I like 'one of the 'tests' is Radio 4, mate they will scan the country for any sign of life, so yes, the BBC World Service will be on one of their checks. Come on.

The SAS mission would have used a C-130 to hit the base ; but it would have been a 1 way ticket as the C-130 wouldn`t have made it back , so the plan was to crash it on or near the runway and then take as much `out` before the team were killed or captured the last possibility was an overland extraction but was deemed too difficult.

Regarding comment by "Elf": With out being to harsh, I don't think I have ever heard such simple non-sense as "weapons are the cause of war". Then it must of course follow fires are the result of having fire departments. Having degrees in science and history, and knowing how they are joined at the hip, you have to look at this issue from two major points of view. First the evidence that nations that want something that someone else has, and a perception that "prize" can be taken without much risk to an aggressor, invites war. WW-2 is a lovely example of this; much uf Europe and others such as the US hoped the Nazis would just go away if no one threatened them. Peace in our time, Ok... In truth prior to the invasion of Poland (which by the way was co-ordinated from west AND east, the Russians grabing what they could, the result of the then secret Hitler/Stalin pact to carve up a state considerably weaker in military terms then Germany or Russia alone). The Poles as we know payed most dearly.

But the second important part of this equation is the security of major weapons, and the need to make it very clear for all sides if you cross this line, we will call "X", bad things will happen. Period. To explain this further during the good old cold war the two major players; US/USSR, and minor players had SECURE nuclear forces with multiple command-and-control, ALWAYS based on both several technological, political, and "other" componants. As I saw it in effect happen, our nations would engage in this utterly bizzare "Kaboki Dance" with the simple objective of saying; "your making me/us nervous. This required postering, which is very hard to get past the other guys "giggle factor" with an MX missle version of a blow-up sex toy.

Last, while I'm on the subject of why it's important for any nation to have a "true" hardware and policy based deterent, I would like to offer my view I think is the main reason, why after so many times, we all came SO CLOSE to nuclear war several times since 1949. Consider this: When you hear the words "nuclear" or more visceral words "atomic weapons", tell me what image you see in your mind. I don't see the fist test at Alamagordo NM, or the vast facility at Hanford WA, or a B-29. I see the horror of the physical images of the victums in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think when ever the idea of letting the nukes fly crosses the mind of someone who could make it happen, it has to give them pause. In a dreadfull and very terrible way, the agony of the peole of Nagasaki and Hiroshima may have given us from that time, a future.

Now that reflexive equation no longer applies. I guess terrorists, the Iranians, North Koreans, etc, just don't know or care how to dance...



an agressive action just one to be able to protect itself from another. means the ability to protect one nation from another.

Originally posted by arbiture
Regarding comment by "Elf": With out being to harsh, I don't think I have ever heard such simple non-sense as "weapons are the cause of war".

Arbiture I did not quote that I said:

The Preparation of War is the Cause of War

A very different kettle of fish. And I did mean it in regards to this thread subject, being Nuclear War or abilities.

I Should of probably clarified it's relation more.

Good post though, but on this topic, If we did not have as I postulated such huge numbers of these as you too describe them also generally as, terrible weapon's there would not be the possibility of such a Insane action ever taking place.

So I think in this sense that statement is true.

Without the preparation of Nuclear War, or exchange and use of such things it would be impossible to have a Nuclear war, if the weapons never existed in the first place.

As you rightly say we have come close on several occasions, once as well Yeltsin I believe due to a breakdown in communications, where a Normal Scientific commercial rocket was fired from the Swedish I think, or those countries near by, had 7 minutes to Make the decision whether to press the button.
The Information passed on from the country that it was firing a Rocket Missile, which showed a trajectory, that if it was Ballistic would have gone to Moscow, got lost in the Soviet command somewhere, and he was awoken with the "trigger" as such in the early hours.

It very nearly resulted in the Soviets/Russia launching an Nuclear retaliation by mistake and only human judgement, he waiting until the very last minute when it was realised it would re-enter etc that saved the world or at least a large part of Europe from aniliation.

Humans cant be trusted with such decisions to never make a mistake, and the stakes are too large IMHO for such preparation.

Also the Neo-Cons and pentagon seem to have really really upped the stakes and want to, and seem to believe that a Limited exchange is possible and feaseable on the battlefield or justified in bunker Busting type actions.

As to Nagasaki well, I wont even go there that was the sickest science experiment of all time, and is no different if not worse than what the Nazi's did in experiments on humans in the camps, my opinion only but I stand by it.

Hiroshima could have happened 10 miles of the coast with forewarning to the Japanese, and contrary to popular belief I think upon "seeing" it and its power, and some spin that they had 50 or so ready to drop within say 36 hours all over Japan, they would have surrendered.

Proliferation is a real issue, just looking at issues now in India and Pakistan which is probably the most likely arena for any exchange show this, How many and who will have them in 10 and 20 yrs time. I am very worried we have as a race started down this path and it seems inevitable that one day soon a Nuclear event will happen. Once it does again it could quickly become normalised as such in a limited way which too easily could lead to all out use.

Madmen and Insanity often rules nation states as in your wisdom of the subject History has shown time and time again. I feel we should as a people, Humans world wide not trust the entire worlds survival to such people with such power to wipe us all out soo quickly and horrendously.

Lets be fair the US seems to have "lost" some recently with some of the best security procedures in the world, what if a real Pakistan coup happened?

The thought is soo dangerous we should realise that just because most of us have grown up with them being there since our births, it is not normal or acceptable in any way, either the dangers, costs or environmentally.

Originally posted by Niall197
I was surprised to hear the weapons drill on board HMS Vanguard, "Set Condition 1SQ" (for missile launch).

It was Crimson Tide Nial, and showed in graphic detail what I mention above about the Communication issue, and the dangers of Madmen or very "sure" but misguided people with their fingers on the trigger.

Brilliant film.

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 3-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]