“OMG! ‘Faith’ and ‘Quantum Physics’ are the SAME thing!” Well Maybe…??

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by rikk7111

 

rikki7111,

welcome!

any thoughts on the ramifications on my last list of questions..?

OT

Love that avatar!

A) Is there a connection/similarity between faith and material? If so, what?

I would most assuredly think so............Think of the stories in the bible when Jesus healed many, he told a good number that " according to your FAITH be ye healed"..........Now if one was blind totally, and it took faith to miraculously heal him, you have a clear answer to you question. Faith some how mixed with energy(matter) to change something that was not there before. One more example, when Peter cut the guards ear off in the gospels Jesus put the mans ear back on, it mended together on the faith of Jesus.............Now some will say, well that was Jesus, but Jesus himself said that we could do works in like manner if we only had Faith.

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by rikk7111
reply to post by OldThinker

 

I totally agree on your assessment, many scriptures in the bible seem to lean heavily on this fact not theory. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". ...Hebrews:11. Just in this one verse it seems iron clad, Not to mention many others. I want to thank you for this thread, because it will shed light to many who are unaware.............

did you get a chance to view that 8 min youtube on Laminin, mentioned in the OP? I've seen that guy speak....seems sincere?

Yes I have, and he wonderfully displayed the power of God in scientific terms that anyone could understand.Not saying I agree with everything he believes, but he has a good grasp on many things.

Hey OT, I think I'm going to need further elaboration and have you add some definitions...

When you define Faith as belief... are you using it to infer belief in anything in particular, as it is commonly used?

and the second one I need the definition of the word "god" as you intended it to be used in this thread...

Tough questions that may seem trivial, but it means a world of difference

reply to post by rikk7111



Great!

You know I love (and trust in) the word providence!!!

I was just viewing...

www.scribd.com...

....this when you replied...check it out....good food for thought....don't know if I agree with alll....but thought-provoking for sure

reply to post by nj2day



Nj2day…no prob...google ‘pistos’ in the konine greek…the original

You know OT…sorry….here’s some more biblical insight to supplement our understanding of 'faith'…

Here's a good sight for greek translation... bible.crosswalk.com...

The Bible says that "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"
(Hebrews 11:1). To have faith is to believe God's Word before it comes to pass. The acronym for the word faith says it best: Forsaking All I Trust Him.
(John 15:19). Because this is true, faith is absolutely essential for our journey.

Faith is a gift of God. "According as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith" (Romans 12:3).
Without faith we cannot please God. "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him" (Hebrews 11:6)."For whatsoever is not of faith is sin"
(Romans 14:23).
The just shall live by faith. "For therein [in the Gospel] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith"
(Romans 1:17).
We are made righteous by faith, not by keeping the Law. "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe"
(Romans 3:22). "And be found in him [Jesus], not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Philippians 3:9).
We are justified (declared righteous) by faith, not by works. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ ...
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Galatians 2:16).
We are sanctified (made holy) by faith. "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me"
(Acts 26:18).
We become the children of God by faith. "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus"
(Galatians 3:26).
Jesus Christ dwells in our hearts by faith. "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love" (Ephesians 3:17). "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe" (Galatians 3:22).


= = = = = =

I'm going to get a pizza and cold one ....see you in an hour or so...

OT I gotta tell you ..you are so cool ....I dont believe I have ever met anyone quite like you ..and I do love you ..even if we dont always agree on some things ..............
You really are a joy to read ..even if I dont understand about half of what you post (It is not you ..it is just my ignorance).which I will admit to being somewhat ignorant to alot of things ..lol ...


I am listening though ...yall are doing great with this ..I will be very interested in seeing the outcome ..after everyone chimes in .........


Science and the bible very well could come together and teach us all alot..
Which is why I read Science Daily magazine and I am fascinated by what they come up with ..but they dont show me God does not exist (Like some claim it did them) it actually proves even more to me that he does ..some of what Science comes up with ...........

So I am listening ..



[edit on 1-12-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by nj2day
Hey OT, I think I'm going to need further elaboration and have you add some definitions...

When you define Faith as belief... are you using it to infer belief in anything in particular, as it is commonly used?

and the second one I need the definition of the word "god" as you intended it to be used in this thread...

Tough questions that may seem trivial, but it means a world of difference

Def: Faith
1.Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2.Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.
3.Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4.often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5.The body of dogma of a religion:
A set of principles or beliefs.

Even if one is an Atheist, He displays faith in some way.........To have faith that a chair will hold you up, you sit in it. Just an example, not being sarcastic. Now even though I'm a Christian, that does not mean I am insinuating that faith can only be displayed by a believer. Faith is of things hoped for. one example, faith is reaching out into space and grabbing nothing and hanging on till it becomes something.

Note: God was mentioned in the opening thread.......................

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by rikk7111

 

Great!

You know I love (and trust in) the word providence!!!

I was just viewing...

www.scribd.com...

....this when you replied...check it out....good food for thought....don't know if I agree with alll....but thought-provoking for sure

Thanks, very interesting read...............

reply to post by rikk7111


See now your making alot of sense at least to me .. ..I will be watching your posts for sure ..
I know I can learn alot from you ...

Originally posted by rikk7111
Note: God was mentioned in the opening thread.......................

sorry if I missed it, but I took the points he brought up as qualities of god... not the definition itself...

I'm dense sometimes lol

I'm trying to figure out if I can constructively participate in this thread within OT's parameters... thats why these are important to me

I just finished re-reading one of my favorite Dean Koontz books; From the Corner of His Eye. Although fiction, this book deals with exactly this same precept that the two are inter-connected.

It weaves the possibility of other dimensions and how we are all inter-connected into a wonderful story of good and evil.

Originally posted by nj2day

Originally posted by rikk7111
Note: God was mentioned in the opening thread.......................

sorry if I missed it, but I took the points he brought up as qualities of god... not the definition itself...

I'm dense sometimes lol

I'm trying to figure out if I can constructively participate in this thread within OT's parameters... thats why these are important to me

That's Ok, I get dense sometimes as well, Just look at my hair...

I read a little on your background and watched your music video.

You mentioned joy in your OP in your background. Perhaps you will appreciate this:

I can create happiness. I can buy a dress (yes, I am a woman :lol, go to a lovely place for dinner with my husband, or read a good book, or stand on a mountain top.

But, I cannot create JOY! Joy is one of those energy things that comes from God. A whole body experience that I do not have the capability of creating (without drugs ).

When I am having a hard time I ask for Joy.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
OT I gotta tell you ..you are so cool ....I dont believe I have ever met anyone quite like you...

Science and the bible very well could come together ...

So I am listening ..

nah...god directs this stubborn ole dude...thanks for the compliment...

my mission is 2 bridge science and faith...the truth will...you know...

nj2day...urda man...seriously...post away...we r in this together...now back to the cold one/s

florida is great! noob must be sleeping...the boy smoked your other thread...he is scarry smart!

ot out

Originally posted by rikk7111

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by rikk7111
reply to post by OldThinker

 

did you get a chance to view that 8 min youtube on Laminin, mentioned in the OP? I've seen that guy speak....seems sincere?

Yes I have, and he wonderfully displayed the power of God in scientific terms that anyone could understand.Not saying I agree with everything he believes, but he has a good grasp on many things.

yeah that's what I thot...we saw him for the first time ever back in june...never heard of him...live at alive festival in ohio usa...the dude freakin blew ot away...and that takes a lot...he talked about a college girl/skeptic who got a new room-mate, called 'fruitcake'...who later died...think it's on dvd...was the most inspired talk I ever heard in person...

what surprised me was louie g was SO young...


OT was jealous really

reply to post by OldThinker

C) Is the Lord Jesus the missing ‘substance’ holding all ‘things’ together?

Now as a Christian I would give an emphatic Yes, but for an Atheist, Just think of what ever common denominator to creation you can think of.Read this scientific piece if you will.....................

Jesus Holds the Universe Together — By Robert Flores

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. —1 Corinthians 8:6

God created everything we see in the universe. He created the biggest planets to the smallest insects. So what exactly is this universe made of? It’s made of atoms, right? Well, sort of…

An atom consists of electrically negative electrons surrounding an electrically positive nucleus. The nucleus of an atom consists of positively charged protons and neutrally charged neutrons. Because opposite charges attract and like charges repel, the negative electrons are attracted to the positive nucleus. That is how an atom is able to stay together; it is electrically neutral. But how does a nucleus of an atom stay together? If similar charges repel, wouldn’t all the protons repel from each other?

Yes, and that is why electrical forces cannot account for the nucleus staying in one piece. There is another force that holds the nucleus together. It is called the Strong Nuclear Force. There are 4 fundamental forces that scientists have determined that make this universe run: gravity, electromagnetism, Strong Nuclear Force and Weak Nuclear Force. The Strong Nuclear Force is what attracts protons to protons, neutrons to neutrons and protons to neutrons. It is a much stronger force than either gravity or electromagnetism, but unlike either of those forces, it works stronger at greater distances and weaker at shorter distances. The Strong Nuclear Force is also responsible for holding the pieces of a proton together, i.e. the quarks and the gluons. Scientists don’t really know what quarks are, but they do know that there are always 3 quarks inside of a proton at any given time. Those quarks are held together by lots of gluons and are contained by other quarks that materialize and then vanish.

So there’s the universe for you. Everything we see is essentially a bunch of quarks rattling around inside of a proton, which is rattling inside the nucleus of an atom. So what is this Strong Nuclear Force? What if it were to suddenly stop working? Nothing would exist anymore. It’s enough to lose sleep over. Or, to give glory to God.

Those forces that hold our universe together are nothing short of the fingerprint of God. But how did these forces come into being? Did God just “spin them up” and let them roll? For example, we know about gravity, but what is it? How does it keep on working? Is God still involved in His creation? Well, the Bible seems to indicate that He is the One actively making those forces work. For example, in the Book of Colossians, Paul speaks of God’s amazing creative power:

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16-17)

“By Him” all things consist. Not “by gravity” or “by the Strong Nuclear Force”. It’s only by God that this entire universe exists. The word for “consist” (gr. sunistao) means “to put together, unite into one whole, compose”. On the most microscopic level Jesus is “uniting”, “putting together” and “composing” this whole thing together. If He were to “let go”, there would be no atoms, no protons and no quarks. He’s the One that created these forces and gave them instructions and maintains them and gives them “tech support”. Blind chance could NEVER account for these forces that work so seamlessly in our everyday lives. Listen to what Peter says:

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.” —2 Peter 3:7

The same word that created the heavens and the earth is the same word that keeps them in store until the day of judgment. God created it and He will recreate it someday. The word for “reserved” (gr. teros) means “to keep, watch, preserve”. God is keeping, watching and preserving the heavens and the earth. Does that not speak of every nucleus of every atom? Even Nehemiah says that God preserves the heavens, the earth and all the things in them (Nehemiah 9:6).

Here’s something else to think about. In 30AD Jesus, the Creator of this universe, was being crucified. But, even as He was dying at the hands of Roman soldiers, He was still holding their atoms together. To have spared Himself, Jesus would not have had to send “12 legions of angels” (Matt 26:54), He simply could have “let go” of the universe. End of story. But He didn’t. He went through with it, holding together the atoms of the cross, the nails and even the people who mocked him. And even in this age, when I sin against God, He is still holding my atoms together. What grace God continually gives us!

Sometimes unbelievers (even Christians) think that God cannot enter His own universe. “It would be too huge of a miracle”, they say. The universe itself is a miracle! Not just the fact that it exists, but that it keeps on existing.

So, can God enter this miracle called “the universe”? He doesn’t have to enter it; He’s already around in the midst of it, holding it together.



Even if you do not believe in God, what is holding us together?..................I think I will lean on a deity....

Originally posted by darkelf
I just finished re-reading one of my favorite Dean Koontz books (QUOTE)


Dean Koontz ?

OT never heard of him...pls tell me more...can 'google' him?

Thx for joining darkelf,
OT always appreciates your input!

reply to post by OldThinker

F) How does the Law of Attraction fit?

I believe it is in the same book of thought......Thought must precede its action, you have to think about something before it can exist.............before a building is ever created, it must first have been created in the mind.

Originally posted by rikk7111
reply to post by OldThinker

 

C) Is the Lord Jesus the missing ‘substance’ holding all ‘things’ together?

Now as a Christian I would give an emphatic Yes, but for an Atheist, Just think of what ever common denominator to creation you can think of.Read this scientific piece if you will.....................

Jesus Holds the Universe Together — By Robert Flores

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. —1 Corinthians 8:6

God created everything we see in the universe. He created the biggest planets to the smallest insects. So what exactly is this universe made of? It’s made of atoms, right? Well, sort of…

An atom consists of electrically negative electrons surrounding an electrically positive nucleus. The nucleus of an atom consists of positively charged protons and neutrally charged neutrons. Because opposite charges attract and like charges repel, the negative electrons are attracted to the positive nucleus. That is how an atom is able to stay together; it is electrically neutral. But how does a nucleus of an atom stay together? If similar charges repel, wouldn’t all the protons repel from each other?

Yes, and that is why electrical forces cannot account for the nucleus staying in one piece. There is another force that holds the nucleus together. It is called the Strong Nuclear Force. There are 4 fundamental forces that scientists have determined that make this universe run: gravity, electromagnetism, Strong Nuclear Force and Weak Nuclear Force. The Strong Nuclear Force is what attracts protons to protons, neutrons to neutrons and protons to neutrons. It is a much stronger force than either gravity or electromagnetism, but unlike either of those forces, it works stronger at greater distances and weaker at shorter distances. The Strong Nuclear Force is also responsible for holding the pieces of a proton together, i.e. the quarks and the gluons. Scientists don’t really know what quarks are, but they do know that there are always 3 quarks inside of a proton at any given time. Those quarks are held together by lots of gluons and are contained by other quarks that materialize and then vanish.

So there’s the universe for you. Everything we see is essentially a bunch of quarks rattling around inside of a proton, which is rattling inside the nucleus of an atom. So what is this Strong Nuclear Force? What if it were to suddenly stop working? Nothing would exist anymore. It’s enough to lose sleep over. Or, to give glory to God.

Those forces that hold our universe together are nothing short of the fingerprint of God. But how did these forces come into being? Did God just “spin them up” and let them roll? For example, we know about gravity, but what is it? How does it keep on working? Is God still involved in His creation? Well, the Bible seems to indicate that He is the One actively making those forces work. For example, in the Book of Colossians, Paul speaks of God’s amazing creative power:

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16-17)

“By Him” all things consist. Not “by gravity” or “by the Strong Nuclear Force”. It’s only by God that this entire universe exists. The word for “consist” (gr. sunistao) means “to put together, unite into one whole, compose”. On the most microscopic level Jesus is “uniting”, “putting together” and “composing” this whole thing together. If He were to “let go”, there would be no atoms, no protons and no quarks. He’s the One that created these forces and gave them instructions and maintains them and gives them “tech support”. Blind chance could NEVER account for these forces that work so seamlessly in our everyday lives. Listen to what Peter says:

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.” —2 Peter 3:7

The same word that created the heavens and the earth is the same word that keeps them in store until the day of judgment. God created it and He will recreate it someday. The word for “reserved” (gr. teros) means “to keep, watch, preserve”. God is keeping, watching and preserving the heavens and the earth. Does that not speak of every nucleus of every atom? Even Nehemiah says that God preserves the heavens, the earth and all the things in them (Nehemiah 9:6).

Here’s something else to think about. In 30AD Jesus, the Creator of this universe, was being crucified. But, even as He was dying at the hands of Roman soldiers, He was still holding their atoms together. To have spared Himself, Jesus would not have had to send “12 legions of angels” (Matt 26:54), He simply could have “let go” of the universe. End of story. But He didn’t. He went through with it, holding together the atoms of the cross, the nails and even the people who mocked him. And even in this age, when I sin against God, He is still holding my atoms together. What grace God continually gives us!

Sometimes unbelievers (even Christians) think that God cannot enter His own universe. “It would be too huge of a miracle”, they say. The universe itself is a miracle! Not just the fact that it exists, but that it keeps on existing.

So, can God enter this miracle called “the universe”? He doesn’t have to enter it; He’s already around in the midst of it, holding it together.



Even if you do not believe in God, what is holding us together?..................I think I will lean on a deity.... (QUOTE)

WOW!

great post...nj2day ... OT's head hurts after that one... noobfun, help OT out on that one....whew! that was awesome!

Sorry to make your head hurt......................