Boy 'killed father after 1,000 smacks', page 4

reply to post by Benarius

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It ain't that bad. Happened to me, and I turned out fine. All this "spanking is child abuse" arguing sounds like bellyaching to me.

reply to post by Benarius

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Undisciplined children are far more "damaged" than anything a clipped ear will give you.

Today, the streets are awash with kids who's parents wouldn't discipline them and now we have a youth crime wave in the UK. Didn't happen back in my day when parents were not scared of the PC brigade branding them child beaters just because they gave their child a slap.

And I don't see the need for the threats, really.

You think it's abuse, I do not. The Law agrees with me as it happens, so until the law is changed I shall use spanking, when necessary, which is very rarely.

You brand it as "emotional abuse" or whatever fluffy term you want, but isolation and deprivation are also "emotionally abusing", so you can't take the moral high ground.

*snip*

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[edit on 11/30/08 by niteboy82]

reply to post by stumason

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So then be it. I take you up for a challenge in the apropriate debate forum. "SPANKING IS CHILD ABUSE vs. SPANKING IS NOT CHILD ABUSE". I get the mods to set it up for us. Let me know when you're ready.

Originally posted by Benarius
reply to post by stumason

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So then be it. I take you up for a challenge in the apropriate debate forum. "SPANKING IS CHILD ABUSE vs. SPANKING IS NOT CHILD ABUSE". I get the mods to set it up for us. Let me know when you're ready.

Do you think you can hold a debate without getting personal?

And remember you should at least ponder the statements of the indivdual you are debating, instead of just reacting.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Koka]

reply to post by Koka

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Yes.

The debated issue has been stated.

The topic of this thread is:

Boy 'killed father after 1,000 smacks'

The personal attacks/commentary need to end now. If you have a personal beef, take it to u2u, but please do not derail the thread by attacking fellow members.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


Carry on.

[edit on 11/30/08 by niteboy82]

reply to post by stumason

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clip round the ear

What exactly is a clip round the ear? Never heard that before.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Canadianduder

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My partner on the other hand restricts her discipline to a mild telling off and empty threats, which the kids know she won't follow up on. When I am not there, they are terrors. When I am there, they behave. It's almost as if they have split personalities.

Kids are devious creatures and if you don't have wide range of tools, including spanking, and follow up on threats to employ them, you end up with horrible little turds.

So your kids have learned to fear you and mock your wife. Sounds like neither technique has worked too well.

At least with your technique you get what YOU want, until your kids are old enough to leave home. I'm sure you fully believe that what YOU want is the right thing, and what they want is 'wrong'. That takes a certain level of arrogance, but I've noticed from your posts over the years that isn't a quality you are lacking.

Personally I have never 'spanked' or physically threatened any of my kids. I just don't want to teach them the concept of bullying to get what they want.

I don't think they turned into 'horrible little turds', rather the opposite, but then I am the father so I'm biased

As for a child shooting his father and friend, that's just sad, and obviously one of the more negative aspects of a gun culture.

Clearly, by using violence to get what he wanted, the father taught the child a little too well.

reply to post by inthesticks

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a clip around the ear hole.

to be struck upon the side of the head,most commonly by mothers to their young spawn after being bold boys

Some random link

reply to post by RogerT

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Can't say I agree with your "analysis". I have found the best form of punishment is to deprive them of things they enjoy. As I have clearly stated several times here, I only give them a clip round the ear or a smacked arse rarely, but they know that I will if they continue to misbehave.

It may come as a shock to you, with your angelic little kids that you've obviously never had a problem with due to your excellent parenting skills (and you say I am arrogant), but sometimes reasoning with kids is a waste of time. Let me give you an example:

You go shopping with the children, they start to play up and run around the store, shouting or pulling things off shelves, you know the drill.

You ask them to behave, which they might do for all of 2 minutes. Then they start again, so you threaten them with a punishment, like no TV when you get home for example.

Now, while your out and about with 5 year olds they tend not to be too forward thinking. Your threat of no TV later has little impact, as they are not watching TV now, are they? You might threaten to remove something else instead, but whatever you do, it's likely to fall on deaf ears. There is little else you can threaten them with that has an immediate impact.

Now, if it was me in that situation, I would ask them first to behave. No joy? Ask again in a sterner manner. No joy again? Clip one round the ear as they run past. Enough to grab their attention and know you mean business, but certainly not enough to hurt them.

I have found on every occasion, a clip round the ear and a raised voice is far more effective at getting immediate compliance, rather than spending 20 minutes trying to "reason" with a hyperactive 5 year old, getting stressed in the process, having to remove god knows what when you get home and make sure you follow up on every threat of sanction you said.

Now, you may think that my kids "fear" me or don't respect my missus, but that is utter bollocks.

My daughter dotes on me, she clings to me like a limpet. She is always telling me how much she loves me, drawing me pictures and we play together and read often. She is just as loving with her mother.

The boy is less affectionate, as is the norm, but is a happy, bouncy lad who always wants to play. Sometimes he gets over excited and is usually the one to get the tellings off, but he is way ahead of his class in reading, writing and numeracy, so I am happy with the trade off in his slight misbehaviour for his excellent brain power.

What you interpret as them "fearing" me is incorrect. What the kids have learnt is to fear the consequences of their actions should they be doing wrong. They know I will follow through with my threats, which 95% of the time are the normal sanctions such as a grounding, no TV, removal of toys, which they then have to earn back. They don't just get them back the next day.

The problem with the missus is that she will not always follow through. Sometimes the lad will test her when she counts to three, to see if she will actually take away his spiderman toys. EVERY child will do that, they like to test boundaries to see how far they can go. Lately she has got better and we try to maintain a united front.

Anyway, the bottom line is I do not view a clip round the ear or a smacked bottom as "abuse". It has it's uses. The fact that you have made the gross mistake of assuming that is all I do, despite me having said otherwise just goes to show your out to try and gain some moral high ground, rather than actually listen to what I have said. Had you done so, then you would know that most of what you said was a crock of BS.

EDIT:

ANYWAY, THATS ME DONE ON THIS. I DO NOT WISH TO DERAIL THIS FURTHER

[edit on 30/11/08 by stumason]

Bottom line...NOONE can make any judgments as to the forms of abuse until this child actually tells us what happened. NOONE on this board was there, NOONE on this board saw it happen, NOONE on this board knows anyone involved to get FIRSTHAND knowledge and FACTS...yet I read MANY posts by people who sure as heck act like they stood there everytime something went down and know the true details. Its kinda pathetic to jump to conclusions!!!

Is it sad that it happened yes....but when you have a child kill 2 people...you better raise an eyebrow and know what your talking about before opening your mouths!

reply to post by stumason

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After reading all 4 pages of this thread I must commend you and your ability to raise your kids the right way. For the canadian poster...you badmouth others for doing it THEIR way...my only thing to you is...you said you had to send them off to grandpa's when they got way out of hand...so obviously YOUR techniques don't work that often either, or you find it easier to push your problems off on others because you can't handle them yourself...so drop your "my way is the best/only way to raise kids" attitude!

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