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Is Not Conforming To Society BAD?

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posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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I just talked to my mother, who informed because of my "attitude", I am bad, and because my son is like me, he too is a bad boy.

I myself question everything, ESPECIALLY authority. In mother's world, this makes one bad. She refuses to even hear me explain that this is a [positive attribute, especially in my child, as it requires actual Thinking, versus blind sheepism acceptance of societal norms.

I cannot even begin to tell you how awful this made me feel. I am NOT bad, just because I do not toe the mainstream line. She told me my ideas are crazy, and I have not grown up enough to be serious about anything, all due to my bullheaded nonconformist thought.

I think the conspiracy here is that growing up, the government had an easier time indoctrinating people to toe the governement line(my parents era, I am 39, they are twenty some odd yrs older than me). But is it really any different now?

How in the world do you explain that it is not bad to question your government or anything else?

Does anyone else have this problem with your family? I don't even want to go to christmas now.

Honestly I think our government is still doing a wonderful job keeping its sheeple in line, all I know is my mother's viewpoint seems to be more prevalent than mine.
The sad thing is I do NOT try and shove it down her throat, but gently explain myself, to no avail. Its like a brick wall.

So, is not conforming to society bad? How does my nonconformist thinking hurt her, and why does it garner such a visceral response in my mother(or your relatives?)? This is bothering me, I would love some feedback.




posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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Depends on how you don't conform. If you pick up a chainsaw, turn it on and slit ten peoples' throats for a laugh, this is probably not good conformity. That point is more pertinent than it seems, leaders are terrified of this.
There are two ways to address this fear, one is to educate and empower people to be considerate for others, but this costs cash and many who rule are also rich and don't want to pay the tax. So the other way to do it is keep people ignorant and in fear of them, so make people 'bad' for not conforming to this myth to keep them in their place, to look up to these people with 'authority' (power).

And yeah, I've been made 'bad' at points for not conforming to my family's norms.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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No, conforming to society is not bad. I question a lot of things as well. People call me a rebel for doing it but hey that's what I am. It all depends on how you choose not to conform to society! Me? I am an anarchist at heart. I have a lot of anarchist views and most people I know just get used to it. I don't think that confirming to society is bad at all. Conforming to society is worse than being a noncomformer. If you just believe everything you're told you don't get a chance to show the real you! That's why you question. You question the foundations of society and you question what is going on. That's what makes you YOU! If you became a conformer you wouldn't be you and you would be just like the rest of them.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


I have the same kind of issues with my mother, except they center much more on religion than society, in fact I made a thread about it.

I can sypathize with you completely, because it is a difficult situation to be it. Normally I would be outspoken about what I beleive in but I want to hold back to spare her feelings and the squabbles that would result, which is frustrating.

Just remember that ultimately, it is your choice how you raise your son, and you should NOT let her guilt you into changing your approach no matter what. Just explain to her that you respect her opinions but you hold different ideas.

You do NOT owe it to your parents to conform to what they beleive, because they raised you, you are a separate person from them. Neither do you owe your mother an appology for your opinions if she can't come to terms with that.

And don't try to "wake her up" if she doesn't want to be, recognize that some people truly need to be sheeple, because they can't handle anything else, and no matter what you throw at them, they won't wake up.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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A few quotes for you.

Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory. - Leonardo da Vinci

"They must find it difficult...
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
Rather than truth as the authority."
-G. Massey

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts. -Albert Einstein

The truth will set you free - Jesus

Basically, trust your own understandings so long as you actually do understand. Seek the truth, always question and do things as you see fit.

But part of understanding is also being honest with yourself. The first step to wisdom is being honest, and if you can't be honest with yourself and your own shortcomings(we all have them) then you can't make the right choices.

And an authority figure trying to make you conform is not in itself justification for our actions. I mean, I'm not going to conform myself when it comes to just blindly accepting authority and doing things. You won't see me waving the flag around and supporting wars, or the economic slavery of the fed. But I do conform when it comes to not murdering people, or stealing from people etc.

Hope that makes sense and helps.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Also, sometimes parents tell their kids to do things from their own lessons. So they could be right if they say you are wrong. But here is where most parents come up short, they don't give understanding on why, instead they go for the authoritative way of "Because I said so". And you can bet they aren't going to listen to that, just as you don't. So when it comes to your own kids, give them understanding instead of authority is what you can learn from this experience.

My parents told me so many things they ended up being right about. But I never listened because they never really told me why, just don't do it because I said so.

When you have to learn a lesson the hard way it's because you didn't have the understanding needed before it.

Also, maybe ask your mom to give you understanding and reasons why she says these things, and then if it's just a "because authority says so", tell her thats not good enough. There has to be a good reason and understanding for it. And then when you have understanding, you can make your own choice on if it's good understandings or not.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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Hello Tater. Welcome to the world of the bad people. If You are bad for thinking out of the little box the government has set before us then I've been bad all my life and plan to stay that way.

I don't understand your mothers thinking because I must be close to her age as my eldest child is 40 yrs old. Her mind set seems to be like my parents were.

I am a nonconformist. At the age of 7 months I started walking, stopped drinking milk at 9 months and began a long life of rebellion.

Don't stop questioning. Take nothing for granted. Be the captain of your ship and sail wherever you want to go always seeking truth.

It's people like you that make a difference in our world. Don't settle for average. Go the extra mile.

My biggest fear is that I'll one day become normal. That is very remote as I have raised my children and grandchildren to question life and have taught them how to survive and hopefully they will continue to live a full and exciting life.

Normal is so boring.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 05:15 PM
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I'd definitely agree with the ones above, for the most part.


I'll also add in that I, myself, have experienced what you're talking about, with the added benefit of finally, after rational talks, was able to get my mother to see certain truths about the ways she had been thinking and raised up to be. We have a wonderful relationship, now, and can have really good discussions on any topic.

Saying that to give you some hope. My mom and I went through some serious hell with it all, but my being calm and rational with it all, I think, is what broke through to her in the end. She realized that she didnt "raise no heathen", like I had heard her say to me once too often.

instead, she realizes that she raised someone who is capable of standing on their own, and to hold strong against even the toughest odds. In the end, she realizes just how strong I turned out to be, and is glad for it.


As the others above have said, don't let these things hurt you. I know it does, and that can sound superficial, but try really hard not to take it personally. Realize that there are some people out there, including ones who are extremely close to us, who just can NOT "un-conform". It is too deeply ingrained into their mindsets and entire psychology. And they can NOT, under any circumstances, put themselves into the place of someone who can do that. Unable to empathize in any way. That is not a fault of yours, it is theirs, and that kind of psychology really is unhealthy.

Yours IS.


Remember, as well, that many people who are of that older generation, by a large degree, lived in a time when things changed much more slowly than they do now, and that affected how their mind became set, as well. You're about the same age as I am, and my parents are of a similar generation to your mother; mine are a bit older,, but still, same generational line, in essence.

A lot of folks from that time are just incapable of keeping up with the massive amount of changes that occur these days. Of course some may argue that things changed just as rapidly back then, and that may be, but our PERCEPTIONS of the changes are now much more than they were then, especially since the advent of the internet.


Anyhow.. point is, just bear with it, and realize that she is doing nothing more than some skeptics you encounter elsewhere may react like. The only difference is, it's your mom, not some random stranger on the internet, or a friend, or something. And that causes the perception of the hurt to be that much more. The words and the jabs and arguments against "your ways" are one and the same. Only difference is who is saying it.

So take into yourself the same attitude that you would have towards her, as you would for anyone else who says the same. Acknowledge and move on.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Jomina]



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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What is conformation anyways? Isn't it just doing something that has no reason other than to fit in with those around you? What is admirable about doing things so that you fit in...it's like a high school popularity contest. I am all for non-conformation, and applaud you standing up for yourself against your own family. And I think most people on this site are non-conformists to some degree since by going here we can question things that in most places would be considered unpatriotic, or impolite, or not politically correct to discuss or that could possibly even cause harm to people in some ways...but conformists are controlled by fear and so are trapped in a reality where they have to conform to their idea of society or else.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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Just thought of a retort that you could use on your mom, as well...


"If my friends jumped off a bridge, would you want me to, too?"


Or pull it on her.. "Mom if your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it?"



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

I myself question everything, ESPECIALLY authority. In mother's world, this makes one bad. She refuses to even hear me explain that this is a [positive attribute, especially in my child, as it requires actual Thinking, versus blind sheepism acceptance of societal norms.




You should be ashamed of yourself -- questioning the conformist viewpoint.

After all, these conforming men and women have allowed our government to assume a state of perpetual war, killing a million innocent Iraqis and utterly destroyed our liberty. These conformists have allowed newspeak to reach previously undreamed-of levels .... all while ignoring capital crimes like kidnapping, torture and murder of detainees. In the future, these conformists will join one big happy family when they receive their microchip.

Can't you see the error of your ways? Don't you really want to come back into the herd .....er....ah.....patriotic masses?

Seriously tho; the conformists can [expletive deleted] themselves.



posted on Nov, 30 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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No, I don't think it's bad at all. I really think it is good, in ways! I've always been a little "anti", and sort of a rebel. I think it's good and healthy to "think outside the box" and not conform, because, there are so many flaws in society! What can I say, I am a product of my generation, which has always had problems with conforming. We're the ones who will yell and scream and stomp, if we think they're doing it wrong! I think that most of the posters on this board are somewhat "anti", and not willing to just accept something, because we've been told to, or because it is someone else's opinion, or because someone made up some silly rule. Also, the "politically correct" thing drives me bonkers", when someone tries to force it on you.



posted on Dec, 1 2008 @ 03:07 AM
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Thank you all for your replies! I am so relieved to hear others have struggled with this too. I am lucky I found a friend at work who likes my alternative topics(he is a buff too), so at least I have someone in real life to talk to about it. I guess I will just quit talking to her about stuff like our future, and the economy, and NWO, and chemtrails, and space weapons and organized religion, because we differ on each topic. She wont entertain my thoughts or ideas on ancient religion, she ridicules them and refuses to listen!

If I am so blessed, I have a good thirty or forty years to study everything I want to touch on. She thinks I am bad for this!! I do not trust our government, she thinks I am crazy and since my son shares my views, he is bad and ruined(he is almost 18, makes straight A's and is a very good young man, I love him and am so proud of him!). To hear her say this broke my heart! How can people be so closed minded? Just because we believe differently should not make me or my kid bad.



posted on Dec, 26 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


The reason for some is because the truth would be like a 12 gauge shell in the mind. For them they are only safe with there visors on both sides of there tunnel visioned eyes. They couldnt handle the truth, most cant. Im in constant trouble because i go against the grain. I have to understand everything on the deepest level. You start to wonder whats wrong and finally realize its gonna kill you. If you cant be yourself well theres not much use for you here, except maybe as a slave. Yeah theres nothing like the wonderful freedom of the usa.........What is exactly free still eludes me. Its a catchy phrase though well thought out to brainwash our children and ourselves exactly like the christians try to contain your mind by convincing you that if you dont join there cult that your going to hell to burn. Nice options . Unfortunately for my comforts sake i have not thus far been able to honestly say i believe any. If you figure out a way to make yourself believe everything like some idiot that just goes with whatever somebody told him was true let me know. It would sure save alot of grief on my part. Im tired of being in so much trouble for being incapable of reform.



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 

Hi,
Like yourself, I do not see eye to eye with my parents, the are very conformist and conventional and after many years I have learnt to limit what I discuss with them. Otherwise It just gets in the way of having a relationship with them. This does sadden me as I am not fully my true self with them, however the alternative is just friction and disapproval.

I think basically society is made up of conventional people i.e. people who follow convention (the norm), and unconventional people i.e. people who question what is the accepted norm. Otherwise society would not function if everyone was unwilling to accept authority , and we all benefit from that. However if no-one ever questioned authority, or the accepted way of doing things, society would never evolve, and we all benefit from that too. So things balance each other out.

So although you can't be expected to accept your mothers viewpoint on subjects which you care about and think are important, its important to remember that without people like her we wouldn't benefit from living in as stable a society as we do, and she has her place. Its not her fault that the 'norm' she is fed is dangerous, manipulated and serves the needs of some dark powers as well as keeping things stable. However such people are usually terrified of thinking for themselves, they have no trust in their own opinions and need someone else's approval for a point of view. So it is this fear that drives her disapproval of your free mind. Just be glad you haven't grown up to be someone like that!

Obviously when it comes to acting upon your principles then you have to follow your heart if it is something you really think is important, especially if it involves your son, but as far as day to day conversations is concerned then it is down to respect.

Certainly don't feel bad for your own views and those of your son. I too have children aged 16 and 18, and they have open questioning minds. I am proud as I feel I have helped them grow and have the best skills to live the rest of their lives and reach their full potential. It is certainly not BAD to question and think outside the accepted norm of your mothers world, but every time you do, you are questioning and threatening the fundamental principles she holds, so the respectful thing to do is avoid these conversations.



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