“OMG! ‘Faith’ and ‘Quantum Physics’ are the SAME thing!” Well Maybe…??, page 8
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 31 times


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 04:38 PM by OldThinker
Originally posted by juveous
reply to
post by gormly



speculative connecting the dots - no harm - I think these topics provoke open-mindedness to creativity, even though they come from the ambiguous and not the empirical - after all this is how new ideas and theories formulate.



Would you not agree that what we 'see' is the effect...of 'some' type of cause? Would the effect not be empirical? and observable?

I'm a Master Black Belt in Statistical studies of Lean Six Sigma...ever heard of 'Standard deviation'?


= = = = =
Below...I cut and pasted a prior post about what we 'see'...


OT got a new lawnmower...

Occams Razor asks, how'd that there Lawnboy come into existence? Good question 'OR' Well given enough time.........and chance.......and some more time........and chance......those wheels could wind up bolted to that little chassis you know.......and then after awhile that fuel injection system.....could find its way next to the handle bars.....and that fancy grass catcher could just plop on the back end....AND WALLA!


No, some....ONE (person/intellectual/skilled person) engineered it/built it/manufactured it....right?

OT believes it did not just happen....because of it's....ready.....COMPLEXITY....


Are you/me/the universe a tad MORE complex?




OT thanks you for the great question!!!


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 04:39 PM by OldThinker
reply to post by Byrd




Byrd, send OT what you have....whatever is easiest for you!!!


Thanks for the post/contribution....I look forward to assimilating it alll, ok?






reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 04:45 PM by OldThinker
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to
post by gormly

It also sort of annoys me when people ask a perfectly good question and then it gets muddied by quotes from the Bible or some other book of folk tales like that. Lets keep our philosophy seperate from our rigorously defined science, ok?



OT did ask a good question right?

OT's the one who put the bible verses in there, too....right?

OT....DOESN"T know any Fairies?????? sept this conflicted kid....I knew back in the 60's

Just joking....do you HAVE A question...or positive contribution?


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 04:55 PM by nj2day
reply to post by OldThinker



lol nah, I haven't had that too often in this thread... there have been others though...

One day I typed up a long 8000 character reply to someone... then decided against it and didn't send it lol...

Here, knowing the rules of engagement... I only try to point out failures in reasoning... and tend to lean towards input on the scientific side for the quantum stuff...

Anyway, Your premise that jesus could be the thing holding stuff together...

I was stating that jesus was a man... (a pretty important one though) and not god himself...

so the existence of the universe prior to his birth would automatically refute the theory that he's the force "holding it together"




[edit on 2-12-2008 by nj2day]


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 05:02 PM by OldThinker
Originally posted by nj2day
reply to
post by OldThinker


....
Anyway, Your premise that jesus could be the thing holding stuff together...

I was stating that jesus was a man... (a pretty important one though) and not god himself...
[edit on 2-12-2008 by nj2day]


nah...sorry...u gotta laugh....

btw, who was he?

btw2, glad ur still here.... you know OT respects you...!

OT



reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 05:20 PM by OldThinker
reply to post by nj2day




OK>>>>>>ok>>>>>>>>>

Wouldn't expect anything less/different from you....


I'll keep watching the responses....from others....and u2u you as appropriate...


It has been good....I am pleased...looking forward to Mod Byrd's input...something tells me OT got some studying to do...

As an aside, was the OP different from what you have heard from the 'religious'?

Curious?



[edit on 2-12-2008 by OldThinker]


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 05:33 PM by apaulo
reply to post by OldThinker



Thanks for the welcome, Oldthinker.

I do like your signature, by the way. It is so easy, isn’t it… to see who His disciples are? I mean it seems so simple, and yet so many just miss it. The evidence of salvation is when you Love others as yourself, because that is what He said to do if you Love Him. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately… if we got the goods, then we can get along.

Sorry to get off the O.P.

I still have yet to finish the thread, so anything I can actually add will be later…

Oh yeah, those Sooners… they’ve had a great season. I guess we’ll have to see what happens this Saturday when the play MU...


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 05:41 PM by OldThinker
reply to post by apaulo




You should win....wow....the BCS? OT agrees with prez-elect BO...maybe 4 teams though....not 8....and do it all AFTER the bowls...no one gets hurt.....cept the deemed 5 team....stink! subjectivity AGAIN....kinda like OT's OP, huh?.... ....atleast acccording to my skeptic friends....!

= = = = =

There is SO much UNDER the surface on this thread....sweeeeeeet avatar!!!!!


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 06:21 PM by Byrd
Okay... beginning to address some of the issues here.

Many people claim to understand Einstein's E=MC2 equation, and even to know where it went wrong (and then promptly prove that they have no idea what it really means by doing some rather goofy math with it.) So, in order to begin to examine your question thoroughly, you need to be able to read Einstein's original paper and understand it and understand all the math in it (the "E" in that famous equation (as the footnote says) is actually an "L".)

It's here. Don't worry -- it's short -- only one page! :
www.fourmilab.ch...

When you understand it, you should be able to answer the question in his title and explain your answer.

Now, that's one of the foundation papers to understanding quantum physics. The direction you were trying to examine involves something called "Quantum Entanglement" and here is one of the very first papers written on it: www.hep.princeton.edu...

To start to really understand the subject, you need to read those two short papers and start looking up all the things that make you go "huh?" You won't be an expert after that, but you're going to start to understand some things about Quantum Entanglement and why the pages you found as reference are simply someone's invention of an idea of what they think it all means.

Here's the rest of the reading list in order to start understanding quantum mechanics. You should be able to understand the terms and at least understand what the math symbols stand for and what operations are being done :

1. puhep1.princeton.edu...

2. arxiv.org... (the Bohman equations are a foundation)

3. www.ecse.rpi.edu...



* a quick "reader's digest" version of some of the contributions in the above papers is here: blue.butler.edu...

...and yes, over the course of a lifetime, I've read these. I stumble through the math, but I understand where it's going and what they're talking about.


LIST OF TOPICS YOU CAN DO QUICK READS ON TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT QUANTUM PHYSICS:

A 1957 (half a century out of date) article on early quantum mechanics. From an encyclopedia, so it's actually readable:
hep.princeton.edu...


Going deeper, read up on:

* quantum superposition
* Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
* the "collapse" of the wave function
* introduction to Dirac notation
* Hilbert spaces (these are fun!)
* unitary transformations
* quantum measurement.
* quantum computation (Wikipedia is your buddy on this one)
* Quantum information theory
* Quantum error-correcting codes (do a Wikipedia read)
* Quantum complexity theory (Wikipedia. Trust me.)
* quantum entanglement and locality
* Topological quantum computing (Wikipedia. Again.
* Quantum knots arxiv.org...


And a fun (and readable) article on proposed "how quantum computing works" is here: marcuslab.harvard.edu...

So... once you've got those basics, then you could start with this paper on quantum mechanics which deals with "faster than light" theories such as you were asking about -- from the REAL quantum mechanics perspective:
arxiv.org...

An interesting thing to consider is the "spooky action at a distance" (real name) principle. I know one of the researchers doing work on this, and I know that their work sometimes gets inserted (and badly) into material on faith. Spooky action appears to work only at the quantum level, but if it can be proved then it raises some very interesting questions about the behavior of things: arxiv.org...

(I think that Spooky Action is my second favorite quantum physics idea. Hilbert's my favorite.)



reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 06:47 PM by OldThinker
reply to post by nj2day





told

you!

OT




that yah....weh....things is worthy of a second thought!!


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 07:09 PM by OldThinker
reply to post by Byrd



Byrd…..thank you….I’ll investigate…..Here’s some for you to review, too….

www.asa3.org...

www.khouse.org...

and this young…Adventurer here…. www.scribd.com...


OT



PS: Bryd, have you ever read Josh McDowell….or…Ravi Zacharias?


reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 07:18 PM by OldThinker
Originally posted by darkelf
reply to
post by OldThinker



Off topic . . . if you like Peretti, you'll probably like Randy Alcorn. His books deal alot in the spiritual realm.



Randy Alcorn, huh?


What are his titles/works....?


I'll look up....!

OT
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