What makes you think God has limits?

read your bible read it well

mans actions are pnuished by god time and time again.

Yes, but it is the actions of man that ask for the punishments. Teacher & student.

so your discrediting the bibles accounts of god showing up then? as not being proof of god

No, I'm saying that what was attributed to God in ancient times, would be described as mundane and easily explainable by any 4th grader in science class. Does that make it any less an act of God? No. We know how the tides of oceans work, doesn't mean it's not God's construction and operation.

hahaha

the hard love he gives is fire falling from the sky, floods and plagues and he makes sure you know it was him

so why not now? why not for 2000 years? why the sudden change?

...Tsunami's, AIDS, volcanic eruptions, other natural disasters...those still exist?


[edit on 4-12-2008 by Reddupo]

Originally posted by Reddupo
Yes, but it is the actions of man that ask for the punishments. Teacher & student.

so does he no longer teach? has he abandoned his ways?

No, I'm saying that what was attributed to God in ancient times, would be described as mundane and easily explainable by any 4th grader in science class. Does that make it any less an act of God? No. We know how the tides of oceans work, doesn't mean it's not God's construction and operation.

but by the same token doesnt mean it is

when what the bible says is the direct hand of god in play (rainbows) is understood does god stop and nature take over? or was it always nature attributed to a god?

...Tsunami's, AIDS, volcanic eruptions, other natural disasters...those still exist?

but all natural

fire falling from the skys, world floods, god popping up saying youve been bad bunnies so heres a plague, all your first born will die, your decendants are cursed forever

now that biblical .... see the differance? god does it he tells you its him he makes sure you know

reply to post by noobfun


It's quite simple. Half of your response continues to harp on how I'm relying on the bible to explain God's power, when I've clearly demonstrated I'm not. THERE's the flaw friend.

A considerable portion then moves to one of your favourite methods of rebuttle, the "is not, is too" defence.

I wasted my time reading another of your long-winded posts and for what? There is no new information presented. Just the same old repetitive drivel that I have dealt with and dispatched in previous replies.

Evidence is valid, in terms of proving a hypothesis, as long as no contrary evidence is found you say? I'd advise you to steer clear of using this line in the future, because you're actually saying the creation story in the Bible is supported by the lack of evidence (none) refuting it.

Originally posted by noobfun

Originally posted by beach2197
if the bible is 'man made", then how are all of the prophetic writings true to the day? it predicted the coming of the Christ in Daniel i believe....to the day! Literally, man must have written the bible, but can man, in AAAALLL of his extensive knowledge and intellect, really predict or visualize future events a thousand years before they happen to the day?? someone must have shown the author a vision or something for them to be that accurate. I belive that someone is God.

jesus failed to do many of them

and theres no mention in the bible of him having another try

it says when jesus comes back he comes with fire and death

and how hard is it to write about a prophecy bieng fulfilled when the accounts of them bieng done are written by people who wernt there if jesus was real

even the one bieng descended from the line of david fails, he claims decent through joseph but he isnt his father, and no where does it say mary is of the line of david

Jesus failed to do many of what? Miracles? Prophecies? . What are you asking?? I'm not sure.
another try at what???
yes, it does say when jesus comes back with fire and death to those who do not believe.
i'm not sure what you mean about your "writing about a prophecy being fullfilled" statement. The book of Daniel was written some 500 years before any of the actual prophetic events that took place all the way thru the birth of Jesus.
who claims descent thru Joseph?

[edit on 5-12-2008 by beach2197]

[edit on 5-12-2008 by beach2197]

Originally posted by speaker

It's quite simple. Half of your response continues to harp on how I'm relying on the bible to explain God's power, when I've clearly demonstrated I'm not. THERE's the flaw friend.

do you believe god is all knowing and all powerful and perfect? like the bible says anyway?

i dont need to rely on the bible how about i use the deffinition of the word god?

or do you wish to redefine god and ill use that model huh?

A considerable portion then moves to one of your favourite methods of rebuttle, the "is not, is too" defence.

awwww

shall i just agree and make you all feel better about your selves?

really feel the need to attack me rather then refute the argument?

I wasted my time reading another of your long-winded posts and for what? There is no new information presented. Just the same old repetitive drivel that I have dealt with and dispatched in previous replies.

stop making the same poor argument and maybe i can change my replies ^_^

but hey if your feeling the stress feel free to go about your buisness

Evidence is valid, in terms of proving a hypothesis, as long as no contrary evidence is found you say? I'd advise you to steer clear of using this line in the future, because you're actually saying the creation story in the Bible is supported by the lack of evidence (none) refuting it.

what kind of idiotic reasoning is that?

theres plenty refuting it, its called science and maths and history and acrhaeology

hypothesis is refuted as evidence points contruary to its foundation ... sorry




[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by beach2197

Jesus failed to do many of what? Miracles? Prophecies? . What are you asking?? I'm not sure.
another try at what???

bring peace and freedom from cruelty
raise the third temple
return ALL the jews to israel
be decended from king david by direct blood line

theres a bunch of propecies he didnt fulfill, but these get ignored or in the case of davids decent lied about saying he got it from mary becasue the bible says, but the bible doesnt says nothing at all about it

yes, it does say when jesus comes back with fire and death to those who do not believe.

he brings death to everyone when he comes back its the end of the world so no peace etc he is wiping it all clear for a party in heaven

i'm not sure what you mean about your "writing about a prophecy being fullfilled" statement. The book of Daniel was written some 500 years before any of the actual prophetic events that took place all the way thru the birth of Jesus.

yes and the writting that say jesus passed the tests were written 40-80 years later, plenty of time to make bits up to fit dont you think?

who claims descent thru Joseph?

jesus did to fulfil the decendant of king david prophecy



[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

Nothing can make me think God has limits.
He doesn't have any!
He did however give us a concience and the power to choose (a popular word huh) so that we aren't a bunch of puppets. He doesn't cause anything bad but will allow them for reasons of his own; some of which could be lessons. Some are a result of our own actions.
I do know I have a very lot of questions for Him when we meet.

reply to post by noobfun


I believe that it's possible God is all knowing and all powerful, that's all. Maybe God is just an ordinary bloke with no supernatural power at all. I don't rule anything out, that's the easiest way to stop learning. Most of all, I don't presume to know the mind of God. Perhaps God doesn't exist at all, I acknowledge that.

I can't help the fact that you are too sensitive to distinguish between an observation and an attack. I agree it is idiotic reasoning, but it is YOUR reasoning. You were the one that proposed evidence is valid as long as nothing contradicts your hypothesis. In case you've forgotten, my proposal required no alternative explanation for said evidence in order to validate it. Let me know if you would like me to clarify any other contradictions you have made.

One last thing, how can you say plenty of evidence refutes the creation story in the bible, when God has no limits? You obviously don't understand it, but THIS is one of many flaws in your logic.


[edit on 5-12-2008 by speaker]

Originally posted by speaker

agree it is idiotic reasoning, but it is YOUR reasoning. You were the one that proposed evidence is valid as long as nothing contradicts your hypothesis.

evidence is only valid if there is no evidence that is contruary to it to provide an alternate explenation

so you have evidence? and to say the bible you have to prove its validity

In case you've forgotten, my proposal required no alternative explanation for said evidence in order to validate it.

exactly

its using negative proof

it cares nothing for proving anything, it should just be accepted as is rather then try and explain evidence against, thats denial

which means it isnt even as worthy as a hypothesis

Let me know if you would like me to clarify any other contradictions you have made.

sure go ahead im all ears

One last thing, how can you say plenty of evidence refutes the creation story in the bible, when God has no limits?

becuase that has yet to be established, all the evidence points to natural concluisions

which god isnt

You obviously don't understand it, but THIS is one of many flaws in your logic.

shame it seems to be showing the opposite

reply to post by noobfun


Hmmm....evidence.....now let me see......We're here aren't we? I'd say that's pretty conclusive evidence, wouldn't you?

I've done as much as I can to educate you on the flaws in your logic, I can do no more. I can't help it if you cannot comprehend it. You'll have to overcome that hurdle for yourself.

Try coming up with something I haven't already addressed next time, hey?

[edit on 5-12-2008 by speaker]

Originally posted by noobfun


[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

well, you're wrong about (unless its just your opinion) Jesus not bringing peace. He turned alot of people and had many disciples. Many people followed him. He did exactly what he was brought to Earth to do, and that was to die for all mankind's sins so that we may all be saved
then you're wrong about the temple being raised. There is NO temple that will be raised prior to his 2nd coming. Please re-read scripture.
Unsure about returning ALL the jews to isreal.
then you're wrong about being a direct bloodline from David. Again, please re-read scripture and it clearly states that in Matthew chapter 1.

I don't believe there are any prophecies from Jesus that have failed. I don't even think Jesus made "prophecies". Unless you are referring to Jesus talking about the end of days and what is to happen. Well, apparently there are things going on right now that are certainly leading up to this. So, you can say that he "failed", and i will say that these so called "prophecies" have not yet been fulfilled. Therefore, they have not yet failed.

what makes you think there is a god? What proof / evidence do you have to show us that "God" Exists?

Religion and the media. One of the most powerful tools on this planet, the ability to manipulate peoples minds and the way they think!

If you truly want to know the truth about this world. Forget everything you have been taught and watch what is going on around you.

We have lost all of our natural abilities, e.g knowing weather patterns, earthquakes and changes with the earth.

Originally posted by speaker


Hmmm....evidence.....now let me see......We're here aren't we? I'd say that's pretty conclusive evidence, wouldn't you?

yes very conclusive proof that we are here but not that god did it

I've done as much as I can to educate you on the flaws in your logic, I can do no more. I can't help it if you cannot comprehend it. You'll have to overcome that hurdle for yourself.

ok ill make sure i try real hard to use ilogic or no logic at every chance maybe them i can find god, shall i just stop thinking all together? will that help?

Try coming up with something I haven't already addressed next time, hey?

only if you come up with somthing better then you have so far

Originally posted by beach2197

well, you're wrong about (unless its just your opinion) Jesus not bringing peace. He turned alot of people and had many disciples. Many people followed him.

but thats not what the bible said he would do, by that measure L ron Hubbard is the messaih and we know he's a clown

so jesus didnt bring an end to all wars and bring world peace then .....

He did exactly what he was brought to Earth to do, and that was to die for all mankind's sins so that we may all be saved

but if he failed 1/2 the prophesies he isnt the messiah the old testament said would come, maybe he was satan pretending ....

then you're wrong about the temple being raised. There is NO temple that will be raised prior to his 2nd coming. Please re-read scripture.

ok be back in a minute .... where did i leave that kjv ... ahh here it is ...... ... ahh yes there it is still in there

Unsure about returning ALL the jews to isreal.

may as well check while the books open ....... yepp thats still there too

then you're wrong about being a direct bloodline from David. Again, please re-read scripture and it clearly states that in Matthew chapter 1.

1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary

way to make my point

he claims it through a blood line he doesnt have so failed that prophecy to

I don't believe there are any prophecies from Jesus that have failed. I don't even think Jesus made "prophecies". Unless you are referring to Jesus talking about the end of days and what is to happen.

good job im talking about prophesies made about the messiah when he comes then not ones jesus said

Well, apparently there are things going on right now that are certainly leading up to this.

are any of the disciples still alive like he said they would be?

So, you can say that he "failed", and i will say that these so called "prophecies" have not yet been fulfilled. Therefore, they have not yet failed.

well if he i comming to bring a war and destory everything then thats not really going to bring peace to all nations by the abolishing war or build the temple or return ALL the jews to isreal now is it?

maybe you should take another read, start at the fornt and keep going its really easy its ....umm... kinda like reading a book

[edit on 9/12/08 by noobfun]

Nothing to say to my comment?

Religion is good for people who need reasuring or have nothing else to turn to. It is also good for use in prison.

I am not against religion but i think people should be taught the truth!

reply to post by noobfun


HA! wow, i'm siding with you from now on...everything is so mixed up that it makes perfect sense.
Love your sig quote too.....but remember one thing....there are NO athiests in foxholes

[edit on 11-12-2008 by beach2197]

reply to post by Poet Of Deception


Yea, ok. I guess i'll say something...
First, I'm a believer of creation. Not the whole evolution thing. For me, there are too many fallouts on that man made "theory". It all sounds real good and intelligent with big words and all...until you get to the point where scientists just can't seem to connect anything together to transform that "theory" into fact. DNA strands just don't match up, and you'll never convince me that my ancestors were apes! (thats another discussion i guess)
Also, i saw a great program (on a religious tv station) about the great debate...evolution vs. creation. It was a while back, so I don't remember too much. It was talking about granite. How we think granite is formed over thousands and millions of years. This one scientist (and he's been published in scientific journals, don't remember his name) did a study and looked into granite through an electron microscope and saw "polonium ions??" he called them. Anyway, he made a case (through scientific analysis) that granite had to be formed instantaneously, and not over thousands/millions of years...something that has to do with the decay of atoms over time...like losing an electron or something.....Scientists have tried to debunk his discovery, but they can't becuase it makes so much sense and they do not believe in creation. Feel free to look it up, hope you can find it. if i come across it, i'll post.
i guess my proof/evidence would be to look around you here on earth. Plants come from seeds i guess? well where do the seeds come from that are needed to produce a plant? Maybe you'll say, "from the plants!" Ok, well where do the plants come from (whole "chicken or the egg thing") Look at the night sky. Look at the galaxies that are too far away. Look at the freaky looking fish that live at the bottom of the ocean. Here's something you might like to see.
[url=http://fathershands.com/accuracy/]

also, what "truth" are you wanting people to know?

reply to post by beach2197


actually the US military has a large percentage of athiests, and they take real exception to comments like that

www.atheistfoxholes.org...

Originally posted by beach2197

and you'll never convince me that my ancestors were apes!

might want to have a chat with Linneaus 18th century creationist scientist(chances are he's on your creationist scientist throughout history list) as he was the guy that said we were a type of ape, and suggest we were related in some way

It was talking about granite. How we think granite is formed over thousands and millions of years. This one scientist (and he's been published in scientific journals, don't remember his name) did a study and looked into granite through an electron microscope and saw "polonium ions??" he called them.

he has had real work peer reviewed and published before which is how he got his pulonium halo crap published (some science journals dont require every article to be peer reviewed) by using a back door in some journals, his research failed to prove they were caused by radiation, or pulonium

in fact he basically just made it up and never handed it to be checked by other scientists we have a thread about it here www.abovetopsecret.com...'

his work on this is about as scientific as disneys bambi is an accurate portrayl of deer rabbit social interaction

Plants come from seeds i guess? well where do the seeds come from that are needed to produce a plant? Maybe you'll say, "from the plants!" Ok, well where do the plants come from

Asexual reproduction is where the first plants come from, and many still do

so no chicken or egg, just the chicken splitting in two until it developed sexual reproduction,

[edit on 11/12/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by noobfun


Dude, seriously. you're hiliarious. my "saying" is not to be taken literally.......you're taking it waaayyy too far
plus, i could care less what the military has OR if they're offended