Victim of matriarch rule

seagrass,

Wow!! Very interesting post. I agree with you about the competition/cattiness among women. While not all women choose to go this route it is much more common than even most men are aware.
I admire women who recognize this for what it is and choose not to play or compete. There are a few here on ATS/BTS whom I respect for this trait.

Men are just more competitive on a different level and also men among men..a mans man...knows instinctively when to stop the nonsense..styling and profiling and work for and with the team. Those who dont or drag their feet and hold things up ...very quickly get a mark put upon them. They quickly become ostracized as being untrustworthy..undependable towards the goals needed or needing to be accomplished. In many jobs or occupations this means overtime ...as these people cannot hack it on straight time ..we dont need them on overtime...get someone else...not them.

I agree with you ..seeing how each contributes or conversely causes problems is key.

I am on a team of 8 people who are trained and specially qualified to install uranium fuel cells in nuclear reactors.

You can bet we dont appreciate drama queens or those specializing in "Victim Dictum practices to play through unquestioned and undebated...unchallanged ..by default. We are begining to see more and more of them now days. They work on a sense of entitlement. And I am talking about males ...not females. I have quickly deduced that many of these males have been breastfed for to long. They have survived by working the system..not on their own merits and demerits. They tend to bring confusion to the work place..not team effort. What was amazing to me is that some of these people come out of the military. I am forced to ask what the standards actually are for the military??
I find these kinds of men to be very feminine in thier own way. Not female per se..but feminine. By this I mean in the flesh...in the things of this world.

Working as part of a team means you must learn when and how to leave the things of this world behind long enough to accomplish the task. You are not so selfish or provincial that one cannot understand this and when to leave individuality and self interest behind and work with and for a team.

I too like peace and comfort ..but also know I cannot remain there and must go out into the world and among the "wildlife" to earn my moneys.
I have no illusions about what is out there.

I want to make note of something very different about men and women...in the work place.

As a rule ..men take and understand risk on a very different level than do most women. This is not to say that women do not take risk..they most certainly do. Most are just not as ready to face it as do most men.

I want to qualify this about some men now days. Their ability to not take risks is very akin to many women. They are not as eager as their fathers to step out on the tree limb..so to speak but would rather stay back and let others do it. I see many of them who would rather sit back at the coffee pot, microwave, drink and snack machines when the going gets rough. This number and quantity of men is growing ...noticably.
Another couple of generations of this stuff and this nation is going to be in trouble...and so too the women and children.
The men will be at fault here for this.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Ok, so I see your point that men should be expected to be able to cook, clean and other household duties. They should also be expected to hold down a decent job as well.

Fine. I completely agree. Frankly then women have no further use in a household then. Of course in an ideal situation, both a man and a woman that cohabitate together should share the daily household duties and also they should then equally share in the financial matters as well.

I guess that women then need to get over that wage disparity. Get a job that pays equal to that of a man doing the same amount of work, and be able to climb up on the roof and patch a hole or perhaps unclog the toilet that inexplicably gets clogged up every 28 days or so. Oh and that mousetrap over there isn't going to empty itself. Im busy washing the dishes, doing the laundry and making dinner. I am sure that if all is equal than you won't mind disposing of that rodent carcass would you?

Originally posted by seagrass
victim dictum...

why yes... taking responsibility is hard for people some times. And being able to see how each adds to the problem is key.

My problem with the working world has mostly been about how it becomes competitive verses a team effort, and that has usually come from women. Men have been working in teams longer than women.

Horrible women are the worst. However corporations talk about “team effort” and women are on average more likely to refer to the achievements of others and use terms like “we”. Corporations may say they want team effort, but in reality they promote the “individual achievers”. And those that come off as individual achievers are not afraid to say “I did this”.

The main thing to know about the business world is there are not NEARLY so many rules (written or unwritten) as many of us think. And most of what passes for reality is simply “perception”. How you are perceived by your superiors is the reality. Took me 25 years in the working world to figure that one out, because I always thought it was about fairness and honesty and hard work. LOL. Work means producing, and taking credit for it.

As hard as it can be, don't let the catty stuff get you down. And make sure your contributions are SEEN by those that count. Don't think it is bragging, it is typical masculine behavior. There is a reason many female bosses are overly aggressive, it is because those traits are deemed positive by their male superiors.


[edit on 29-12-2008 by Sonya610]

funny you should mention rodent carcasses, as I found one in the basement yesterday. He put the trap out.. but I guess he forgot to check it... and it is now attaching itself to the floor by what means I am not sure. When I went to pull the trap up it came with the head only.. and the body is still stuck to the floor.
I guess I should grab a dustpan and scoop it up, and then disinfect the floor... but something told me maybe he needed to see that headless body on the floor.. but then that most likely wont happen and I will clean it up anyway....

I kill the spiders around here too.
Not all women like ladders, but I have fixed plenty around here. Maybe there are types of women out there you have never met.

I'm not a plumber, but Illusionsaregrander is... and one smart babe I might add.
I finished the concrete on our patio better than the professionals did in the front I think.
and yes, I want the same pay for the same job, who wouldn't.

whatukno,

I dont have much use for women or men in a household who are high maintenance. My brother stayed with me for a bit over a year till I figured out I wasnt doing him any favors letting him freeload off me. He was actually dumb enough one day to speak of it as an entitlement to my other paying roomates. I finally told him he had to go.

I also dont have much respect for a man who cannot maintain a household without a big breast to feed him constantly. A man should be self sufficient. This leaves him free to come to a woman for love...just as it would leave a woman likewise. I have known numbers of males who upon leaving home had to constantly bring laundry home to Momma because they were inept or to lazy to do this but had beer and cigarettes. What a bunch of wusses.

As to womens wage disparity..if women were in fact doing the work that men are doing ..and doing a better job of it...companys would be firing all the males and hiring women who would work cheaper. As a matter of fact they would be firing both males and females if they could and hiring illegal aliens....they definitely work cheaper. Makes alot of the argument about wage disparity pretty nonsensical.
Women usually take more time off. Take more leaves of abscence, reluctant to travel for the companys. more expensive facilities, more medical etc . None of these informations are in the statistics that the wage disparity types like to quote.
This is why I am seldom impressed with statistics or census data.

As to sharing daily household duties....does that mean a woman is going to help me with my maintenance chores on a home...take risks to get them done......or sit back in the comfort zone and direct???
What you see in many of the articles is women complaining that males are not helping them with household labor. They are not complaining or even discussing about helping thier male with his traditional chores. Nor is this concept found in any statistic...census informations. No rocket material needed to see this for what it is. The male is expected to help her by working ...his job..labor...then help her with her household chores and then do his part ..his chores around the home..no safety net for him.
I can see that one coming miles away.

It is not that difficult to empty a mousetrap...rat trap et al. I have built traps big enough to trap cats...possums...et al. Just got out from under my home replacing some of the kitchen PVC Drain piping. Took some doing ..calculating, planning, cutting and fitting..but I got it done. No safety net for me from modern independent self sufficient women I know. Not happening. They are not into crawling under there with me...even at this time of year when most of the nastys are hibernating or dormant.

Agree with Sonya about the perception. Also her point about the cattiness as well as was also the point of Seagrass. I dont think alot of women evolved in this arena so to speak...when they came out of the caves.

Hey!! ...I didnt know Illusionsaregrander is a plumber!! I sure could have used thier help this weekend. I could have directed from the cheap seats and been flashdanced through my weekend plumbing problems while reclining in comfort...and batting my eyes!!!
I also did not know for a long time that Illusionsaregrander was female.

As to being a team player and individuality....perception. I prefer to work the graveyard shift. More Indians less chiefs. I dont particularly like to many people knowing to much about what I can and cannot do. Hence I prefer the back shifts. Not much of a "Daywalker " here ..nor a social person. But when one works with a good qualified team..no matter what shift or job ..it makes the work go smoothly and with more safety/confidence. It is difficult to keep such a team together. The natural tendency is often to break them up and spread them around.

Thanks,
Orangetom

whatukno,

I dont have much use for women or men in a household who are high maintenance. My brother stayed with me for a bit over a year till I figured out I wasnt doing him or myself any favors letting him freeload off me. He was actually dumb enough one day to speak of it as an entitlement to my other paying roomates. I finally told him he had to go.

I also dont have much respect for a man who cannot maintain a household without a big breast to feed him constantly. A man should be self sufficient. This leaves him free to come to a woman for love...just as it would leave a woman likewise. I have known numbers of males who upon leaving home had to constantly bring laundry home to Momma because they were inept or to lazy to do this but had beer and cigarettes. What a bunch of wusses.

As to womens wage disparity..if women were in fact doing the work that men are doing ..and doing a better job of it...companys would be firing all the males and hiring women who would work cheaper. As a matter of fact they would be firing both males and females if they could and hiring illegal aliens....they definitely work cheaper. Makes alot of the argument about wage disparity pretty nonsensical.
Women usually take more time off. Take more leaves of abscence, reluctant to travel for the companys. more expensive facilities, more medical etc . None of these informations are in the statistics that the wage disparity types like to quote.
This is why I am seldom impressed with statistics or census data.

As to sharing daily household duties....does that mean a woman is going to help me with my maintenance chores on a home...take risks to get them done......or sit back in the comfort zone and direct???
What you see in many of the articles is women complaining that males are not helping them with household labor. They are not complaining or even discussing about helping thier male with his traditional chores. Nor is this concept found in any statistic...census informations. No rocket material needed to see this for what it is. The male is expected to help her by working ...his job..labor...then help her with her household chores and then do his part ..his chores around the home..no safety net for him.
I can see that one coming miles away.

It is not that difficult to empty a mousetrap...rat trap et al. I have built traps big enough to trap cats...possums...et al. Just got out from under my home replacing some of the kitchen PVC Drain piping. Took some doing ..calculating, planning, cutting and fitting..but I got it done. No safety net for me from modern independent self sufficient women I know. Not happening. They are not into crawling under there with me...even at this time of year when most of the nastys are hibernating or dormant.

Agree with Sonya about the perception. Also her point about the cattiness as well as was also the point of Seagrass. I dont think most women evolved in this arena so to speak...when they came out of the caves.

Hey!! ...I didnt know Illusionsaregrander is a plumber!! I sure could have used thier help this weekend. I could have directed from the cheap seats and been flashdanced through my weekend plumbing problems while reclining in comfort...and batting my eyes!!!
I also did not know for a long time that Illusionsaregrander was female.

As to being a team player and individuality....perception. I prefer to work the graveyard shift. More Indians less chiefs. I dont particularly like to many people knowing to much about what I can and cannot do. Hence I prefer the back shifts. Not much of a "Daywalker " here ..nor a social person. But when one works with a good qualified team..no matter what shift or job ..it makes the work go smoothly and with more safety/confidence. It is difficult to keep such a team together. The natural tendency is often to break them up and spread them around.

Thanks,
Orangetom