The Greatest Minds of ATS! A Tribute.

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posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by nyloncylon
 


This is not a one liner, edit in fact a one paragrapher


This is not the place for historical discussions on causal effect my friend, But Historical proof of what ATS has stated through our members before others that transpired to be real. Post a thread with the chart asking the same question and I am sure you will have many replies, mine included, google first and add the following: OPEC cartel foundation and time of creation, Scarcity, The Arab Israeli conflict & timeframes esp Iran revolution and shah etc, Cold War
and make sure to indeed as you rightly point out to include the Gold situation & History!

Kind regards,

Elf.

[edit on 2-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]




posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Battleline
I read all the posts and you are all very smart it would seem,at least as fare as you all are concerened,but where are the solutions?

What good is knowing whats going to happen if you just become a part of it and have no idea what to do once it happens?


Solutions?

The only solution to this whole mess boils down to eliminating the toxic debt and culling the herd of insolvent businesses, and refusing to allow it to happen again. Until that point, we're going to keep going through artificial bubble after artificial bubble, each one worse than the last.

* Force the crap that's currently off balance sheet back on balance sheet. No more hiding toxic junk and using accounting tricks to "Weekend at Bernie's" a dead company.
* If a debt cannot be collected - for example, a $500k mortgage on a foreclosed home now valued at $300k - then the debt needs to be written off and the loss taken.
* If a company is insolvent, they must be allowed to fail so that stronger, more stable companies can take their place.
* Allow the derivatives to play out on failed companies and investment vehicles. Ask yourself - why do we keep propping up AIG? Derivatives. Paulson's BFF Jill (aka Goldman Sachs) would have imploded had AIG failed due to their gambling in derivatives. If these companies want to play the game, they can face the consequences. You don't get a bailout if you bet your house in Vegas, do you?
* Any derivatives trading from here forward must be done through approved clearinghouses. Any derivatives trading outside said clearinghouses are not considered legal contracts and any monies owed from such are not collectible.
* Mandatory leverage limits on any financial institution. 10:1. 12:1. I don't care, but there must be a reasonable leverage limit required. No more of this 20:1 or 50:1 or more.

Basically everyone's gotta suck it up and take their medicine. Stop the bailouts. It wouldn't be fun, but it'd be over fairly quickly - much like ripping off a band-aid vs. slowly inching it off bit by bit. Get it over with now and wear elbow pads in the future.

There is no easy solution to any of this. No matter what happens the average citizen in basically every country in the world will suffer; we just have to decide if we want to suffer in the short term or let it drag on and on and on.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


Or he can try searching ATS for the keyword "petrodollar"
and find threads talking about the subject:

Two examples:

Petrodollar Warfare

and

Conditions Are Ripe for Another Great Depression (written by me in July of 2004)

Since we're having a pissing contest about who-called-what first I'll add this:



I believe that there is an end-game in play.

... there is going to be a major debt crisis.

With the cost of living going up, and interest rates preventing borrowing, cash strapped consumers cease to buy big ticket items. As the crisis deepens there will be massive defaults and bankruptcies leading to a banking crisis.

...

Nothing will be solved until we hit the wall (peak oil, climate change, collapse of economic system etc.).

The only thing to do is prepare yourself mentally for the outcome. Move beyond fear and towards acceptance/preparation.

Right now the economy is a revved up sports car heading for a brick wall, and the passengers are arguing about which radio station to listen to.

Heads up! There's trouble ahead. Get out of DEBT as FAST as you can!


That was July 2004.

I'd also like to point out these words from March of this year:


No matter how liquid your assets are if you are over leveraged you will go bankrupt when the tide turns negative. Derivatives traders are about to learn that lesson all over again.
...

The next step will be the FED buying up all the bad loans in order to "save" us.

The end effect will be a good chunk of the nation's real estate wealth ending up in the hands of the cartel. Economic serfdom has such a nice ring to it doesn't it?
...

When the central bank cartel wants to cause (yes I said cause) a recession, they tighten credit. Refusing to lend to each other or to "mom and pop" shops has a clear consequence known to all. Whatever pathetic excuse they use to justify the contraction of lending activity, I submit "they" know full well what they are doing.


I wonder where the original poster of that thread is now?

As someone else pointed out, anybody doing their homework could see this coming. I think we should not so much congratulate ourselves as wonder why so many people are blind to it all.

Those who didn't see it coming (or worse made fun of those who did) have some serious self reflection to do IMHO.

.

[edit on 12/2/2008 by Gools]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by dreamingtree
I'm sorry, but ANYONE who wanted to do their research could have seen this coming. ANYONE. You make it sound like the economy only goes into recession once every 100 years. We were in recession in 2001, the 80's/early 90's, part of the 70's and so on. Go look at graphs of our economy and how it works. You will see a trend. Sure maybe recession now is much worse than it was in 2001, but still you guys make it sound like this should not be happening.


Honest to God mate.. that is the point of this thread.

If some bloggers, few of which are professional market gurus can call an economic recession with such clarity..

Do you really think the Federal Government didn't see this coming?

All the while they told us... LIED TO US on TV, to our faces, evreything is fine. Pay no attention to the numbers on the markets. Manipulation. Misunderstandings. "Corrections" "Down turns" "Quantitative Easing" (my new favorite one)

So now they tell us, yes we are in a recession.

It's kinda bad.

When the Gov says things are Great, and they are terrible. When they say things are bad, by God they MUST be catastrophic!

We are in the midst, or perhaps just the beginning of the single worst economic episode since the 1920's -40's.

I am not advocating the members on ATS to be professional Financial planners, and I frown on ANY thread where members ask other members for financial guidance .. but the underlying problems are so complex, yet so apparent, this economy reads like a book.

PS MischeviousElf

Tried to fit as many in as I could, but I am glad people are posting their quotes as well. Simply amazing.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Battleline
I read all the posts and you are all very smart it would seem,at least as fare as you all are concerened,but where are the solutions?


Chop off the Fed that instigated and oversaw the whole thing.

They didn't contribute to ATS but should get honorary mention for their foresight:



Our economy is healthy and vigorous, and growing faster than other major industrialized nations.

President Bush, State of the Union address, January 31, 2006.



The foundation of our economy is solid, and it's strong.

President Bush, August 18, 2006.



As a participant in financial markets for more than 30 years, I say with confidence that over the last couple of years, the world economy has been stronger than I have ever seen it.

Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, before the Confederation of British Industry Annual Conference, November 28, 2006



The U.S. economy is fundamentally strong, diverse and resilient...

Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, U.S. Chamber of Commerce, January 22, 2008



Much necessary economic and financial adjustment has already taken place, and monetary and fiscal policies are in train [sic] that should support a return to growth in the second half of this year and next year.

Ben Bernanke, before the Joint Economic Committee, U.S. Congress, April 2, 2008.


Ex_Mis|Tech - Michael Ruppert (Crossing the Rubicon) warned Derivatives Bubble About to Burst back in 2001. I guess it just continued to inflate...



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by Gools
 


Was not a member in July 2004 Gools so couldn't beat you to that


Anyhow as you can see from my other posts on here I mentioned you in Particular, and have learnt much from your sources indeed, infact your grasp of Macroeconomics is awesome, I always mentally imagined you as having a Tefal type forehead to hold all that knowledge on this, and other ATS members on his thread and some other select Mods too in their speciality


Yep should have mentioned the petrodollar and bourse, in reply to but as you know have elsewhere...

I do find it frustrating for me personally though, I made a choice when I posted link at that time in my life to do a good thing, and help a family member who was ill, and lost therefore the ability to profit from what we saw coming, lost my client bank which is netting over 50k this year £ still.
Would have made a lot then on gold Futures etc, and oil as you can see, when i posted that I made the decision that month, and Caring provides noo income hardly at all in the UK!

I recently got back into finance 1 yr ago and resigned Underwriting 6 months ago, as the total manipulation of figures on a secured basis to Hit targets by managers, owners and endemic company wide fraud....I hope others like you and me who saw this all those years ago were more fortunate than me in life situations outside of work to maybe just once make some $ whilst the big shmoozers and cheats are loosing it.... Bless them ripping of people for 30 yrs and having to throw in their Aston's with their Penthouses to not go under themselves.

I think within the Depths of ATS forget WEBOTS if anyone has a discering eye they can see much of what will come to pass.

The hypnotised belief of the illusion is behind not others seeing it firts, or accepting these facts of where things were going I think, maybe fear too.

And I find it particularly funny that many of those who up until maybe 6 months to 1 yr ago, where calling us doomsayers etc, now state "anyone could see it happening" and "the writing was on the wall" etc well if soo why were 1 million a year salaries still being paid to manage their 401k and mortgage securities...lol

Its easy to be a expert in retrospect luckily ATS has many who are able to see the wood from the trees.

Kind regards,

Elf

edit:reply to post by Rockpuck
 

Hey is ok was only teasing M8, I think this thread is great, would need pages and pages of truths written on ATS from you and others alike too to get them all. It does feel a little good though to give it back to the sceptic's and naysayers and doom labellers though does it not? Thanks for the thread had an S+F as soon as i read it, and the debate was brilliant you posted as said Bravo!

[edit on 2-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


That was the point of my very first thread that I posted on ATS. The heading is "Economy Sinking and Government Lying About It" People called me a liar for calling the government a liar. Our government lies. I do not trust the crooks in Washington.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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Well so long as house prices keep falling banks will keep losing capital/collateral.

There was a chart i saw that showed the amount of excess reserves banks have rose from 2 billion in early september to 600 billion now, yet the big banks are not lending it out. They don't trust the ability of the corporations or the borrowers to pay it back, plus they know more write downs are coming. This unwillingness for banks to lend even when the fed creates alot of new "money" for them to do so.......sort of STOPS Inflationary fears for the short term. On the flip side, Thankfully lots of the smaller regional banks are still lending at a healthy clip.

The Fed can't get the newly created money into the hands of the consumers/public. They Want to devlaue the dollar to stop the deflation of asset prices, yet manage the gold price. They are walking a bit of a tight rope. All the while more layoffs feed into the slow down of consumer spending and then more layoffs.


The Easy stuff to predict has passed. Also to the posters that choose to claim the reason they didn't believe the negative economic predictions on ATS were because of people yelling to store food and get guns ready is a cop out. The majority of people giving economic warnings/ predictions didn't yell to run for the hills. Most didn't believe because they didn't want to IMO.

IMO the only thing that will stave off a depression and disintergation of most economy's will be a debt jubliee (forgiveness) as well as a massive investment in infrastructure that creates millions upon millions of jobs. Don't look for this to happen anytime soon.

Things to look for in the near term include the possibility of a COMEX default and a major up move in the price of gold (right now the difference between the paper price and the price demanded for physical ownership is hundreds of dollars.

Also Keep and Eye on Middle eastern nations (OPEC) INC Russia and the falling price of oil, they are not happy with this, and may ask for either a basket of currency's for more stability or perhaps GOLD in return for oil. Or perhaps a major cutback in supply. The economy's in Europe and the Middle east are currently facing massive problems close to the severity of the USA , not to mention Australia and South america, and yet they don't have the cushion of having the world reserve currency to prop up their currency markets.

Also watch for more severe terror attacks and loss of constitutional freedoms in the next year, things are getting extremely unstable and desperate times call for desperate measures.

[edit on 2-12-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:07 PM
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This has got to be the funniest thread on ATS. ATS members have been declaring the next recession/depression forever. Has there ever been a time when it wasn't being predicted? Like a broken clock, if you predict something long enough YOU WILL BE CORRECT eventually. ATS members remind me of Peter Schiff. Schiff's clients have lost tons of money over the years because the man has predicted utter economic catastrophes since the 1980s. Over the last year they have FINALLY made some money because he finally got it right. Everyone ignores that he was consistently wrong before and focuses only on the fact that he got something right recently, as if this erased the past 20 years of completely wrong predictions


If I predict that the economy will go up every day from now until it happens - and it will happen eventually - will I also be worshipped for my utter brilliance?

By the way, I notice how everyone is ignoring all the posts I found when I looked this up on "$200 oil" and $2,000" gold. How convenient


[edit on 2-12-2008 by LowLevelMason]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by LowLevelMason
Snip/ Has there ever been a time when it wasn't being predicted? Like a broken clock, if you predict something long enough YOU WILL BE CORRECT eventually.


Oh dear,

Hello LLM again, I am afraid you don't have any accolades here, I remember you saying even last week I believe that, everything was still fine... well.

Well in fact if you look at where the Rockpuck shows his debate etc, it was not years ago, and very close to the event.

Same for members Like Gools Etc.

I show personally here in my Oil thread that I made a prediction in Aug/08 and was proved right by January the next year practically to the day.

And the subsequent then rise above $100 a barrel.

I have never said it before, and had not been banging on about it for years.

Strange how the futures market did not hold the same view eh?

There are people in life, they are either repeaters or genius's


Thanks for your contribution, as I see recently there is nothing you can repeat from others that is coming to pass, please show us an example of your wisdom on ATS if you want to Knock those mentioned here first?

Please Please don't derail and spoil this thread too.

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 2-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by LowLevelMason
This has got to be the funniest thread on ATS. ATS members have been declaring the next recession/depression forever. Has there ever been a time when it wasn't being predicted? Like a broken clock, if you predict something long enough YOU WILL BE CORRECT eventually. ATS members remind me of Peter Schiff. Schiff's clients have lost tons of money over the years because the man has predicted utter economic catastrophes since the 1980s. Over the last year they have FINALLY made some money because he finally got it right. Everyone ignores that he was consistently wrong before and focuses only on the fact that he got something right recently, as if this erased the past 20 years of completely wrong predictions


If I predict that the economy will go up every day from now until it happens - and it will happen eventually - will I also be worshipped for my utter brilliance?

By the way, I notice how everyone is ignoring all the posts I found when I looked this up on "$200 oil" and $2,000" gold. How convenient


[edit on 2-12-2008 by LowLevelMason]


No need to be mad you were wrong. I told you in December that the government was lying to us that we were in a recession and you did nothing but dog on me and mock me. Remember the "Run Sheeple the End is Nigh" I laughed at you mocking me that was funny but now that time as passed we see who was right dont we? Dont worry Light I still love you



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Although I was disappointed not to see any of my quotes, it is great that you went through and pointed some of these things out. I just read a thread the other day (too lazy to link it, long day of work) that basically said everyone was crawling out of the woodworks claiming to have called all of these economic issues. Cheers to all of us who weren't blinded by the MSM and saw the light! For the record, I have said for some time that this recession actually started in the end of '05, early '06, and I still believe that...the signs were showing up that far back.

[edit on 2-12-2008 by BennyHill]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


On dear, its the MicheviousTroll again. You have, as usual, utterly failed to answer the question: when has some horrible economic event not been predicted by the majority of ATS members?

Predicting that things will be horrible 100% of the time does not make you a prophet, it makes you a consistent pessimist. Oh goody, you predicted things would be horrible in 2005 - and we went through 2 years of things being just fine - what good is your prediction then? Its worthless without dates, and so far things have been fine for a longer period than they have been bad.

If someone on ATS predicted "Starting in December of 2007 we will have a recession which will last through 2008" - then they deserve accolades. However, instead what we have is a bunch of people predicting economic depressions, catastrophes, disasters, and everything else every month of every year since ATS has been in existence. We've seen people predicting $200 and $300 barrels of oils and $2000, $2,500 gold. Given that this is a recession, and so far its not even close to being global, they have been quite wrong. And the people predicting the commodities were 100% wrong.

But I'll let you continue to congratulate yourself if it makes you feel better.
ATS is showing yet again how wrong it is. I don't have to do anything but sit back and laugh.
Food riots, $200 oil, $2,000 gold, economic depressions, wars...were all predicted. What did we get? A recession in the US and a few other countries. Right on target!



In a post where you unilaterally held that the price of oil would go to $75 and beyond and NOT come back down:


People watch the price of Gold, Silver, palladium rise now in response to this...infact if I was looking for an investment over the next ten years, it would be these items
www.abovetopsecret.com...



TRUST ME AS I PROVED IT 3 YEARS AGO OIL WILL BE AT OVER $200 DOLLARS A BARREL WITHIN 3 MONTHS IF NOT BY JAN 09 AT THE LATEST.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you or anyone else took your predictions seriously, they would be in a world of hurt right now.

And hey, its not just you. I could find tens of posts where you - and others - have made hilariously wrong predictions time and time again. I'm only focusing on you because you were the first troll to respond, and frankly now that I've had my laugh at this thread I won't be back to see how the rest of the "we are all doomed" group responds - but I could do the same for each of them. The point is you are acting like you have some sort of foresight on events, when in reality all you are doing is consistently offering predictions that things will be horrible.

And frankly, given the caliber of "stock up on food and flee for the hills" predictions that are made on ATS, I wouldn't even call a recession as being anywhere close to what was predicted.

[edit on 2-12-2008 by LowLevelMason]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by LowLevelMason
reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


On dear, its the MicheviousTroll again. You have, as usual, utterly failed to answer the question: when has some horrible economic event not been predicted by the majority of ATS members?

Predicting that things will be horrible 100% of the time does not make you a prophet, it makes you a consistent pessimist. Oh goody, you predicted things would be horrible in 2005 - and we went through 2 years of things being just fine - what good is your prediction then? Its worthless without dates, and so far things have been fine for a longer period than they have been bad.

If someone on ATS predicted "Starting in December of 2007 we will have a recession which will last through 2008" - then they deserve accolades. However, instead what we have is a bunch of people predicting economic depressions, catastrophes, disasters, and everything else every month of every year since ATS has been in existence. We've seen people predicting $200 and $300 barrels of oils and $2000, $2,500 gold. Given that this is a recession, and so far its not even close to being global, they have been quite wrong. And the people predicting the commodities were 100% wrong.

But I'll let you continue to congratulate yourself if it makes you feel better.
ATS is showing yet again how wrong it is. I don't have to do anything but sit back and laugh.
Food riots, $200 oil, $2,000 gold, economic depressions, wars...were all predicted. What did we get? A recession in the US and a few other countries. Right on target!



[edit on 2-12-2008 by LowLevelMason]


I think you are missing the point...what we have been predicting is that things would get bad. We haven't set a date and then moved the finish line with each miss (no one can predict exactly when the downturn will happen, only recognize that it is inevitable)...the poop was airborne and we knew eventually it had to hit the fan



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by cpdaman
 




There was a chart i saw that showed the amount of excess reserves banks have rose from 2 billion in early september to 600 billion now, yet the big banks are not lending it out. They don't trust the ability of the corporations or the borrowers to pay it back, plus they know more write downs are coming. This unwillingness for banks to lend even when the fed creates alot of new "money" for them to do so.......sort of STOPS Inflationary fears for the short term. On the flip side, Thankfully lots of the smaller regional banks are still lending at a healthy clip.


I agree.. they print billions and we never see it.. filling in the debt holes or the ratio to which banks extended the actual ownership of dollar reserves to how much they lent out.

However, if they are hoarding all this cash, releasing it into the market via cheap(er) credit would certainly accelerate consumer confidence, buying power, etc..

Sort of like a reboot of the economy.

I think there has to be a REASON they are not loaning this money out. If the Gov gave me $25billion to play with and I could loan it out risk free (hell if I loose my bets, gov gives me more money since they proved we cannot fail..) .. I sure as hell would be loaning to anyone who wanted a loan!.

ESPECIALLY since they are all paying a rather steep (as far as federal loans go) interest on their Senior Preferred Shares they dished out to Uncle Sam.

Their internal problems must be much more severe.

Only other excuse I can think of .. is that the debt is SO MASSIVE that even when the Treasury tosses $350 billion into the financial markets, it's swallowed without effect.

IMO, best options is to let the system collapse and let it start again. Just seems to me the Fed is building a house of glass.

I have noticed one by one Hedge funds are restricting withdraws.
Not even the rich escape global down turns.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 


I am not the troll but you consistently are,

When I posted those, I stated a time, and price. Not Generally, exactly, and placed a Bet on it unlike the others you mention.

I am surprised that Oil is not higher but Jan 09 has not come yet and production is being cutting back, so who knows eh?

And yes 10 yrs is very long time for precious metals, it will IMHO go that way when the currencies collapse, maybe the Pound maybe the dollar.

How can you say a statement i make about 10 yrs time is not right?

I say as below to get Gold, My friends did when around 270-300 and did very very nicely indeed thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell them that, when they cashed it in a year ago, some still hold some.

I stated the reasons for the following financial Collapse whilst people who believed like you were still getting into more debt, and paying too much for Real estate in the medium term, but do mention then that Gold (when at I think $272!!!!) was where I would go.

Right, Right and right so like so many of the other contributers.

Before I posted that I was going against the grain in the industry and advising clients to not get top ups on secured loans, mortgages etc, and when finishing my consultation with them putting all their credit cards in an envelope in the last meeting. Writing the amount of interest and monthly payments it was costing them, the total true costs and how they could reduce their Mortgage amount to spend it that way instead by reducing their secured loans, the time off the loan, i.e 2-5 yrs less allowing a better retirement. sealing the envelope with tape and writing on it the above amounts with THINK BEFORE OPENING & USING AGAIN.


If anyone listened to you they would be bankrupt now!

My clients unlike most of advisers are very happy and safe, if they took my advise and carried on as advised, though I no longer have the client bank as mentioned in an above post.

OK so I thought the bubble in the housing would go a bit earlier than it did, but it did go. I am not here on this thread to stroke my ego but to show the contribution SOME ATS members have clearly shown.

I wont go into a tirade with you LLM because you just want to derail this. Please I would like, and I know all others here would too to read a Post of yours that can be shown as the posts already to be accurate and correct.

I really look forward to that so that just for once I could agree with you.

Please LLM Please just once walk, if you cant contribute any of your posts, or support of this thread and don't spoil this with your pointless Attacks.

Elf

[edit on 2-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 


Gold markets are being held in check, but will increase to new historic levels. As will silver. There are a lot of dollars that need to be released into the markets yet.


MBU Oil $50 -- 7/2008 before peak oil!!



Yaak $40-25 bbl oil --2006

StellarX -- $50 bbl oil 06/2008 .. 2 months prior to peak oil

reply to post by Rockpuck
 




It's true value is actually more along the lines of $40-$45 a barrel.


Myself, in Stellars thread, in June, advsing the real value in the $40 range.

Current crude range == 48.58 - 49.47
Current 52 week crude range == 48.58 - 145.40

1yr average forecast is in the $50 range and dropping.

We call this "eating your own words". Tasty?



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by Battleline
I read all the posts and you are all very smart it would seem,at least as fare as you all are concerened,but where are the solutions?

What good is knowing whats going to happen if you just become a part of it and have no idea what to do once it happens?


So basically you want to know what is a permanent long term fix ?

1)Variable or adjustable rate interest made illegal, ie. ARM loans.

2)If you buy a house, you put 20% down, it used to be that way.

3)The creation of money is put back into the hands of the government,
and the Federal Reserve and Central Banks and corporate sharks
are made illegal. A balanced budget is made an ammendment to
the constitution except in a time of war, and the president may no
longer operate a war to bypass congress and war must be declared.

4)All foreign aid to all countries ends in totality immediately.

5)All corporate Welfare ends immediately.

6)Bring back the WPA and CCC for the unemployed, and fix all
the painted rust issues in the entire country.

7)If a country is breaking our labor laws, then it should be illegal
to do business with them. Their goods will not be so cheap if they
have to treat their workers with the same safety and respect we
have here under law. Violating our own laws by proxy is the
highest form of hypocrisy.

8)Anyone found guilty of "creative accounting" or "fraud" or
other crimes that led to the coming derivatives crash are
banned for life from working in that area EVER again in any
country anywhere on Earth. They do this to computer
criminals, so turn about is fair play guys


9)Anyone that profited from crimes in the financial sector and
they were found complicit has all their assets seized and auctioned
to cover the losses, and then see #8.

10)The countries that owe the US massive amounts and refuse
to make the payments to the US now receive a equal transfer
of our debt to them and we no longer loan them one red cent.

11)Stop sending trillions of dollars out of the country every year
just for fuel, and start making that fuel here in the US via the
methods lined out by Valcent Technologies, Coskata, LS9, and
Picken's Plan.

12)The large number of ppl that will begin working for the WPA
and CCC from #6 are put to work making the wind, solar, and
fuel projects all over the US on non-arable land such as desert.

13)The horrid levels of greed seen in the corporate medical
system are abolished for a system like the US military gets
from USAA for Insurance, making a large Co-op not for profit
org with paid employees from #6 and providing affordable
Insurance for doctors and hospitals. The greed that is killing
americans in hospitals needs to die. Watch Sicko for a taste of it.
This Co-op type insurance made available JUST to prior military
needs to be made available to all citizens for health, car, home, etc,
and the for profit greed monstrosity needs to be cut adrift.

As we have plainly seen greed is not good.

14)Recall all troops in Japan, Germany, and South Korea and close
all but one of the bases in those countries, and the one left open
UN troops can use it til it is TRULY needed by the US.
Additonally close the majority of the 700+ bases in 130+ countries.

15)All buildings in the US will be built to code for the likely disasters
that occur in those areas and is already mandated in most areas
of the US and just make common sense.

16)State, Federal, and BLM land not in use and with no protected
wild life or plants can be used by the poor to grow food.

17)Camping on State, Fedral, or BLM land is free for the homeless,
but they must adhere to clean campsite rules and must pass a test
to camp there, free booklets for them to learn provided to them.

18)Prisoners move to a work-reward program in all prisons in the US.
If they work a little, they get better food, if they do not work at all
they get minimal bland survival food that is grown by the prisoners
that are willing to work for rewards. The prisoners who work well
get steak, chicken, and other good foods, and depending on behaviour
get Satellite TV, video games, books, job training,
distance learning, swimming pool, sports, etc etc.

If you want them to act civilized your going to have to SHOW them
civilization.

Prisoners that are violent and do not cooperate are isolated from
prisoners that try to improve.

19)Move to a flat tax and start reducing the size of the IRS
through offers for early retirement, and job retraing programs.
If we can give a flat tax to the iraqi's we can give one to us.

20)After the massive overseas base closures, cut defense spending
accordingly. Then the huge mega-corps that make mega-billions
off over priced items are slowly phased out and the government
takes over making the defense items minus the huge stock
payouts and huge executive pay. Eisenhower's warning was
ignored and it is time it is fixed.

21)State or Federal Governments may not raise the taxes on
citizen property without justifying it prior a random blind selected
jury to hear the case of the tax increase. Also abolish the
death tax it amounts to double taxation.

These 21 are a good start as to what would help the country,
if I gave it serious thought I could double the list.



[edit on 2-12-2008 by Ex_MislTech]

[edit on 2-12-2008 by Ex_MislTech]

[edit on 2-12-2008 by Ex_MislTech]

[edit on 2-12-2008 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by MischeviousElf

I am not the troll but you consistently are,


No, you are the beastly troll who consistently interrupts the ceremony.







[edit on 12/2/2008 by stander]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


That was the point of my very first thread that I posted on ATS. The heading is "Economy Sinking and Government Lying About It" People called me a liar for calling the government a liar. Our government lies. I do not trust the crooks in Washington.


Politicians and lawyers and banksters are crooks of the highest
magnitude, and until we get some kind of open government
where they cannot pull some of these stunts behind close doors
we are truly screwed.

Personally I think we are headed to WW3 slowly but surely.

The Fed handing out 3 trillion and then refusing to say to whom ?

It is almost comical...





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