How did 'peace' get turned into 'war'

If Christ taught peace-how did he get tied to a book (the OT) which displayed a God of War?

If Christ showed us to turn the other cheek when the right gets struck, how do we justify protecting a ONE land such as Israel through actions of war?

If Christ taught unity, how is it that God would have a special land?

If Christ taught we must not fight back, even in our own defense, how is it that millions are ready to bare arms when it comes to Israel?

Could there be a teaching left out of the Bible? Could it be that the Father of Christ never asked for a special land, never claimed a special people? Could the tie of Jesus to the OT be misleading the masses with allowing them to still justify war? Millions are ready to fight for a one land, Israel, but the land we should be wanting to protect is EVERY LAND ON EARTH.

Did God really intend to separate us through religion? Did god really intend to separate us through a special land, a chosen land, a chosen people?

What if separation is not of God. What if God always wanted unity and always would of taught us peace and love between all lands and all people?

IF we all go to war over Israel...are we doing the works of God????

Jesus showed us, even when his own life was going to be taken....we must act in a righteous way, peace and love, no force, no pride...only humbleness in knowing you and Thee are ONE and true eternal life can only be given through living as Christ lived, even when it comes to self defense...remain righteous.

I feel we are in times that the majority of the world is on the lookout for a peace bringer...and its not because they believe that peace on Earth can be accomplished, its because they see this as a sing of a anti-christ. Truly, no peace can not be found on Earth because the masses are ready to fight and kill the one that brings this new age. Im sure back then when Christ was killed, some thought of this peace keeper as a BAD man...is this what will happen again....we will see this person trying to bring unity to the world as a BAD man and try to kill him??

To those that are awaiting the 'end of the world'....IF GOD CREATED A PLANET WITH A HUMAN SPECIES ON IT...WOULD GOD WANT SEPARATION ON THIS PLANET OR UNITY? WHAT KIND OF WORLD WOULD GOD HOPE FOR? WOULD IT NOT BE A PLANET THAT COULD FIND A WAY TO LIVE IN PEACE, TO LIVE IN A UNITED WAY, TO LIVE WITH AWARENESS THAT WE ARE ALL EQUAL....THAT WE ARE ALL ONE?

I dont believe God ever taught man to separate themselves and to separate the lands. I dont believe God ever saw a certain people as special or chosen. I dont believe God wants to dwell in a man made temple in ONE land, I think God wants to dwell within the REAL LIFE temple...which is man, and which is every man in every land of every race.

To me, teachings like this of separation and special chosen ones is not teachings of Thee Most High.

I present these thoughts not to bash religions, but to awaken people...awaken my other selves....this life is about unity, peace, and love. Not about separation, hate and pride.

Peace to all,
LV

I have wondered this to, it's the hypocrisy of most religions I suppose.
The ego of I'm right and your wrong, even though neither side has much proof apart from some old books.

Most of Israel's population is Jewish and they only believe in the old testament and are not interested in Christ, if they were then they would be Christians.

A couple of questions for the OP.

1. OP who is WE? It is certainly not me.

IF we all go to war over Israel...are we doing the works of God????

2. If the bible was right then there would only be one world religion; the religion of truth. Why isn't everyone following Christ's good example?

I use the term 'we' loosely to show that its possible that the actions of ONE man can reflect all of us as a unit. I of course would not go to war or try to strike someone down but I also believe that we all are a united consciousness, we all have to forgive the wrong actions of our fellow man in order to move on from a mistake.

I think the whole reason why we dont have a ONE united idea of what to believe is the bonding of two different teachings about two different powers in ONE book. The OT is to me, a very dangerous book because it justifies killings and blood shed and separation. I believe the OT is to blame for much of the worlds problems with mankind not seeing each other as equals.

As soon as spirituality gets labeled as a 'religion' the effect from the cause is 'separation'.

LV

I do think each persons thoughts and actions are weighed, but somehow, I also see units such as nations weighed also, and possibly even a weighing of the world as a WHOLE.

LV

Because the bible is lies,it is immoral,unjust,it contradicts itself on many occasions and is the perfect tool for corrupt evil men to do as they wish.Nothing but a badly written story by men who wished for control.

The Bible holds much history about a people without a land, a people becoming a nation. If the ego in oneself is prideful, then a prideful entity will be your guide. I feel that many in the OT were a prideful people, there for their guidance was a prideful entity. The Bible has history mixed in with the spirituality of the people of that time.

I know it may sound like I knock the Bible full force, but I dont. I weigh it and find both the light and the dark. I dont feel God can be both...light and dark, good and bad, hateful and peaceful. I feel the story is laid just how it should be laid...it teaches us what is good and what is wrong. With that teachings, we can see where God was and was not.

I do think some scriptures were added to the NT so they fit with the OT better and I think many important scriptures were left out, because they were scriptures that liberated a soul without a need of a priest or church.


If God is both, then God is duality, which I dont find Thee to be so.

Just thoughts,
LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Hey there

I have not been avoiding your post. I have been doing research all day to help refresh my memory on some key points. I do have a response but it will have to wait until tomorrow. I need to get it all right in my head and pray about it before I answer your post.


Love ya,
Mom

I ask you this: Can there be peace without War?

In the Hindu religion, there was a great war called the Mahabharata in which the God Krishna says that you must fight for your rights...........


Fight for Land? How can we fight for something that is not ours. Who owns land in this world? Does your property die when you die? The only thing you own in this world is your Soul.

People waste their entire life working and dreaming to acquire property and riches which they will never own. The day all Humans will realize this and renounce this material world and greediness then and only then will there be true peace in the world.

Christ must of had faith in love conquering all things because that is how he conquered many, even the ones that others considered a disgrace, a bad seed, Christ showed them love and acceptance. Christ never become the leader to lead others in war, which many rejected him for this very reason.

Yes, humanity is full of themselves. Instead of thinking that everyone has a birth right from God, many take it as their own responsibility to claim that only a certain few have the rightful birth right to be here and to live in a chosen land.

Peace can never come while we have the masses awaiting a wrathful war. Which is my point to the post....how can it be that God demands bloodshed but Jesus teachings say that who ever goes against this commandment will be judged. There is no righteousness in killing another man. Who are we to say that that man will not one day come to God is we didnt take his life.

Peace,
LV

I believe God makes a way for ALL, through recycling and regeneration...many times over, however long it takes.

reply to post by rattan1



Reminds me of a scripture that I love

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasure in heaven , where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.


It is things like riches that cause humans to think more with the ego self (material self) then with their spirit.

LV

War started with SIN ...even the angels are warring eachother ...it had to have started with the fall of satan when he rebelled and all the angels that rebelled with him ....he declared war on God and the people of the earth.

Someday there will be war no more ....
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


There is a reason for everything Leo ....
Surely you can see that ..

I always wonder why we have to discipline children ..why cant they all just be born as good little boys and girls ...why do we have to deal with satan ..why didnt God just wipe him out when he rebelled ..etc etc ..
Deep down though I KNOW why and I see the whole picture of WHY some things have to happen the way they do ...and why we do have to go through bad things and good things etc ...in order to actually learn something ...
Proverbs and Ecclesiastics are great books dealing with alot of questions you may have about WHY alot of things happen like they do ..


PS that peaceful unity time is coming though Leo ...just not yet ...and you can rest assured it will be a lasting one ..where Jesus will reign supreme .
The one the world will offer is not a real peace ...so dont believe it for one minute ....they have an agenda ...

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Grandma

Hello Mother,
I can hear it now....*smiles*

Sins are only forgiven by blood atonement and if we dont obey then God does show us wrath and rids of these souls who had trouble fighting temptations here on earth.

Im going to tell you right now, before you make a long post...that God is patient and loving and by acting in mans evil ways and say its in the name of God is exactly what the Old Serpent is hoping many will do.
WHY??
Because this leads man astray from Gods nature, its exactly what the Serpent wants. He wants us to make war, he wants us to separate, he wants us to believe Gods hands are full of blood from killings that he ordered man to do (because it blinds us from Gods true loving nature)....he has even set up in the end where many will await a man of peace, only to accuse him to be of Satan. Which, in return, again, we dont accept the peace bringer because many will follow the Revelations in thinking that the peace bringer is a fool, a lie....its just what Satan wants. The Old Serpent has pulled roll over the eyes of many, by claiming he was God and all the acts that went against commandments were of God. He even set up a future war just to make sure we miss the mark of 'acting in a righteous way'. The simple fact that the OT gives God a name should be a huge red flag...THEE IS UNNAMEABLE.

many are ready to act unrighteously...thinking this is what God wants.

You can quote all the scriptures you want....I will not believe that God ever led any one in war to kill other men. WHY?? Because God is hope, mercy and grace. God isnt even capable of anything that would be unholy....even though Thee is God...Thee does not become unholy one day then go back to being holy the next.

The Bible shows 2 different natures. I believe with all my heart that God has only one nature...which is love. There are no exceptions. Thee does not change. You can quote things to bring understanding to why God acted differently in the OT and NT....but it still shows two different natures. I dont find this to be a mistake, I find it a way that God left us to view both seeds in this world, evil and good, Old Serpent and Thee Most High, dark and light.

Love
LV

reply to post by Simplynoone


With out the Adversary, we couldn't understand true goodness. Both are laid before us because we have the ability of discernment.

In any material world, there will be sorrow, harsh lessons, hate, pride and greed....it is the effect from the cause of spirit coming into darkness (material). Its a given...we blame it on Satan and Adam and Eve....but truly, these things come with the package of a physical world. A physical world works by a natural order, this natural order comes with the darkness of the world....death, greed, pride, hate. Satan does not cause man to hate, man hates because he is prideful and greedy. Its the issues of that soul that the soul must deal with about oneself.

Not saying Satan doesn't exists, but we give too much credit to him for the natural orders of things that go wrong. Man needs to look in the mirror....the killings and bloodshed is not of God. But oh it pleases Satan that many think God needs blood for our sins.

You can justify this all you like. But its time for man to stop passing the buck to Satan.

Peace always,
LV

Leo then what about Nature itself ? There is certainly a violent nature in nature (All the Elements can be violent) ...Where did it come from ?
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Isa 45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.


Be careful LEO >....about striving with our maker ...(you would not want to be in Jobs shoes would you ?God asked him just who does he think he is ..and did he create all that he sees or did GOD and if GOD did then he had a very good reason for everything ...)
Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! [Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Isa 45:10 Woe unto him that saith unto [his] father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

And the Lord Jesus will also war against satan and his legions of demons ..he is also going to fight with is enemies ..and end the war once and for all ....
So do not think that Jesus is just a passive hippy walking around with a peace sign ..

Isa 42:13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

Isa 42:14 I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, [and] refrained myself: [now] will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

With out the Adversary, we couldn't understand true goodness. Both are laid before us because we have the ability of discernment.

In any material world, there will be sorrow, harsh lessons, hate, pride and greed....it is the effect from the cause of spirit coming into darkness (material). Its a given...we blame it on Satan and Adam and Eve....but truly, these things come with the package of a physical world. A physical world works by a natural order, this natural order comes with the darkness of the world....death, greed, pride, hate. Satan does not cause man to hate, man hates because he is prideful and greedy. Its the issues of that soul that the soul must deal with about oneself.

Not saying Satan doesn't exists, but we give too much credit to him for the natural orders of things that go wrong. Man needs to look in the mirror....the killings and bloodshed is not of God. But oh it pleases Satan that many think God needs blood for our sins.

You can justify this all you like. But its time for man to stop passing the buck to Satan.

Peace always,
LV

And do tell then where Pride and Hate come from ?
And what about the spirit world Leo ? Do you not believe there are other realms other than ours ? Like the one where God dwells ? ....the word says there is a war going on there too which is the only reason why that war is on us ...we are what the war is over ...satan wants us .what matters the most to GOD ...US PEOPLE >.he created ...it is a battle between good and evil ...and GOD will win this one ..so dont worry .........

God did not promise peace yet ......there can be NO PEACE till satan and all his followers including MEN OF EARTH who chose evil over good ...are all taken care of .(and yes that includes the extreme religious evil doers of all religions) ...that was why GOD sent his son ..saying ..look I am gonna change things around there ..but I wont until you have this chance to choose...between HIM or the EaRTH (The earth that this time will BURN UP ) ..hurry up and choose though because I am coming back soon and will end this mess once and for all and then you will have peace ...


Leo can you think of a better idea ? I dont think so ..
There is nothing that can be done to make everyone change ..they are set in their ways and only looking out for number one ....what do you suggest God do about making them all stop doing their wickedness ? And do things his way (which they dont even want to know or hear) ...


[edit on 30-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Your more then welcome to quote the OT....which is something I only follow for history of a misleading mass of people.

and yes, Mother Nature is wrathful....but it is a part of her evolution. Its how the Earth breaths...through volcanoes, through storms, all of the elements of the earth have a process....its not from Satan, its how the Earth works, just like any other planet.

We see storms on Jupiter, we see volcanoes on other planets....its how they evolve, its a natural process. I dont blame Satan for a hurricane, I accept it as a process that the Earth can not help. Without the process, Earth would not live. Earth recycles herself over and over, Earth replenishes herself, over and over.

The holy spirit replenishes us also...but in a spiritual way, a holy way, a righteous way...that is why it takes so long, that is why God didnt end it all, the process must take place. We would not receive the growth we are to receive for our soul without the bad things in this world.

The reason this process is sooo long for our souls growth is because God is patient in allowing us to come to thee out of love.

To raise arms against another man is no act of a righteous man.

I dont speak these things blindly....I speak them from my spirit, the spirit that Thee has given me. I in no way feel Im offending God...I feel Im defending Thee in works thee did not do.

best intentions,
LV

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Your more then welcome to quote the OT....which is something I only follow for history of a misleading mass of people.

and yes, Mother Nature is wrathful....but it is a part of her evolution. Its how the Earth breaths...through volcanoes, through storms, all of the elements of the earth have a process....its not from Satan, its how the Earth works, just like any other planet.

We see storms on Jupiter, we see volcanoes on other planets....its how they evolve, its a natural process. I dont blame Satan for a hurricane, I accept it as a process that the Earth can not help. Without the process, Earth would not live. Earth recycles herself over and over, Earth replenishes herself, over and over.

The holy spirit replenishes us also...but in a spiritual way, a holy way, a righteous way...that is why it takes so long, that is why God didnt end it all, the process must take place. We would not receive the growth we are to receive for our soul without the bad things in this world.

The reason this process is sooo long for our souls growth is because God is patient in allowing us to come to thee out of love.

To raise arms against another man is no act of a righteous man.

I dont speak these things blindly....I speak them from my spirit, the spirit that Thee has given me. I in no way feel Im offending God...I feel Im defending Thee in works thee did not do.

best intentions,
LV

I asked where PRIDE AND HATE came from ?
And about the elements ..are you saying you believe that God did not also create the elements ?

Man was created in Gods image and man has all those things in him ....satan was created by God as well now please do tell me where those human emotions could have come from ?

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Thee Most High does not force. So yes, I see another way. If a soul allows his light to be blown out in this dark world, then yes, I believe that soul is like a flame blown out in the wind. If a soul strives to live as Thee would live if in the flesh (such as our Christ)...then eternal life will be theirs.

What Im saying is that the prophecies in the Bible LEAD US TO BECOME UNRIGHTEOUS...because it teachings there is a chosen land (which is separation) and which will lead many men into a bloody war to prove who is worthy and who is not.

We all would like to think there is a fast fix to rid Earth of evil doers. So we sit back and await the 'fix'. What if the fix falls on our shoulders. What if this final war is just another war and we all (bad and good) are still here?

Light will return to Thee, just like the seed returns to the Earth. Darkness will return to the material world, exactly where it came from.

Peace,
LV

reply to post by Simplynoone


Yes, God made the elements...but there is a undeniable reason for how the Earth works....everything has a process for life. Earths process for life is recycling. Back when man was not on Earth, Earth was most wrathful, creating herself into the beauty she is now....the wrath of her in the past was not because she is evil or God wanted her to be perceived as evil....its a physical world, which has a process of life.

Earth doesnt do things to harm man on purpose, Earth follows her natural process of change...that is all it is.

A soul follows a process of change just the same, this process sometimes means one must experiences a loss, a guilt, anger, greed, pride in order to appreciate the gifts, humbleness, acceptance and forgiveness, and true thanks. It is no mistake that bad things happen...because we learn the most from the hardest of times, we learn the most from the catastrophes.

LV

[edit on 30-11-2008 by LeoVirgo]