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Was the abrahamic god the worst serial killer in human history?

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posted on Dec, 1 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot
His universe, his rules. If you don't like it, make your own.


No, it's not 'his' universe, sorry. You presume you know the Source of Creation because someone wrote it in a book, or 'spirit' communicated it, or flat out told you? Wrong 'creator.' Each mighty being-consciousness is impelled to overwhelm lesser consciousneses (like political leaders, of course) into worship & obedience. Christians, and all religious fanatics (dogma-blinded), will never know Truth, but only blindness. Even if someone 'fixes' them upon reincarnation (which most don't believe in due to timely omission in certain texts), they will still remain 'the Lost' (within the Containment Field). Please study Oasphe for vivid descriptions of those attempting to correct these massive fanatics of their mindless dogmas: talk about true horror!


Originally posted by cosmicpixie
Anyway, to cut a long story short the original "gods" (Elohim, Annunaki) were extraterrestrial in origin and very much saw man as their property.


Nicely placed statement. Yes, whilst the christians & other religious followers will disagree, isn't it funny that many 'aliens' contactees are much the same (not all, I'm a contactee myself, but adhere to no dogma, merely archetype energies [formative], such as the circle, the triangle, the square, &c)...they will kill you for their beliefs while preaching peace and benevolence, violently.

Finally, let's not blame it all on 'god,' 'gods', whichever & whatever: man is at his roots a base animal (no argument here: study the records), knows it, revels in endless bloodshed (man, woman & child), and would rather watch tv or gamble or waste time than attempt to reprogram their own deadly genetic structure. It can be done, but would happily see the Earth turned to cinder & ash before changing themselves in earnest.

Of course, all statements are subject to exceptions. I don't accept the exceptions of those preaching delicious 'love & peace,' who at the same time maintain a hardline mindset (you know yourselves).

Wonderful revelations in this thread. I liked it. Forgive the generalizations regarding humanity; there must be exceptions, of course. Religious warriors, my arse.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by SS,Naga]




posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


you think 33 million is a big body count, well at armagedon the body count will number into the billions. God does not need to justify himself to anyone, though he does explain why in the bible. Basically he can do what he wants with us because he made us. If he says we sould not do certain things under pain of death then we are obliged to obey or die, simple.

About the children , well there will be millions of children killed at armagedon, no doubt crying whilst clinging to the mummy's. It is going to happen whether people agree with it or not. Nothing will stop it.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by SS,Naga
..they will kill you for their beliefs while preaching peace and benevolence, violently.


Interesting post!
I thought this quote was quite apt:

"Most men would kill the truth if truth would kill their religion".
Lemuel K. Washburn.

Also this ones quite good by the same chap:

"Religion is no more the parent of morality than an incubator is the mother of a chicken.”

As for the extraterrestrial correlation,well I'm sure nowadays if we were to land on a planet full of natives and then take off again,the planet's inhabitiants would start worshipping,deifying and embellishing stories about us almost immediately...that is not to say of course that in all likelihood organised relgion is man made and more about existing as a mechanism to control the masses.

Heres some other apt quote (I like quotes
)

"In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty".
Thomas Jefferson

"Most people's religion is what they want to believe, not what they do believe".
Luther Burbank.

"Religions are like farts.Yours is good but everyone else's stinks"
Picket fences

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
god... is in fact the most vicious,malicious,malevolent,vindictive and deranged serial killer in human history:


first we have breaking a law... technically everyone is a sinner and therefore deserving of death but in this case thats not what im talking about. im very specifically talking about breaking a specific law.

this usually means that the person breaking the law -
-knows the law
-knows the penalty
-breaks it anyway thinking he might be able to get away with it.

we see this every day no matter what country you are in. there is a law set by the government in power and the consequences are made known. when people break the law, we dont blame the government for their incarceration, we blame the criminal right?

lets be reasonable here, the same goes for god. if he sets a law and states that breaking the law will result in death, one cannot blame god if the person dies as a result of breaking the law.

the following "kills" fall under this category

- Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10 (he refused to provide a baby for his sister-in-law as dictated by the law)
- For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35 (the isrealites did this after specifically agreeing not to)
- Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, (they decided to do this after being instructed when and where they should burn incense)
- A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23 (law states not to)
- A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36 (thou shalt keep my sabbath)
- Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10 (incense was to be offered only at certain times)
- For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19 (noone was too look upon it except the priests and even the high priest at that)
- Religious leaders killed in a prayer contest 1 Kg.18:22-40 (worshipping baal was strictly forbidden in isreal)
- Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kings 1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 (consulting spirit mediums was forbidden)
- God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 (god's laws, utensils, and those performing sacred service were to be respected)
- Ezekiel's wife Ezekiel 24:15-18 (for disregarding laws pertaining to blood)
- Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 (they acted deceptively and in a premeditated manner)
- Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10
- For "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9

next we have war. god set up a nation of people. of course this means that certain nations will try to conquer the jews or even try to dominate them. kings will, OF THEIR OWN WILL, send armies against isreal. is it unjust for god to defend his people? the answer is obviously no.

the following are deaths caused in defending of Isreal

- God drowns Egyptian army Ex.14:28
- God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29
- Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22
- Massacre of the Canaanites Jg.4:15
- God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10
- God delivered the Ammonites to Jephthah to slaughter. Jg.11:32-33
- The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19
- The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15
- Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30
- God delivers the Philistines. 1 Sam.23:2-5
- God delivers the Philistines to David (again). 2 Sam.5:19, 25
- God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29
- God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30
- Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12
- God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26
- Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36
- "The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14
- God and Moses help Joshua kill the Amalekites Ex.17:13
- Massacre of the Aradites Num.21:1-3
- Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35
- God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12
- God forces the Philistine soldiers to kill each other. 1 Sam.14:20

next we have apostates, people who not only knowingly go against god's will, but also try to get others to follow too. you might say that this is not a big deal, but you have to remember that satan falls into this category. usually they did things that were abhorrent too. there were little or no redeeming qualities in these people. to put it simply, they define bad people. was god really unjust to put them to death?

- Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, 1 Chr.2:3
- Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27
- "The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38
- Herod Acts 12:23
- God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19
- God delivered the Israelites into the hand of the Chaldeans. 2 Chr.36:16-17
- Judean soldiers because they had forsaken the Lord 2 Chr.28:6
- Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20
- God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chronicles 13:15-17
- Saul 1 Chronicles 10:14
- Jehu killed "all that remained unto Ahab in Samaria ... according to the saying of the Lord" 2 Kg.10:16-17
- Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37
- Baasha killed everyone in the house of Jeroboam "according to the saying of the Lord." 1 Kings 15:29
- Zimri killed everyone in the house of Baasha "according to the word of the Lord." 1 Kg.16:11-12
- Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20
- Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9

next we have lack of protection. someone sins and god stops protecting them. the death itself isnt necessarily directly from god, but rather from him not preventing it. is this unjust? why should god protect people who choose not to be friends with him?

- David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Samuel 12:14-18 (god said to david that he was forgiven but that he would not be shield from consequences)
- God sent a three-year famine because of something Saul did. 2 Sam.21:1
- From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7
- God calls for a seven year famine. 2 Kg.8:1

one time commands. these are like laws, but are not. they are particular to a specific event. if god commands something and states the consequence of not obeying, then how can you blame god for the death when the erring person is being disobedient of their own accord?

- Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26 (she was told to run and not to look back lest she die, she looked back)
- God kills every Egyptian firstborn child. Ex.12:29-30 (those who were spared were told to specific things they HAD to do to not suffer this plague)
- God tells Joshua to stone to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, (he was told not to take spoils, then he lied about it again, and again, and again)
- God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36
- 7th Egyptian Plague: Hail Exodus 9:25 (pharaoh was commanded to let god people go, he didnt)

murmuring. complaining. imagine for a moment that you see a supernatural cloud floating above the tabernacle that turns to fire by night. you know that is a work of god and you understand god's arrangement for order. you understand that moses is god's representative. so there is no doubt this is god. you have plenty of food and water, yet you complain. you curse god for taking you out of slavery in egypt. sometimes the murmuring even gets to the point of revolt. the people who murmur are by no means innocent. they have a blatant disregard for god's provisions and for his arrangement. god was not unjust for putting them to death.

(these technically can be lumped with the apostates, but because this is something specific, i mention it separately)

- For complaining about the lack of food and water, God sent fiery serpents to bite the people, and many of them died. Num.21:6 (btw, it wasnt a lack of food, it was a lack of food they wanted, god supplied plenty)
- God killed those who murmured with a plague. Num.14:35-36
- God sent "a very great plague" for complaining about the food. Num.11:33
- God burned to death an unknown number for complaining Numbers 11:1
- For complaining Num.16:49

military conquest. god promised isreal land. the land was inhabited with people who praised idols with orgies. they sacrificed their firstborns buy burning them alive. i find it sad when people claim that these nations were "innocent". god also wanted to keep the isrealites clean. he didnt want them to pick up customs from these people (they did anyway)

- God delivers the Bashanites into Moses' hands and Moses kills everyone "until there was none left alive." Num.21:34-35
- The slaughter of the Anakim, the childen of Esau, and the Horim Deuteronomy 2:21-22
- God hardened the king of Heshbon's heart so that the Israelites could massacre his people. (included several cities) Dt.2:33-34
- God orders Saul to kill every Amalekite man, women, and child. 1 Sam.15:2-3
- Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33
- God delievered the king of Bashan so that the Israelites could massacre his people. Dt.3:3-6
- Massacre of Jericho Joshua 6:21
- God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25
- God slaughters the Amorites and even chases them "along the way" as they try to escape. Joshua 10:10-11
- Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees Joshua 10:24-26
- Massacre of 7 cities Joshua 10:28-42
- God delivers the Hazorites. Joshua 11:8-12
- Massacre of the Anakim Joshua 11:20-21
- God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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then we have really really bad people. people who are so bad, they "ruin" the earth. these people are violent and savage.

- The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37
- More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46
- God rains fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, killing everyone. Gen.19:24
- God drowns everyone on earth (except Noah and his family) Genesis 7:23 (this one is interesting because all one had to do to be saved was get on the ark.)

this one is not completely clear that it is from god. however, even assuming it was, the prophet didnt listen to god. nor did he inquire of god his will (which he could have done), instead he was told what he wanted to hear and did what he wanted to do.

- A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24

-------------------------

amazing what context does right?

i dont like this thread because the OP is misleading. it points to this issue by only looking at the killing without no regard to the "why". it disregards the personal responsibility of those who died ignoring the choices they made that led to that death.

to call god a deranged serial killer is simply to ignore what you want to ignore. lets face it, you want to demonize him. you want to make him as bad as possible that way you dont have any responsibility. you can do what you want when you want it free from consequence right? discredit part of the bible then you can discredit all of it right?

these passages testify that people are held accountable. yes, the bible says that god is love, but it also says that god hates the wicked. its not a contradiction, it just means that god is just. god hates it when people intentionally hurt others and he wont let them go unaccounted for.



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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Miriam if you are somehow suggesting the

'Well ,they were warned'

excuse justifies all or any of these heinous atrocities then I have to strongly disagree.

Can you imagine Ted Bundy using that line as his legal defense testimony?

It seems to me you want it both ways.
You want to belong to a religious sect who claims it values the sanctity of human life....yet have as your worshipped deity a remorseless vindictive bloodthirsty god who kills inferior non beleivers that dare not take him seriously.

Its all very contradcitory,hypocritical and paradoxical -in fact its nonsense.

You may want to ask yourself how a person corellates the fact that the abrahamic god wilfully massacred huge amounts of men women and children but then had the audacity to suggest to Moses that killing is wrong - do you think He's schizophrenic or was it just a bad judgement call?



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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I read a completely fascinating book several years back that postulated whether or not the God of the Old Testament was the same God as in the New Testament. They seem to be complete opposites. The O.T. is full of strict rules and (as the OP has listed) plenty of bloodshed while the N.T. has a God of love whose golden rule is to love others as yourself. What is going on?

Here are some interesting notes from him:


According to Sanders, there are four kinds of scriptural texts that support the "open" view of divine providence.

"The Bible portrays God as authentically responding to his people’s petitions" (e.g. 2 Kings 20; Mark 2:5, 6:5-6; James 4:2).

"The Bible portrays God as being affected by creatures and as sometimes being surprised by what they do" (e.g. Genesis 6:6; Ezekiel 12:1-3; Jeremiah 3:7).

"The Bible portrays God as testing people in order to discover what they will do" (e.g. Genesis 22:12; Exodus 15:25, 33:5).

"The Bible portrays God as changing his mind—altering his plans—as he relates to his creatures" (e.g. Exodus 32; 1 Samuel 2:30, Jonah 4:2, Judges 10).[45]



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Oh and I guess I would like to point at that NATURE is probably the worst serial killer in human history. I see posts regularly that attribute natural science causes to things described in the Bible such as the Great Flood and the Ten plagues, volcano eruption caused Sodom & Gomorrah, etc etc. So Mother Nature, she's a bitch!



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
Can you imagine Ted Bundy using that line as his legal defense testimony?


comparing ted bundy to god is like comparing a spoon to rat's nail.

ted bundy killed because he WAS psychopathic.

you are literally IGNORING the reasons for the deaths. you saying it doesnt matter. there are people who suggest that there is NEVER a reason to kill someone. thats bull.

are you suggesting that someone like ted bundy should be alive? are you suggesting that the man who put ted bundy to death is just as bad as ted? what about the judge and the governor that ordered his death? are they just as bad?

there is such a thing as "just" killing.


You may want to ask yourself how a person corellates the fact that the abrahamic god wilfully massacred huge amounts of men women and children but then had the audacity to suggest to Moses that killing is wrong - do you think He's schizophrenic or was it just a bad judgement call?


several differences between man and god.

- man will kill out of shear passion, without any thought about it. god will not kill unless there is a legal reason to.

- man cannot judge man. we can not deeply know the person or the understand the motives of others. god can.

- man is not greater than other man. god is supreme. he created everything. as such he is the ultimate "landlord". he has every right to evict us from HIS earth if we dont not stay within the rules of tenentship.

he told moses not to kill because we do not have the right. god does. does this mean he is bloodthirsty when he exercises that right? no, each death had a legal reason for that death.

this coupled with the fact that most these people will probably be resurrected. (john 5:19)

again, who are you to judge god? are you so righteous that you can say god cant kill?



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 

Hello miriam,

If I may just add a different thought then what you believe...

I think its the other way around...people that say 'God doesnt kill' arent trying to be God, they feel they are sticking up for God. Death in this world isnt the worry...its death of the spirit that is, which isnt up to God, its up to us.

You saying that there is a time to kill is the exact opposite of what my heart tells me and I dont think these would be acts of Jesus either, so much, he let those crazies take his flesh body because he knew...he knew in order to come above, to leave this dark hell hole, he had to remain as a rightous being should remain. It was hard for Jesus not to fall, I feel he knew for teaching his thoughts, that went against the beliefs of those days....he knew things were so fanatic, that they would try to kill him-but he believed so much so, that he didn't fall and remained righteous amongst our evils and this worlds temptations.

The law says do not kill. 2 wrongs don't make a write. I dont need this law from the Bible, many old text of many cilvilizations had the same law, its not hard to see reasons to not kill....but it is hard to not do it even when you feel there is reason enough...to do it.

Peace to all.
LV



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


but you are still applying our limitations to god.

its like your saying that because we cant kill justly, then neither can god. thats not true.

second, why would you think that killing of the soul is left only to us?



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Im saying, we are human...what makes divinity divinity? Its a nature we cant imagine, a love that has no bounds. That to me is what makes God righteous above all...Love is the strongest power, there is no other that can conquered love.

We are responsible for the souls given to us is how I see it. Mabey that will change, my mind remains open on that. But it is truly our actions, our conscious thoughts and feelings that gets weighed in the end. So it is our own fault if we don't pay better attention. This is where I have mixed feelings because I'm not sure I think things just end at all with any soul...I think the possibility exists that God will make a way fro every soul...with the beauty of time. I do know I dont see a hell like damnation place for souls...unless Earth is exactly that...and we are still getting the chance to find a way out. The door istn going to be shown to us if that was the case...hmmmm, that would really explain a 'forgetful world'.

Sorry, Im kinda thinking out loud...I dont have a real clear idea of what exactly I think happens...but we do seem to be placed in responsibility of them. Instead of seeing it like a 'judging'...I see it like a weighing'.

Ill think on that more,
Peace

LV



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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Miriam -you have no idea about who or what god is -your opinions are just based on speculation,conjecture and guesswork... so for you to go postulating about god's divine murderous motivations 'in a factual context' seems to me to be a highly presumptuous (not to mention a little arrogant)

I think the idea of the abrahamic god intentionaly coming down to earth and committing all these murderous attrocities upon men ,women and children as a deterent or warning (or just because they had it coming) could only have been thought up in the mind of a selfish,agenda driven religious extremist.

I ask you again-after purposefully murdering all these people and showing no remorse or regret-why do you think he came down and told Moses that killing other people was an bad thing to do?
Do you think God is the ultimate hypocrite or do you just think he got it wrong?



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
 
Its like your saying that because we cant kill justly, then neither can god. thats not true.


[to all...]

Oh yes it is. The Prime Creator is OUTSIDE the Universe, and all universes, though S/He permeates them all (infinite cyclical strings of universes). Each universe is a Pre-Existent Grid Formation (called The WORD), upon which Primary Spontaneous Creation Accumulates (occurs), and the wisest of wise call this 'God."

Every thing below this Universal-Set-God sets itself up 'as another god," emulating it's creator.

Satan is a Creator Force (s/he composited jesu mythos to control the weak-willed, evolving stock animals: humanity). jesu is your imagination & desire in control.

But you believe as you wish: lot's of company at the bottom of the Consciousness Pyramid! Even kinda comfy.

What do you know? Absolutely nothing, obviously. What they call Jehovih is merely the ordered formations of Superior Light Consciousness, sometimes known as the Jehovic Council of Twelve.

This is received from the Circle-the Traingle-the Square, archetype direct connect.

Fools who say they've spoken to "god" couldn't tell a real 'god' from their behind. But they will swear to it.

Murders of people? Perpetrated by these selfish, heinous false god(s), and psuedo christs & avatars. This ain't dogma: religion is dogma.

Go to the Source of Creation and find it all True: it's very simple creational-celestial geometries.

Murdering for a cause: read the matrix quotes which abound. The masses are not ready to wake up, and will kill for their ideas, however fallacious they are: they couldn't care less. Pay 10%, go to 'heaven.' Never mind engaging the Ascension Machine (Earth), the purpose of living life (it's so hard, it reminds me on non-stop work: oohh...oouughh).

Sleep, munch grass, leave the Knowing to those who Rule: they'll handle it for ya (like they have been).

It's a Predatory Universe. Get it in your heads: see the light of that truth: merely contemplate all the reality that you have known and are aware of. The smart human will say, "by golly, it sure looks that way...regardless what the zealots & dogma fanatics keep telling us; ya, sure."

Mind is not the answer, celestial awareness is.

And so the religious nuts-fanatics allow themselves to kill endless millions in the name of their god, child rape, abuse, infant burial (personal awarenss in Mn.), and all the other atrocious wonders of fanatic religion.

And yes, grandma missed church 7 days a week, sometimes only making it 6. And just before her death (86), said to my little sister: "I don't understand what it's all about [christian theology]."

Neither does any one else. Check out the cash value of religious organizations, for a starter.

Ah, religious fervor!

Wake up. Learn what's behind the dogma. Yes, there are mighty mystical Truths & consciousnesses, but Space-Jesus is not god, nor is any god.

Try studying Gershom Scholem (one of the greatest biblical scholars ever, rip; not to mention the kabbalah): he tried to convey his perceptions, his accumulated wisdom, but was utterly unsuccessful: he sumarized the biblical mythos under the title:
"Peter, or jesus rejected; Judas, or jesus accepted."

Go try figure that one out. Too deep a mystery? Then sleep.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by SS,Naga]



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Some very well thought out and presented posts there.


But,when it comes to military conquest,you forgot to mention this important fact;God hardened the hearts of Israels enemies,deliberately and on a regular basis.Does it sound like they had a choice in attacking Israel or not.

And lets not forget that many of the laws within the OT that require the death penalty are just insane,and obviously the workings of an irrational mind.(see link for details) www.religioustolerance.org...
Also,and this is important,a child under a certain age (who does not know right from wrong) cannot be guilty of committing a sin.So,i'll ask again,what justification did God have for killing them,thousands of them? (lets not forget he himself intentionally killed all the first born sons in Egypt,many of them young children and babies)


I also agree with what Karl12,is the excuse 'they were warned' justifiable?
Can you be justified for disembowling someone when you can either kill them peacefully and painlessly or not at all?



[edit on 3-12-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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Miriam...

WOW! BIG kuddos go out to you!

Jakyll...

What can I say, I don't have an answer for you as far as the children are concerned. But, I am humble enough to accept the fact that my imperfect sense of justice cannot compare with Jehovah's PERFECT sense of justice. When I started studying the Bible, there were some things I didn't understand and I would ask myself "why, how could that be", but I realized that I was being near sighted, biased, and not seeing the whole picture. You can nit pick the Bible and find many inconsistencies, it's like picking up a piece of the puzzle and trying to make out the whole picture from it. I used to make the mistake of jumping into conclusions before knowing ALL the facts involved. That is what is so wrong about this thread. As Miriam mentioned, putting things into context makes more sense.

I come from a diverse background, I was raised Catholic, I also when to a school that taught hinduism, I studied and practiced astrology among other things. When I started studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses, I felt, I knew I had found the truth. I consider myself to be an open minded, objective person, and my reaction to the accounts in the Bible that the OP mentions was: "O.K., this god does not mess around, he upholds HIS laws, he fights for HIS people, what a powerful god". And remember, everything God allowed to be recorded in his word is for a reason, I learned to ask myself "what about this story is God trying to reveal about himself". I think him being accused of being a serial killer was the least of his concerned. That's what I love about the Bible, it is an HONEST account of the facts, unbiased, and in PERFECT harmony. Those that disagree is because again, they are nit picking and not putting the puzzle together to see the whole picture.

The God of the old testament IS THE SAME God of the new testament. God has NOT changed. When Jehovah's day of justice comes, who's side do you want to be on? The nations with their nuclear powers? I don't know about you, but I'll feel safer being on Jehovah's side, he has proven time and time again that he can bring nations down to their knees with a snap of a finger (so to speak). He has at his disposal an endless source of power.

What's wrong with humbling yourself and learning from history?

Miriam, again..... bien hecho!!!!!


INJUSTICE

[edit on 3-12-2008 by holywar]



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by holywar
 


Hello holywar,

There is nothing wrong with learning history as long as one can use discernment to know what nature influenced that history.

Many accept blindly.

LV



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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WOW.... =)

I really wouldn't know where to begin to offset the hatred of God that has been portrayed by many on this thread. And what's even more disturbing to note that - IF someone were to give some of these folks a clearly justifiable reason why UNIVERSAL ORDER acted to the imbalances caused by self will run rampant to balance itself, causing the demise of the people discussed in the Bible - they still wouldn't accept the fact as justifiable, but would instead continue to squirm around in their easy chair wondering why they were so uneasy...

It's lost mentalities like that that I will make this statement to and understand that, like Jesus stated, will never get the point being made, because they aren't genetically capable of grasping the truth of the matter at hand. Understand that I say the word GENETICALLY because from it's very inception (Genesis 3: 15) God told mankind that "emnity" would exist between two different "seeds" of mankind, one known as the "Woman's" seed, and the other known as the "Serpent's" seed. Yes, from the gate, God told us that two distinctly DIFFERENT types of humans exist on this planet.

Does anyone here think they have enough KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING, and/or WISDOM to actually contend to know the reasons behind those that have died by "Acts of God" to actually KNOW the REASONS behind why God acted? I think most here know what the term "half - cocked" means, and to actually justify a condemnation of the very persona that understands this universe and that which He created - which by the way includes mankind - is a bit immature, you think?

God blessed the "Woman's" seed, condemning the "Serpent's" seed from it's petition of birth right. When did this happen? when Adam's twins, known as Cain and Able, jointly made their petitions of God for His blessing.

Cain, the father of the gentiles, killed Able because he was the offspring of the woman, imposing a self willed dominion over the rest of God's children. That is why Cain was banished, and Seth, the third child born of Adam and Eve, which literally means "replacement", came into being. Cain was NOT directly fathered by Adam, who fathered Able immediately (as in the same day) after the Cherub Samael impregnated Eve in the Garden of Eden. Eve gave birth to twins, one dynamically impregnated and one naturally conceived.

Therefore, those who cannot understand why God would impose upon "innocent" children don't have a clue as to how not-so-innocent the very existance of the "Serpent's" seed truly is. Azazel, the Cherub of the second rebellion, proved that such a union was contrary to the nature of mankind when God completely destroyed the offspring of Azazel's dominion during the flood of Noah. Those killed during the flood of Noah were monsters, murdering people indiscriminately, and devouring all that was before them.

So, for those who cannot fathom the reason why God acted on behalf of the "Woman's" seed by destroying those that belonged to the "Serpent's" seed, you should truly do the research necessary to understand these things.

Truly, if there is a God that fathered us, wouldn't a truly grateful son or daughter do the research to understand who it is that brought us life?

More importantly, wouldn't those sons and daughters want to learn what it truly means to literally be the very sons and daughters of the Creator, with the understanding of what our future will be like when we mature into that which our very Creator matured into?



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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One should not assume that if one see's darkness instead ALL light in the Bible that this person 'hates' God.

I am very faithful in my relation to Thee.

Yes, I think we are worthy to question and I think God wouldnt expect nothing less then to weigh every vine from every seed.

You say there are 2 different seeds and this was the whole problem. If you ask me, we all have a little of both good and bad, it doesnt seem that balck and white to me. There are times my actions would of shown to be more of a seed of a serpent and there are times my actions showed a divine rightouse seed. I am working on becoming a seed without blemish and part of that journey has led me to see through this dark story and has brought me to a much Higher understanding of Gods nature and why it is rightous and how it is only light and love with NO darkness.

That would mean that God doesnt tempt, make mistakes, change natures, orders man to go against ones own law, holds no greed, pride or jealously.

I could go on and on...Im just as passionate about Thee as you are my friend.

Peace to all,
LV



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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In my quest for a higher knowledge of the Creator I have come across many of the discrepancies you talk about LV, and yes.. I do agree with your ideology of a God that has made personal changes, and who has revised His standards and created "Covenants".

The prophetic demise of the Christ was the precursor to what we know today as the "New Covenant", which was a move away from the "Old Covenant" - the one instituted between Adoni and the Nation of Israel. There will be future covenant amendments as mankind matures, one of which is nearing it's zenith for institution even now.

The insight I've learned about our Creator is that - in all simplicity - "God", the very Creator of this universe, is truly nothing more than a man. God, is a Man... that is why the Christ is known as the "Son of Man".

Just like us, as His direct descendants, God is maturing. It takes maturity to reach adulthood. There has only been three Biblical references that has recorded humans as maturing enough to reach adulthood... the first of these being Enoch. The other two were Elijah, and Elisha.

Christ opened the way for 144,000 more of mankind to reach this adulthood so as to permeate the transformation from infancy into Adulthood with his "Contract with Mankind" - as I will call it - the New Covenant, which was bound into law with His introduction of what most know as the Communion, or the Lord's Last Supper.

"Keep doing this in rememberance..." - out with the old (PassOver) and in with the new ("Communion", which should be observed annually on PassOver).

God continues to mature, as such His purpose continues to mature. however, this is not to say that it is all a trial by error gambit. God originally had a plan for us with our initial creation. That plan was sidestepped when Samael decided it would be a fine thing for him to intervene into God's Creation. So a new plan had to be put into place, one that would ultimately correct the transgression committed by Samael and bring mankind once again back into balance with God's original purpose for us as His children.

What was that original purpose? Simply the very thing any human parent wants for their children - God is no different - to grow up into what they as parents exist as... possessing the same successes, the same powers, the same benevolences, the same intellects, the same grandeur, the same charismatic aptitudes, as they have.

So even though the discrepancies the Bible reveals about the changes God has made both in personal decisions as well as direction of legal policy towards us as His people exist, We must understand that these changes were made to offset the imbalance Samael created.

So when we read that God "repented for making mankind and wanted to destroy him off of the face of the Earth" - we have to understand the human implications this would entail from a man completely frustrated at the things going on to divert his purpose. Interestingly... it was another man that changed God's mind...

"One man sharpens the face of another"...

Free Will inherantly DOES interfere with God's Will. God must balance His purpose while still granting Free Will...

WOW - what a concept! Can any of us try to do that?

If only we could.... What a world this would be!





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