Boy 'killed father after 1,000 smacks', page 3

reply to post by stumason

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"I think your are making to much of a connection between spanking and emotion, without thinking about the emotional response to any other form of punishment."

Once again, you are purposefully ignoring the full extent of the abuse.

You are pretending that this didn't already happen over 1000 times... Don't.

Do you honestly believe that someone who does this doesn't also intentionally inflict psychological wounds? or has the abuser limited himself to beatings?

*beatings which you believe are not emotional abuse at all, and have already compare them to taking a toy away... There is no comparison - You can't imagine one into existence. Don't try.

In case you forget, he was abused OVER 1000 times...



[edit on 30-11-2008 by Canadianduder]

reply to post by Solomons

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I agree.

I don't take pleasure in doing it and I don't do it to hurt, but rather make the child listen and pay attention, and only as a last resort.

Usually the threat of a clip round the ear is enough to get them to behave.

Originally posted by Canadianduder
reply to post by stumason

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So you are still of the mind that physical abuse is not de facto emotional abuse...

Are you purposefully ignoring the number of times this took place over the course of his 3000 day lifespan?

Again, care to post the links to the stories that you've apparently seen that give more background about the nature of the spankings?

Also, I find it weird how unreservedly you're accepting this tallying system. Unless you post information that states otherwise, you don't know how the boy was actually defining a 'spanking'. We, as posters on this thread can debate forever what we view as acceptable remonstration, but ultimately the boy decided what that definition was and, at present, I've not actually seen this definition.

I've not actually seen any evidence that you have either - I'm actually wondering whether you're holding on for breaking news or similar that confirms what you suspect. Otherwise, why haven't you posted these pieces yet?

reply to post by Canadianduder

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Ah, "spankings" have now become "beatings". You have changed what your saying to a word which has entirely different connotations.

A spank is a slap round the arse or a clip round the ear. A beating is much more severe and something I do NOT agree with.

Are we arguing over two different things? Can we agree on what it is we are arguing about, maybe we do agree after all?

reply to post by Canadianduder

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Yeah I figured that after I wrote it , I looked atit then thought to myself,,Screw it I'll leave it there anyway.

I guess mypoint for that little jewel of stupidity was that even though I didnt realise why I was being punished all the time it was for a good cause.
It took me a while to understand the point of discipline. I was unable to relate one thing with another in those days, and since I recall guys saying " If that SOB deos one more thing to me im going to jail." Not unlike a certian 8 year old who wrote a letter of intent.

Whatever this is pointless, like I said. thats why I moved on to myself and my children.
I prefer not to spank actually, I do use the military methods however that taught me to calm the hell down. Some may say it is abusive but I love my kids and they love me.
We get along great. I think I spoil them to much, lol everyonbe else thinks so too.

Oh well sorry to sound confusing.

reply to post by stumason

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So you are going to argue semantics now?

Abuse is abuse. Let's use that word. It is the most accurate.

He was abused over 1000 times. How is that?

We will just call a spade a spade. Child abuse is child abuse.

reply to post by Canadianduder

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Well, yes! Because the two words mean something entirely different. I wouldn't be arguing semantics if you said the words "cow" and "chicken", would I?

Spanking: A smack on the arse or back of the legs - not enough to even leave a mark. Legal

Beating: Hit hard, leaves bruises, maybe even uses an object such as a belt. Illegal

Two entirely different things!

Essentially what I have been trying to say for the past god knows how many posts, is that if he is just being spanked, that is hardly a valid motive for double murder.

If he was being beaten than I see your point. If you made your position clear and used the correct wording, rather than interchanging words with entirely different meanings, we might have an agreement.

Originally posted by Canadianduder
reply to post by stumason

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So you are going to argue semantics now?

Abuse is abuse. Let's use that word. It is the most accurate.

He was abused over 1000 times. How is that?

We will just call a spade a spade. Child abuse is child abuse.

We can call 'a spade a spade' as much as we like. However, the crux of this lies with how the boy was defining 'a spade', so to speak. Do you actually know - at this moment in time - how the boy was defining what constitutes a 'spanking'?

reply to post by Canadianduder

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Canadianduder
Im simply asking a question here so dont get hostile toward me please.
What info do you have that suggests he was "smacked" 1000 x?

I mean I know what the article said but it stands to reason the child can over exagerate these Abuses you claim.

I mean I dont doubt he kept a tally, and that he was spanked slapped or smacked 1000 times, but how do we know all those times were violent acts?

Children are very good at drama and tend to stretch reality alot.
THere is no doubt it caused him stress, but Im trying to discern your ogic in calling it abuse.

Once again this is a simple question no cutting remarks or sarcasm needed please.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

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"how the boy was defining what constitutes a 'spanking'? "

Probably as it was in reality - as child abuse.

He was being abused, he may have not had access to the vocabulary that an older person would have - but he clearly knew he was being abused... because he was.

reply to post by Canadianduder

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I don't think your going to budge from your position of "anything is abuse", are you?

I've tried, I really have, to meet you in the middle.

But you seem willing to interchange words with different meanings to suit whatever point you're making at the time and seem to be of the rather extreme-left view that any form of physical punishment is "abuse".

I notice you sidestepped my question about emotional abuse when you take away desserts and toys. You are quite willing to attach "emotional abuse" to spanking, but are you willing to accept that deprivation and isolation (two methods you have admitted to using) are also "emotional abuse"?

How do you rationalise that? I am having trouble with your logic.

Originally posted by Canadianduder
reply to post by Merriman Weir

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"how the boy was defining what constitutes a 'spanking'? "

Probably as it was in reality - as child abuse.

Erm, no. That's a definition you clearly have an inclination toward and would like to believe.

Am I wrong to determine from your answer that you - despite your earlier posts - don't actually know more about the background details to this story?

He was being abused, he may have not had access to the vocabulary that an older person would have - but he clearly knew he was being abused... because he was.

Apparently this 8-year-old boy had no psychiatric problems to speak of, he doesn't appear to have been in a special education unit of any kind. I'm not sure what kind of 8-year-old is without the vocabulary to describe what was happening to him. The quotes given in the articles I've seen suggest a reasonable articulate child and one certainly intelligent enough to have thought through several 'versions' of the events surrounding his premeditated murder of his father.

reply to post by KKinsane

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Who said anything about "pounding them into submission". Spanking is not beating!!!

Several people here are attaching a severe negative connotation to spanking, when it might only be a smacked bottom for crying out loud!

Seems like the conditioning is working....

I am disgusted about the attitudes and acceptance of spanking. It simply shows that you all suffer from lack of communication skills towards your children. Because you fail to communicate verbally you use force. If you wanna beat or spank somebody, pick somebody your own size. *snip*

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[edit on 11/30/08 by niteboy82]

reply to post by Benarius

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You obviously didn't read the thread then and have made assumptions about us all based upon what, exactly?

Read my long post on page 2....

[edit on 30/11/08 by stumason]

Now you got me going. *snip* Even if you think you spank controlled, e.g. behind the ear, it's so easy to damage that child for ever. You want it to be your fault that your child can't hear for the rest of their lifes?

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[edit on 11/30/08 by niteboy82]

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