Originally posted by JamesTheScribe


If there was no life beyond Earth, existence would make no sense...and logic would be proven invalid...therefore, life beyond Earth must exist.

I'm not certain that is logical. I believe our universe is filled with life and that there are many sentient races out there. However I believe there's no point to it all, no purpose to life. I believe that we, and the probable trillions of alien races out there in our universe are merely a natural by-product.

Whether you're a human or an alien, a wolf or bacteria, you eat only to live long enough to procreate and die. Their procreations then eat to live long enough to procreate and die. The cycle is nearly endless but ultimately it is all pointless, someday our universe will collapse. Even if we manage to somehow find a way to move into other universes, those universes will someday collapse. Only if new universes are formed can the cycle go endlessly, but to what purpose? Self-indulgence perhaps.

Originally posted by skeptic_al

Show me anything that points to physical evidence of Alien origin.

Better yet, Ill steer you in the right direction if you wish to constructively participate in this study. In the OP, I stated quite clearly..

This thread has a simple goal. To move past the obvious and not discuss the validity of specific cases.. to address the phenomenon as a whole, and kind of take a general consensus, of what UFO's represent or actually are.

Then, to make sure I was perfectly clear, knowing that there would indeed be those who just skim through posts I further added:

I would prefer that people just post their beliefs, and not argue with other members about their particular "opinions", as this thread is meant to gather data and bring us ALL closer to an understanding of just WHAT the UFO enigma represents.

Again while I understand your frustration with this UFO phenomenon, I am not here to "push my beliefs". This thread is for research, I do not need to convince you or anyone for that matter I am merely collecting data at this time.

(UFO- MEANING : UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT) UFO does NOT mean ALIEN.

Being that I have NEVER said : "UFO's are of ALIEN ORIGIN" your argument has no merit. The true purpose of this thread is to try and make some sense of all this data. I believe as many others have stated, that this enigma is multi-faceted and occurring on many different levels. It is almost impossible to "categorize it" but that is the lofty goal of this thread. At best maybe we can narrow down the field to at least THREE of the highest probabilities and work from there.


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[edit on 1-12-2008 by Alter-Ego]

Originally posted by JamesTheScribe
If there was no life beyond Earth, existence would make no sense...and logic would be proven invalid...therefore, life beyond Earth must exist.

Nobody ever said life or existence had to make sense. The only thing life apparently does is allow the observation of things. A point of view allows one reality to be defined out of all the other virtual possibilities.

If we didn't exist, the universe wouldn't exist. But it's a holographic universe created by observation from the inside out. While I'm alive, the universe is a collective consensus. But I have no proof that it existed prior to me being born and becoming conscious. So when I personally die, the universe will simultaneously wink out of existence. All things that ever were and would ever be will be gone. And the same thing will happen when you die. Poof. All life on Earth, life anywhere else, matter/energy. All gone.

Does this make sense? Does it have a point? I can't see where it does. In order for something to have a point, there has to be a continuation. Without continuation, existence is truly pointless.

Originally posted by lifeform


how can anybody claim that they believe u.f.o's are real but offer a hoax as an explaination?


[edit on 30-11-2008 by lifeform]

Well, thank you for answering your own question. You went on to say:

anyhow, it's not very hard to conclude that something unknown is in the skies. its just knowing what they are. what now? we need serious research and monitoring of the skies, and also openess by those who conduct the research(no covering up data).

My list was put up AS AN EXAMPLE OF ANSWERS...

This thread has a simple goal. To move past the obvious and not discuss the validity of specific cases.. to address the phenomenon as a whole, and kind of take a general consensus, of what UFO's represent or actually are. Examples are:





* Aliens (from another planet)

* Beings (from another dimension)

* Atmospheric anomalies

* Top secret or experimental craft

* Angels or Demons

* Swamp gas

* Balloons, Chinese lanterns ect.

* Hoaxes

I listed those "EXAMPLES" so people would not be "led" into just posting suggested opinions...

Swamp Gas, Balloons and Hoaxes were added to try and allow for OPPOSING THEORIES OR OPINIONS which are paramount for any UNBIASED study, or debate.

Now why would a "researcher want to do that?!?! Again, I think you answered your own question...

...and also openess by those who conduct the research(no covering up data)...

EXACTLY!!
Any "researcher" who is worth their salt does not want the DATA contaminated with a "suggested outcome" that is why I have clearly NOT stated MY PERSONAL OPINION in the OP, and why I added those "EXAMPLES" to the list, to give a broader range of options or "EXAMPLES" to those who participate.



I hope I have adequately answered your questions, try re-reading the OP. If you have any more questions, I would be happy to try and answer them for you!

Originally posted by Alter-Ego

Originally posted by skeptic_al

Show me anything that points to physical evidence of Alien origin.

Better yet, Ill steer you in the right direction if you wish to constructively participate in this study. In the OP, I stated quite clearly..

This thread has a simple goal. To move past the obvious and not discuss the validity of specific cases.. to address the phenomenon as a whole, and kind of take a general consensus, of what UFO's represent or actually are.

Then, to make sure I was perfectly clear, knowing that there would indeed be those who just skim through posts I further added:

I would prefer that people just post their beliefs, and not argue with other members about their particular "opinions", as this thread is meant to gather data and bring us ALL closer to an understanding of just WHAT the UFO enigma represents.

Again while I understand your frustration with this UFO phenomenon, I am not here to "push my beliefs". This thread is for research, I do not need to convince you or anyone for that matter I am merely collecting data at this time.

(UFO- MEANING : UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT) UFO does NOT mean ALIEN.

Being that I have NEVER said : "UFO's are of ALIEN ORIGIN" your argument has no merit. The true purpose of this thread is to try and make some sense of all this data. I believe as many others have stated, that this enigma is multi-faceted and occurring on many different levels. It is almost impossible to "categorize it" but that is the lofty goal of this thread. At best maybe we can narrow down the field to at least THREE of the highest probabilities and work from there.


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[edit on 1-12-2008 by Alter-Ego]

Absolutely right, they are some that are unidentified. A very small %age.
There is no A in UFO.
But people are insisting these Unidentified are under some form of alien
intelligence. But the biggest part of U F O's are fakes. And their are some
that that will believe anything put in front of them, just makes the whole
problem worse.

Very interesting threat

Well let’s see, even if I’ve never seen an UFO or Alien nor other Beings nor Angels or Demons well I strongly believe that lifeform in a variety stage exist in this Universe or Universes or even beyond. I always wonder what beyond means.
I do believe that they, what or whoever they are, I would say that some of them are very similar with us that means they can be good type or bad type and some of them are far more intelligent and wise and some of them can be something that we can’t even imagine like shape, texture, way of living, see living craft. Who said that life can’t exist in some kind of environment that could kill us in a second or less? Do we have all the knowledge to say that ? And yes some of them are beings from other dimension or dimensions. I do believe that since I believe that technology is endless.

Why are they here on Earth or around well there can be multiple possibilities. The question is what we represent to them, or what is Earth for them.

My only regret is that we don’t have the tools yet for knowing .

A UFO is exactly what it is, an Unidentified Flying Object. I have personally witnessed them myself, so for me it is not a questionif they are real or not. The only question that remains is, who is flying them. There is far too much to the galaxy to believe we could be the only beings out there capable of being in possession of technology.

Originally posted by Alter-Ego


This thread has a simple goal. To move past the obvious and not discuss the validity of specific cases.. to address the phenomenon as a whole, and kind of take a general consensus, of what UFO's represent or actually are.

I almost spit out my milk (if I actually drank the cow puss) when I read this.

I am always amused by these types of post, self verification and dismissals of rebuttals.

If you are saying Unidentified Flying Objects are reals as in we just don't know what they are.. then OK, but if you mean extraterrestrial.. I would have to say...

No proof yet bro, your statements are a bit premature.



>>"OK, so UFO's are REAL..now what?"

LOL

Thats as bad as saying:

>>"OK, so GOD is REAL..now what?"

Saying it doesn't make it so.

What I believe and why:

I think I am the only one to post to this thread with this opinion. I believe we are witnessing the resurgence of the events mentioned in Genesis chapter 6. The non-canonical "Book of Enoch" gives us more detail about this theory if anyone is curious. This is quite complex and would be exhausting to spell out every detail, but I will try make it short.

Before the written word of God was available to man, it was not uncommon for angelic beings to be sent by God to teach man righteousness. There are numerous accounts of this in the Old Testament. However, because angels are spirits, and humans cannot directly see or interact with spirits, these angels had the ability to take upon themselves the form of flesh or physical bodies. The problem was that along with that flesh came also the temptations of the flesh, particularly lust. To make the story short, these angels fell into the sin of lust for human women. They began to have children with human women, creating a hybrid race of half human, half angelic beings.

Now, today we are hearing that a vast majority of abduction encounters are particularly focused on some sort of hybridization program. Another large part seems to be focused on preparation for apocalyptic events in the near future. This seems just too coincidental.

Now for the conclusion. I believe that the whole alien/UFO matter is a giant deception of the human race. If we as a human race believe that these are aliens from another planet, then we will likely dismiss the idea of God. They have already started their agenda of lies, telling abductees that they have been influencing us and our religious leaders for thousands of years. This will all end up with "aliens" declaring that they are our "creators" here to save us.

Now, I don't expect non-christians to put much weight in what I have shared here. However, as a christian, this is quite plausible to me.

Originally posted by gormly

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Live a little stop taking things so literal!

It's a "what if" understand the concept?

And by the way UFO's are real what they are on the other hand can be anything!

Anything from a Mylar balloons, to ducks, to planes or possibly little greys guys is cute little silver jumpsuits!

that's why they are unidentified!




[edit on 1-12-2008 by SLAYER69]

What I find particularly disturbing, while I have been collecting this data, is the fact that these "psudeo-skeptics" clamor for "proof" and scoff or totally ridicule the ET factor, they themselves are contaminating this study.



A word to "would be skeptics"...



While I welcome skeptical views this thread is not the proper venue for you to express your opinions.

If any "skeptics" have an apposing view and they would like to discuss that, Friday I will be tallying the results of PART ONE and starting the discussion of PART TWO. You will have free reign to voice your opinions and I encourage you to do so there.

If you value one shred of scientific impartiality, you will immediately cease and desist from arguing your stigmas on THIS thread.

People need not fear abuse of ridicule here as I want them to state THEIR PERSONAL BELIEFS, no matter what they are or why.

If you think UFO's represent extra-terrestrial life forms..then by GOD say so. Do NOT worry about "skeptics" trying to make you feel "ignorant" for your personal beliefs... I need YOUR truthful answers.

I will NOT sit idly by and let a few people contaminate this study. If you do not agree with the premise feel free to U2U me.. and Ill debate with you until the cows come home.




People please feel free to give your honest opinions of what you think UFO's represent or could be.. this is the place for it.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by Alter-Ego]

Originally posted by Alter-Ego
What I find particularly disturbing, while I have been collecting this data, is the fact that these "psudeo-skeptics" clamor for "proof" and scoff or totally ridicule the ET factor, they themselves are contaminating this study.

So ummm you expected anything different from the resident debunkers because...?

Its the same old story...

In the chemtrail threads its the debunkers who are on about evil chemicals but don't listen to what is said

In the Space Anomalies threads they see nothing but rock but for some reason feel the need to visit every thread on anomalies to tell us they see nothing but rocks ergo we are nuts

In the UFO threads they ALWAYS scream the UFO=Aliens thingy, no matter what you say...

Great thread... but don't expect them to stop their games because you asked them too. You must forgive them... they have no understand of the finer nuances of communication and your point in the OP went right over their head.

I was however surprised to find Ritzmann considered my critter theory 'interesting'

Like you I came to the conclusion they are real.

What do I think is going on?

-Earthly: Top secret program dollars at work
-Not Earthly: Visitors from our dimension and dimensions outside our own.

I will admit there are plenty more mundane "UFOs" then not but those that are not mundane? Well thats the question because once you accept non mundance sources you must conclude the goverment(s) know the truth and don't want to share this information.