing fear in me.

anyway, not trying to preach... REally the point is, there are too many walls going up and not enough talking with us "normal citizens" in these countries. We are buying into the hate and fear speeches when if you look beyond it, you see there are many good souls in each of the groups who are trying to educate the rest of us in the knowledge of truth and understanding; sometimes at the risk of their reputation, comforts, and even their own lives.



[edit on 2-12-2008 by justamomma]