OK, so UFO's are REAL..now what?

reply to post by oinkment

So unexplained lights in the sky are from this planet and are Earthly Phenonomen, any Unearthly Explanation I cannot explain as simply.

To clarify, your opinion is :


Atmospheric or Experimental craft?


I realize everyone has an opinion, but for brevity's sake, in this first part please state clearly what you think the phenom represents.

Great Thread sorry to be on the other side!

No apology necessary! We need everyones input! There is no RIGHT or WRONG side... This thread is for ALL of us. We need honest heart felt or even educated, theoretical, opinions.

Now for the purpose of "fact finding" or surveying, if possible let us try to stick to the below mentioned "criteria":

• Aliens (from another planet)
  
  
• Beings (from another dimension)
  
  
• Atmospheric anomalies
  
  
• Top secret or experimental craft
  
  
• Angels or Demons
  
  
• Swamp gas
  
  
• Balloons, Chinese lanterns ect.
  
  
• Hoaxes
  
  

This will assist in the final tally of data that we can then discuss the ramification's of these findings in PART TWO.


I understand that this enigma is multi-faceted. That truly, we cannot put a "label" on it at this stage. I am merely pushing this through to the next level which is, trying to gather information and a general "consensus" of what this mystery could represent. The purpose or progression of this research is as follows:


STAGE ONE-

Are UFO's are a reality- (YES)


STAGE TWO-

UFO's are widely believed to represent- (our answer here)


STAGE THREE-

What is the purpose or cause of this phenom-(our answer here)


STAGE FOUR-

What are the ramifications of these findings if any- (our answer here)





Thank you all for your input so far.

The sub-industry that has grown around UFOs and the dubious characters associated with it has tainted the whole notion of extraterrestrial visitations.

There may be lifeforms with intelligence that don't function within the same compacted molecular framework that we as manmmals do. They could be like a complex computer program, a vast assemblage of interacting atomic particles that would only be detectable on a powerful microscope.

The most successful lifeform on our planet, bacteria, are only aware of us as a moving part of their environment that is a rich source of residence and nutrition. Maybe bacteria just make us do what we do to create new and different opportunities for them.

I'm open to anything. I do not think there are Greys of the current model of big head/big eyes developed infant types out there in saucer shaped ships that move across the skies but avoid contact. That's too naive to expect.

The big problem will be even recognizing when we are dealing with another intelligence and finding ways to communicate with it.


Mike F

The Internet in general has done great harm to this topic. Most of the photo's and video's are in fact fakes or simply misidentified lights, blurred birds, insects or other such nonsense.

I have believed for many years there have been authentic sightings. I think it is entirely possible that we are being visited by curious beings from elsewhere.

Right now I think many UFO sightings are military or experimental craft also.

With the flood of You Tube fakes and images of tiny lights, I'm afraid many will loose interest altogether. What a shame. Most of the posts on ATS lately are a waste of time.

I do think the recent triangular shaped craft are secret military prototypes. They clearly exist but there is no reason to think them Alien.

As to the Reptilians. I was long a go a child and prone to fantasies such as that. I at one time believed in Santa Clause.

There are too many reports for me to dismiss the whole phenomena. They can't all be misidentified or hoaxes. As to what they are? Hmm .. I tend to favor that some are man made, and some are indeed alien. Hell for all I know or can prove, they are all just giant M & M s that have come to tease us with their chocolate goodness.

Peace

reply to post by mmiichael


Hi, so .. I guess you'll be in the "Swamp Gas" camp? While I appreciate your opinion and your views are quite relevant to this enigma, you seemed to miss the point of this particular thread.

UFO's are a REALITY. They are a fact. No matter how bad you want to 'wish them away' or scoff, ridicule or deny (not saying that you are, mmiichael ) their existence, they are here.


The purpose of this thread is to figure out WHAT they (UFO's) are.

For example, some people have said that the craft themselves are living entities. That they possess the ability to grow and shrink and seem to have a 'personality' or be an actual life form, not simply a "nuts and bolts" craft.



(Please see the post above yours for directions)

Theres NO question of if they are real, the question is when an official announcement will be made. Personally, i believe the time will be 2009 sometime.

What do I believe is out there?
ETs from somewhere other than Earth (obviously).

Do i think they are hostile?
Not until we piss them off.
In which case, they are so advanced, they will destroy us all.

Do i think they will help the Earth economically, or with g-warming?
lol, are you serious? lol, no

Do i believe that they are here among us hiding and studying us?
Absolutely.

They wont be disclosed until the time comes that they CANT be denied
(an obvious visit). Not some weak-ass lights in the sky or a radio-active spot in the forrest where they "landed", i mean obvious.

Originally posted by oinkment
I don't think they are REAL at all!

Most Modern Sightings are in keeping with current Trends(memes) and technologies. I think a advanced civilisations technology would be indistinguishable from magic and we probably wouldn't see Alien Spaceships at all (just like the Aboriginies couldn't see Cpt. Cooks ships as they could not fathom something that big with men on it on the water). If we could they would be at around the same technology as us and that means they probably would'nt be capable of Faster Than Light Travel which they would need to travel from star-system to star-system. It seems really unlikely to me that Aliens would zip around in the odd 2 man saucers over the past 50-75 years and let themselves be photographed. Surely its more likely that our Planet Would be hit by a wave of colonisation and we would either be threatened with extinction or assimilation by a more benign species. (I am not really interested in so-called ancient sightings as they can easily be explained as Ritualistic Paintings or artistic license)

Its interesting that someone on this thread used Occams Razor to make a point for UFO's being Alien, I would also like to use the Razor to make mine -

The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae ("law of parsimony" or "law of succinctness"): "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem", roughly translated as "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity"

This is often paraphrased as "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."

So unexplained lights in the sky are from this planet and are Earthly Phenonomen, any Unearthly Explanation I cannot explain as simply.

So, at the moment no UFO pic I have seen convinces me of unworldly technology, Is it any coincidence that the "cigar" shaped ufo's are hard'y seen now yet were a common sighting when there were lots of Airships and Zeppilins travelling around the world? Then the Triangles and Saucers that The Nazi's built and of course the British and US millitary. As most of the rest of the unexplained sightings get proven as fakes or explained by a more reasonable explanation I am likely to keep this belief till anything radical changes. Its a shame really becuase I would love to believe but theres not enough hard evidence out there for me yet.....


Great Theread sorry to be on the other side!

[edit on 29-11-2008 by oinkment]

"cigar" ufos have been reported by several pilots (www.youtube.com... , www.youtube.com... , etc) , and what they reported could not have been an "airship" or "zeppilin". The saucers that the Nazi's built could barely get off the ground. Sorry but your skepticism fails, you're just stuck in denial, the only thing that'd make you see the truth is if you get abducted by aliens.

They're aliens, and they've been observing us for a long time. There must be thousands of alien races in our galaxy, and there's probably some alien races that have even managed to discover a method to travel between galaxies.

The most advanced races have most likely formed a universal government. The popular Sci-Fi game Mass-Effect has a decent illustration of how this universal government might work.

So why are we being observed? They are likely trying to determine if we are worthy of joining their universal government. There's probably also some "alien space police" orbiting our planet protecting us from rogue alien races.

They are fallen angels. I believe they come from Uranus.

Originally posted by Alter-Ego
For example, some people have said that the craft themselves are living entities. That they possess the ability to grow and shrink and seem to have a 'personality' or be an actual life form, not simply a "nuts and bolts" craft.

Yes some ufos are actually living entities. The S-4 video is the best evidence of this that i've seen. I highly recommend watching the documentary 'Ships of Light - The Carlos Diaz UFO Experience' for some evidence of another type of living entity UFO.

These energy life forms, I wonder what their status is among other alien races.

I'm just an average gal and while you say it as though it were just widely accepted truth, I have to say that I have never seen anything that has convinced me there are UFOs out there. Now don't get me wrong, I have always believed that there is likely something out there. I mean it would be a bit self centered to believe we are the only things out here in this great big universe and beyond. However all of the 'proof' I have seen posted over the years here at ATS has never quite been fully convincing. Why is it that most 'proof' is so blurry anyways?

So while I'd like to speculate on what it could be, I have to say I'm not convinced that it is indeed UFO.

reply to post by MaMaa


I do understand your position. Had I not witnessed a UFO in my face 13 years ago.. I would probably be in your shoes. However, I did see a UFO in my face ((about 20 feet ..slowly gliding over my car) so I can say unequivocally that UFO's are INDEED real... I saw one, and so have many others. We do not need to be "convinced". They are here. We KNOW.

I want to know just WHAT these things are. Thank you so much for your thoughts, they are important and help us to remain grounded and focused.

the FALLEN ONES
or
the greys are bio-robots sent to recon- the outerworld
from HOLLOW-EARTH (hallow earth theory)

I aslo believe it to be more of the multiple phenomenon I would say most cases would probably be alien in variety. Most of what I have seen that I believe would fall into this catagory.
Second I would say would come human technology although having not witnsessed anything I believe to fall into this catagory I don't subscribe to this theory 100% but I do believe it to be most likely true.
What I find curious are the so called light ships, which if descriptions are correct I would say would have to be something of other dimensional origin which just opens up a whole other bag. My most profound experience I believe may have been with this type of ship but only having witnessed it from close below I have no way of knowing what type only that it could not have been human technology.
Of course you can't leave out the fact that many sightings are merely mistaken identity because either the person does not have enough knowledge of what they are seeing or they don't look at the other possibilities.
And then obviously there are the many hoaxes out there which pollute the whole subject and add fuel for the non believers

reply to post by Alter-Ego


IMO

Everything you listed except for aliens and angels/demons.

I believe that life in the universe exists, but until I see one with my own eyes I cannot believe they are visiting the earth.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by drock905]

reply to post by Alter-Ego



Some wait for our development.

Some use our resources and terra form areas to their liking

However the grey's are nothing more than a bio-mechanical recorder in a humanoid like body. They still require nutrition to function but not in the way that we know it. They have absorption points throughout their bodies, much like the pores in our skin. Their eyes have been designed to see many spectrums including infrared and gases. That is why they are drawn to the cows, for the methane gases they expel. These designed bio-machines do not have reproductive organs and they do not have a bladder or intestines. So they are curious about many things including flatulence and other things that seem strange to be emitted from living organisms. They are also very curious about nuclear material, which has been quite obvious with their buzzing around military storage facilities. They may have been instructed to disable such weapons due to the fact that when they detonate they cause destruction at all levels of dimension.

Our entire planet is a study in progress, they understand the human intelligence and try to avoid detection, know that it would bring their own destruction. They may have been preprogrammed with a specific message for the human race, and that would be the only time they make contact. The other 98% of the time they are observing and doing tests through abductions and, well mutilations.

They have only been here a short time.

But there are others, such as the beings who contacted Billy Meier, those beings have in fact been here for thousands of years and have helped us develop over the ages.

There is much more, and it has all been discussed before. We are but a tiny spec of cosmic dust in an electric Universe which is bound by natural harmony and with frequencies of every level.

Just enjoy the ride

Good thread.

I believe that some UFO's are of alien origin.

Why? Because they are doing exactly what we are doing. We've been sending our advanced probes into space for decades to study our Solar System. They are doing the same- only on a much more advanced level.

Lets hope you can derive some interesting results from all of this and come up with a thought-provoking anaylisis.

FLAG, so that this gets more attention.

My personal belief is that MOST of the UFO's are simply military aircraft on testing rounds, especially the earlier photographs from post WW2. I also believe that a smaller amount are elaborate hoaxes, some look real others dont.

But i do believe that there has been extra terrestrial craft flown on Earth, whether by humans or by aliens? I dont know.

Heres the way i look at it, more simply:

Aircraft: 40-50%
Hoaxes: 20-30%
Simple objects (balloons, etc): 10-20%
Alien craft: 5-10%

Once again, i simply dont know, every way i think about it i go back tot he start.

Originally posted by Alter-Ego
reply to post by MaMaa

 

I do understand your position. Had I not witnessed a UFO in my face 13 years ago.. I would probably be in your shoes. However, I did see a UFO in my face ((about 20 feet ..slowly gliding over my car) so I can say unequivocally that UFO's are INDEED real... I saw one, and so have many others. We do not need to be "convinced". They are here. We KNOW.

I want to know just WHAT these things are. Thank you so much for your thoughts, they are important and help us to remain grounded and focused.

I agree that many need no convincing, but I can't help but think that the majority of people need it. I have a feeling that a lot of people could have a little green man walk up and shake their hand and they still would not believe. My mom always taught us that we would be incredibly conceited to think we were the only intelligent creatures god created so the very idea of UFOs has always been a very real possibility. I once saw 'something', but not knowing for sure what it was I can't just say it was a UFO. We were over at a gas station about to pull away and I saw this black thing up in the sky. I stopped and pointed it out to my boys (I have four) as we like to watch planes. Well it was this black sort of triangular plane looking thing. (sounding familiar? LOL) We watched it and I figured it was some sort of military something or other. We are in Northern Colorado for what it is worth. UNTIL it went straight up, like not tilting and moving nose up like a plane would, but staying in that flat position and went straight up like a hover craft sort of a thing. The boys and I sort of looked at each other wondering what the heck we saw. We kept watching it and it was flipping end over end and going in circles like it was just playing about up there. Then it shot off south wards really fast. The boys and I were just befuddled and I still don't know what it was.

It would be easy to just say 'oh that was a UFO' I don't need to be convinced anymore and I guess in a way I have. However I don't know for a fact what it was, I didn't see aliens and for all I know it could have been some military plane of some sort. I think a lot of people are like that, until all of the 'well it could be xxx' explanations are totally gone then there is no convincing to be had. Until some UFO lands on the white house lawn and the president tells the entire world that there are aliens amongst us then I don't think everyone will be convinced. Isn't it interesting though how it takes so much convincing over this particular issue, yet people are so easily led and so gullible in many other ways.

I believe the sightings are real. Abductions have always occured. More direct and visible visits occured earlier in history when humans were less technically sophisticated. Nearly 100% of ETs will find earth plant and animal substances to be toxic or of no food value...most ETs will have self-modified themselves beyond digestion reliance anyway. And most non-sol system ET "visitors" will be wholly integrated AI-craft systems with perhaps extravehicular cyborg units capable of movement and communicatipon. Non earth sol-sytem visitors will be here primarily for large scale mineral mining on other planets and moons (He3) and make "side trips" to life-planets as diversions and their own archives just as they do in other sol systems. Depending on their evolutionary/environmental home, Et might not be predatory as we understand it (for territory or food) but can be functionally oriented to results and objectives so they might appear to be cruel and without conscience ...as humans might so appear to our lower" earh animals. ET might also have evolved/self-modified novel (to us) communication abilities. ET biochem will not match that of humans. They might rarely breathe our air but will "make" alternate versions of themselves for long term contact with earth... hundreds of years or more.

I believe UFO's have been seen for thousands of years and described according to the technical level of the times in bible passages, more ancient tablets, and throughout the world. I believe there are many various visitors and travelers in our solar syatem and throughout "space" just going about their purposes. I believe energy is a primary interstellar currency.

Currently, I suspect the sightings are of several origins:
1 Human advanced craft (triangles eg) - American, Russian, Japanese
[! those that have bright lights, especially red, green etc, veiled shapes (cloaked), aerodynamic]
2 ET- our solar system
(strange odors, ancient descriptions such as feathered snakes which are descriptions of reptillian forms with gill structures from a liquid world; piloted by EBs or machine AI systems)
3 ET - other solar systems
(sudden appearances, saucers, spheres; Time-Space displacement drives; craft are cyborg entities;
4 ET - Extradimensional
(shape changing, spherical forms that disappear)
5 Human - Future (extradimensional)
why not. We are almost there with technol advancing beyond nanotek to Planck scale "tek" which will take us into string membranology so we will eventually be able to dial" in what alternate realitites along whatever time path we wish.

All ET visitors are here to study us and our other life forms. They appear to practice non-involvement just as humans do when studying Ant, Gorilla/Chimp/Whale socialization and life. But occasionally ET selects a "specimen" human/earth animal for hands-on inspection; and they use advanced "anesthetic" technols involving direct manipulation of human brain E/M functions. Also, they are/have been gentically modifying/hybridizing human-ET strains just as we are doing in our own fairly recent earth interspecies genetic modification experiments.

To repeat an common idea - if ET had bad intentions we would have known about it since there is nothing we can do to stop them. I truly doubt that we have combatted ET craft with our prop/jet fighters. We might have some crashed craft but these are most likely from our solar system. ET craft propulsion systems are different from our Newtonian drive systems and vastly more effective at overcoming gravity but the principle is elementary when one thinks about it.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by havanaja]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by havanaja]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by havanaja]

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[edit on 29-11-2008 by havanaja]

Sorry to burst your bubble of hope and your honest attempt to locate (subjective) inquiries. But you will never know what is behind this phenomenon. Only an elite few understand its intention, or intentions. Unless you organize a massive group that march towards the nation's capitol with pitch forks demanding disclosure will have an ounce of possibility. The UFO phenomenon is so complex and muffled with both focused and blurred distinctions that this confusion is exactly what they want. Hence your list of potencial possibilities and you know who they are. Or do you?

I will not waste any of my fellow readers time with fancy ism's or terms ending with 'tion' and put toss aside any philosophical debate. You can read an endless stack of books, publish countless blogs, make movies, documentaries, interview witnesses, whatever! Disclosure is not going to happen. Why?

Take a look around your surroundings. Watch the local and national news. Go for a drive down main street. Check out your local mall. Go to church. Watch cable TV. Check your Facebook or Myspace profile. Have you updated your new cell phone account? Payed your credit card bill? Fill your tank? The list of material needs go on.

Are we really ready? Really?

The thread you request will only lead to redundant arguments.

However. All the best with your intentions. Perhaps it might spark something, but I highly doubt it.

Sincerely. Someone who know to much.