And about the Bible...it is actually my fav. book.

I read many books...but the Bible is still my main study.

You cant find another material with the balance of both natures (dark and light, flesh and spirit) so prevalent and with much wisdom and knowledge. It can give the keys for the tasks...most defiantly.

But it can be a dangerous book as well.

IMPO of course, always, with respect
LV

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
And about the Bible...it is actually my fav. book.

I read many books...but the Bible is still my main study.

You cant find another material with the balance of both natures (dark and light, flesh and spirit) so prevalent and with much wisdom and knowledge. It can give the keys for the tasks...most defiantly.

But it can be a dangerous book as well.

IMPO of course, always, with respect
LV

I couldn't agree with you more on this one. The killing in the name of religion far exceeds any killings God has performed.

We should be tolerant and forgiving, not using the Bible to exterminate those who don't believe in it, or don't believe it the way we do.

God Bless

Originally posted by B.A.C.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
And about the Bible...it is actually my fav. book.

I read many books...but the Bible is still my main study.

You cant find another material with the balance of both natures (dark and light, flesh and spirit) so prevalent and with much wisdom and knowledge. It can give the keys for the tasks...most defiantly.

But it can be a dangerous book as well.

IMPO of course, always, with respect
LV

I couldn't agree with you more on this one. The killing in the name of religion far exceeds any killings God has performed.

We should be tolerant and forgiving, not using the Bible to exterminate those who don't believe in it, or don't believe it the way we do.

God Bless

Think about what you said. 'We should be tolerant and forgiving'. Let me try to make a point here. Do you believe this because the book tells you so....or does your deepest humbled gut tell you, this is your divine nature?

Think about that...

If this is your little light of divine nature in you...can it change? Will that little light of wisdom, to be tolerant and forgiving change? Or may it only seem to change in others, being hidden, covered, by the wrath and conflict of the spirit being in the flesh?

If we, in our deepest nature, feel we should be tolerant and forgiving....is this Gods nature? Does it change? Is it consistent? If so...mabey it makes a way, mabey hope is the order...mabey nothing is wasted but all is used, somehow, someway, for Thee.

Mabey God is so tolerant and forgiving....that Thee makes a way for all. Mabey God is a unconditional piece of us we can never shed, no matter how hard some try...they will see...when in the presence of Thee...to deny Thee is to deny themselves. Which I would find impossible....so a way is then made, once again....for that soul to raise its vibration/spirit whatever you want to say....through being humbled, forgiving, not jealous, not prideful, loving all as themselves....seeing what Christ meant that his body is our body...just as though your body is mine and mine yours...they are all of Thee. The self eventually....on through the heavens....in the end....doesnt exists. When one grasps this.....no matter what, they cant kill another....even in defense of their own life. It would blemish their light to do so...after knowing we really arent meant to fight for this life. There are 2 types here I believe...some are here for learning...some are here at will...to shine the lights through the forests.

Peace to you
LV

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Miriam...you have to ask yourself....are these works of a divine nature. What good does these impulsive acts do a divine nature???

Does God or a divine nature act with primal impulses...like we humans act??? If so, then what is the difference between us and Thee that makes the divine and us not divine. These are impulsive behaviors that psychologist actually counsel humans to work on and control. Mabey God needs a little counseling then.

my point is, your the first person to ask this question. alot of people (especially in this thread) seem to operate on the assumption that killing is ALWAYS wrong no matter what the circumstance, they never explore the possibility that there might be times when taking a life away is necessary or even just.

but addressing your question, what makes you think that any of these deaths were impulsive on god's part?

What makes these acts of killing impulsive?

Just go re read the reasons for the killings. Anger is usually footing the bill for the act.

Anger brings impulsive behaviors. A act before thinking.

Dont you think its funny how much we see god in the OT regret something...making man, bringing the flood....those are some really big actions to regret!

Even when the flood came, to wipe off the 'bad seeds'....THE BAD SEED WAS STILL IN THE EARTH....something is a BIG amiss there.

I stopped allowing myself to believe such stories as a divine perfection....each to their own....but I am very peaceful now that I have changed my view point of things. If the wrathful god brings you peace....then it must work for some.

I choose hope, mercy and a way for all...unconditional love making even the darkness have a purpose for Thee....which is something for the light to shine through and something for us to see the difference in the two natures.

Would we know good if all we knew was darkness? How can you know both, weigh both...without both? Its a part of the purpose, its meant to be. There needs no intervention...no changing of languages with a moment, no flood that does not follow a order of nature....its not God sitting and making choices and trying to make up for the wrong choices he made...like he is trying to fix something wrong he did.....This is not how it works.

We have to be careful not to confuse the rulers with God. The rulers are not the divine life force within all things. The divine life force is not a being sitting on a throne enjoying the savor of blood....and can not be placed in a box...Thee is not jealous and is not prideful. Thee just is and this is all Thee needs...the power comes from Thee just being Thee. Thee is what it is....which is the power in Yahweh claiming...I Am what I Am.

Ever hear all the ancient stories about a divine name or tree or star seed being stolen...containing the power of life itself? I believe this is what Yahweh represents....power in a name...power in knowing...the simpleness to God is that it is what it is...place a little fear in people that they are walking the wrong path and they will be tortured forever and ever for their wrong doings and bingo...you have the masses in your hands.

This is a test....I repeat...this is a test. A test of seeing who will discern.

Testing...123

Just a little humor on a very serious note

My best 2 cents...which aint worth much these days, if anything at all
LV

Originally posted by miriam0566
my point is, your the first person to ask this question. alot of people (especially in this thread) seem to operate on the assumption that killing is ALWAYS wrong no matter what the circumstance, they never explore the possibility that there might be times when taking a life away is necessary or even just.

I believe sometimes, as in, once in a blue moon, it is justified. Nonetheless, how do you explain some as justified? Just an example,

Numbers 15 (King James translation)
35 "And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."

He picked up some sticks, and the Lord commanded he be pummelled to death with rocks. He couldnt even kill the man peacefully!

You could argue, God made it a felony to work on this arbitrary day which he chose to commemorate the day he fell lethargic from all his creating, but then it depends what you define as work. He picked up sticks...
Justified? Only if you believe the punishment fit the crime. And I truly dont believe it did.

Dont even get me started on the Flood. He didnt even bother to save the good people before the genocide.

Originally posted by Ridhya
I believe sometimes, as in, once in a blue moon, it is justified. Nonetheless, how do you explain some as justified? Just an example,

Numbers 15 (King James translation)
35 "And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp."

He picked up some sticks, and the Lord commanded he be pummelled to death with rocks. He couldnt even kill the man peacefully!

You could argue, God made it a felony to work on this arbitrary day which he chose to commemorate the day he fell lethargic from all his creating, but then it depends what you define as work. He picked up sticks...
Justified? Only if you believe the punishment fit the crime. And I truly dont believe it did.

this is a classic line of reasoning.

first off the man knew the law. he would not be able to say that he was ignorant of it.

the man knew that this law came from god himself. remember that when the assembly first arrived at the mountain god spoke to the assembly himself. the people were so scared that they insisted moses speak for him. so if god himself says ¨dont work on the sabbath¨, you dont work on the sabbath.

third, the consequences were clear. the man knew what the law said about working on the sabbath.

so superficially you can say well the man was put to death for picking up sticks, but thats not it. he was put to death for knowingly rebelling against god. he knew the command but choose to ignore it, even after agreeing to follow it.

adam´s sin was the same. the law wasnt hard to follow, just dont touch the fruit. but he decided of his own free will to break god´s command.

Dont even get me started on the Flood. He didnt even bother to save the good people before the genocide.

he did, they were the ones who built the ark, remember?

and there is nothing in the account that says that others werent allowed to join them. it wasnt until after the door was shut and the rain started that people actually took noah seriously.

the some odd 40 years it took for noah to build the thing was plenty of time for the ¨good¨people to make preparations for saving their hide. the point is, they chose to ignore god´s vehicle of salvation.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by miriam0566]

A very narrow minded kinda of way to look at divinity.

So where is the mercy, the love, the forgiveness, the patients....the hope??

We live in a world that we cant see God, it is not obvious he is there....he tells us through a book to not save up things of material.....but since he is 'not obvious' to all....he punish those who have a hard time here accepting a story in a book.

Adam is NOT ONE MAN. Man kind was not 'created' out of nothing, with no mother, father, sperm, egg....it wasnt supernatural....as you are fantasizing it is Miriam.

knowledge can be dangerous....you can read the entire Bible and have knowledge, but one will lack wisdom if they dont understand....God does not act in those primal intervening ways.

I could assure you with my life, that what I tell you is truth. It would do no good though.

Just ask Thee....ask Thee if Thee did all of those things. If your heart is humbled, Thee will show you.

What would you believe without your book???

I dont give everyone a hard time...just the ones that I believe the Spirit is trying to reach and sees worthy of reaching at this time and age. When someone has a passion to know, to seek....these are the ones the Spirit will show things to.

What is the purpose of God being so demanding, do you bleive you will worship in heaven?

So its our choice....we have been warned what will happen if we dont 'listen' to the book and the orders.....and God will not understand....how hard it is to believe in something people cant even see....and God will not understand why so many couldn't accept him due to his forceful ways.

There are so many reasons why I feel that we are in more control of what we make for our afterlife....there is more work to do and more to learn, this life is not the last of our learning.

Thee understands how hard it is here, and will comfort those who seek. Just because you are convinced God is wrathful, can be angered, can be jeaous and has not mercy on the fact...THIS IS A HARD LIFE HERE....does not make it truth in any way.

The flood was IMPERFECT. It did not get rid of the bad seed. And did God not have hope for these people at all???????????????????????????????????

So what they didn't believe Noah.....WHO WOULD? My mother told me someone might have to build another ARK. Am I going to go out and start building and telling others....beware, God is coming with a flood!!! NO, I will not, and God understands these things. If God wanted or needed us to get swept away with supernatural things....dont you think Thee would of made this world a place where we can see supernatural things and make them obvious to us....instead of using logic in science, order in nature, reasonable cause and affects that we can explain and understand....

God is not primal in Thee's ways and orders. Its a function, a order, a nature....and above all, Thee is understanding of the hardships here. Thee will reteach, we will relearn....nothing is wasted....not even those bad souls you seek punishment and justice for so much.

You can disagree, and tell me where I am wrong, and tell others, GOD HAS WARNED YOU. But you bring no light to this dark place. You bring no hope to troubled souls.

Many are lost. Many follow others. Many follow the masses and the crowds, thinking they must be right.

In the end, you too will relearn...so no harm done really. Every path has meaning and things to learn from it....so I cant say its all bad.

Peace to you and yours
LV

I'm the biggest cereal killer out there!

Sorry I needed a tweeny weeny laugh.

This god we are talking about is a mindless murderer, more humanlike than a god, conjured up by a lost people since the last 2,000 years with a baggage containing hope and faith using the vehicle of new age religious dogma.
Including christians, muslim, sects, buddhists and the list goes on.
To be 'saved', these new age religious nuts have to believe in a murderous god to save them from themselves.

I wouldn't want to be saved in a sinking boat by this nutcase.

Karl 12 brought this to post how this murderous entity who ruled over the middle east (not the world)a few thousand years ago, written in a book called a bible and today reveals how this murderous god is more evil than this satan bloke.

The only thing the bible is handy for is starting campfires with and after a meal at camp is useful for toilet paper as the flora and fauna around the campsite is too precious to use.

Those who believe in this murderous nutcase and all his/her ramblings can
live in peace with themselves so long as they don't preach goodness and love by supporting this serial murdering god by referring to toilet paper.

Originally posted by B.A.C.

I don't believe what you believe, I've questioned things for many years, and it always leads me back to the Bible. I don't believe the Bible is of man, yes physically man put the pen to the paper, but God wrote it through those men. Again, that's MY belief, I respect yours as well, I just don't agree with it.

God Bless


Well this jo smith of the mormons told the world in the 1800's that the book of mormon was also written by a man with a pen, but god wrote through him also and many lost souls (13 million members) believe jo as well.
This suggests this book of mormon is a true work of god as well.

Seems like these books were written entirely by men.

Originally posted by miriam0566
first off the man knew the law. he would not be able to say that he was ignorant of it.

the man knew that this law came from god himself. remember that when the assembly first arrived at the mountain god spoke to the assembly himself. the people were so scared that they insisted moses speak for him. so if god himself says ¨dont work on the sabbath¨, you dont work on the sabbath.

Did you not read my whole post?? I repeat

You could argue, God made it a felony to work on this arbitrary day which he chose to commemorate the day he fell lethargic from all his creating

So yes, I know this.

(miriam):

he knew the command but choose to ignore it, even after agreeing to follow it.

My POINT was

but then it depends what you define as work. He picked up sticks...

Did he REALLY break the Sabbath? If Im at home relaxing, and I move the channel changer, do I call it work?
Maybe he enjoyed moving sticks and did it for fun?
I also repeat

He couldnt even kill the man peacefully!

Please address this next time!!
On the Flood:
(miriam):

he did, they were the ones who built the ark, remember?

So ONLY Noah and co. were good? In the entire world? They were without sin?

and there is nothing in the account that says that others werent allowed to join them. it wasnt until after the door was shut and the rain started that people actually took noah seriously.

They could have joined? Meaning that they were good enough to join?! So now you admit, good people died, because God didnt bother to tell them directly.

the some odd 40 years it took for noah to build the thing was plenty of time for the ¨good¨people to make preparations for saving their hide. the point is, they chose to ignore god´s vehicle of salvation.

It was also plenty of time for God to save the good people himself, or tell them directly (not make them rely on an old man's testimony).

If your arguments were an ark they woulda sunk long ago.