Originally posted by mamasita
oh hi ash how have you been? yes i'm aware your a smart cookie i've debated with you before lolz
I remember you, too.
*Platonic cheek smooches. Haven't seen you around in a while. How have you been?
i'm sorry but i dont have time to read a full debate they can go on forever! just some evidence of Virgin Mary being mentioned in the bible
will be sufficient.
Here are some excerpts I posted in the other thread:
'God existing in flesh, true life in death, both of Mary and of God, first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord... There is
then one Teacher, who spake and it was done. While even those things which He did in silence are worthy of the Father... Let us therefore do all
things as those who have Him dwelling in us, that we may be His temples, and He may be in us as our God... God Himself being manifested in human form
for the renewal of eternal life. And now that took a beginning which had been prepared by God.'
Ignatius' Epistle to the Ephesians (VII, XV, XVIII, XIX)
And Jesus the Christ, because the Jews knew not what the Father was, and what the Son, in like manner accused them and Himself said, "No one
knows the Father except the Son nor the Son but the Father..." Now the Word of God is His Son, as we have before said... As our Lord Himself says,
"He that hears Me, hears Him that sent Me." Now by the will of God having become man for the human race. Who also, being the first-begotten Word of
God, is even God.
Justin Martyr, I Apology (LXIII)
The Word of God, who became flesh for them. For it was for this end that the Word of God was made man, and He who was the Son of God became the
Son of man, that man, having been taken into the Word, and receiving the adoption, might become the son of God... The Son of man, this is Christ, the
Son of the living God. He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word... He is
the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counsellor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God. God, our Lord, being the Word of the Father, and the
Son of man, since He had a generation as to His human nature from Mary-who was descended from mankind, and who was herself a human being-was made the
Son of man. "God with us."
Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses (XIX)
He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh but Son of God by the Divine will and powered, truly born of a virgin and baptized by John
that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch... That He
might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection.
Also from Ignatius.
The above are just examples. There are tons more but, again, the main site is down and all I have for now is the other thread.
THIS specific post dealing mostly with the virgin birth, Mary, and trinity.
There's more examples over there.
tablets that predate the hebrew texts? sounds facsinating - could you provide me with a link?
HERE is a source that looks like it approaches the issue from a secular view. It even seems to
disagree with my view so that should be pretty fair.
ok so if the food, clothing and jewels were for the priests - why would they be allowed to gain such fortunes? that would mean having slaves
bring that to you - so God had slaves? and just the point of him giving his followers jewels defies the whole teaching of the church! and if he gets
this stuff then why isnt he doing it now? in fact where the hell is he? he's quite rude not turning up like he promised - he hasnt been around in so
long its amazing people still do worship him - her it whatever it is today.
Jewish history is something I don't know too much about. That's one of my ignorant areas. From what I know (and it is very limited), the Levi tribe
(the ones who ran the temple) were not allowed to own anything personally. I might be totally wrong but that is what I remember. Often times, the
riches/spoils were also not allowed to be taken, kept, or reused but had to be destroyed completely. I believe the Levites were given food and
clothing but I am not aware of them receiving jewels or riches. Anything of that sort I believe was only used for building the temple (but I may be
totally wrong).
2). At that point it would not have defied the whole teaching of 'the church' because that was in OT times while 'the church' started by Jesus is
a NT concept. The temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. so there was no more temple or rituals taking place. Also, Jesus taught that we were the temple
where the spirit now dwells. So really there is nothing in the NT that makes elaborate churches the norm (although a new temple is prophesied for the
end times). Not that having a nice church is sinful or unbiblical. But I do believe the saying rings true: The
love of money is the root of all
evil.
3). I believe we are in the morning of the 'third day' in a prophetic sense. It would totally derail the thread but it alludes to a prophecy in
Hosea where it says the Messiah would be gone for two days and return on the third. Then in Peter's Epistles, dealing with the context of Jesus'
return, we are told not to be impatient but that a day is like 1,000 years to God and vice versa. I'm not claiming anything for certain but it is
interesting when you cross reference those passages. Then adding the end times fulfillments we are now seeing, I can only come to the conclusion we
are very near. But trust me- nobody yearns for His coming more than Christians.
oh and its interesting to note that its actually the most religious countries that are the most violent - the least violent countries are where
religion population is at its lowest
Not necessarily.
It is true that, let's say countries in the Middle East under sharia law are extremely violent or what happened during the
crusades with the church, but there are several atheistic countries in the East that have been responsible for the deaths of tens of millions in the
last century alone. It's terrible over there.
[edit on 12/2/2008 by AshleyD]
