Originally posted by citizen smith

Originally posted by infinite

stumason was very true with his words, if you do not understand the significance of 1642 then there is no point proclaiming your rights.

Wasn't 1642 significant for the arrest of Sir Winston Churchill for planting gunpowder under St Paul's Cathedral to blow up the Pope?

My mistake, i thought it was the year that Sir Winston Churchill's anti-social behavior order was handed out to him....

possession of an offensive weapon....was later found to be a cigar and NOT a baseball bat...

Well I am American but I lived in England for a few months around 7 years ago and I remember learning some stuff about British government and the role of the queen. Couldn't she be an intermediary between all this mess that you guys have between the Labour and Tory parties? Especially with this new event occurring? I mean...we have the democrats and republicans but they don't bicker as much as the tories and labours do Then again british people do whine a lot. One thing I miss about the old UK.

Interesting, but mate, you cite THE DAILY MAIL....as some kind of evidence. Could you have used a more unreliable source?!?!?!

Not clever. At all.

I see our two law students are off on the arse kicking route for anyone not of the crown born! Anywho I've not been following this story what-so-ever is someone going to break it down for the lay man and spout out what he's done?

What I want to hear is that this guy has come in to possession of a secret document that states the bail money has been used to create and elite space ark or precursor to a socialist state or something.

What I don't want to hear - he was stoned and bummed some guy in a bush at Hampstead heath.

But this is what makes me question potential government involvement. A bill from the upcoming Queens Speech:

Constitutional renewal: Creates an Independent Commission for the Civil Service. Gives MPs final say on treaties. Strips Attorney General of right to intervene in prosecutions. Reduces role of Lord Chancellor in appointing judges below High Court level. Removes restrictions on protests in Westminster.

Parliament gets significant powers within this new bill, especially the final command on international treaties and oversight of the Civil Service.

This is certainly a statement about where our government is heading, down the same route as the Bush administration and a Police state where anything is acceptable under the guise of "defense" and "anti-terrorism".

When an opposition party member is held and questioned by a Police force when he clearly has not broken the law, it indicates a leadership is over-stepping the mark and operating as a dictatorship would.

If the leadership truly had no idea that this was about to happen, then the government have to make an example of the force and remove all heads of department.

Our government now has two choices; either admit that they knew what was happening and face the public, or deny that they knew and remove the head of every department involved.
If they stick to the story that they didn't know, it indicates that those involved in this (the departments that colluded) are willing and able to act against any legitimate government party, in which case their limits of power have been exceeded.

I agree that jackie smith has to go! Also we should get rid of hazel blears, I hate that woman!! When shes talking she never gives an answer and just seems to be lieing to me.

Actually while where at it we might as well sack the rest of them too.

Didn't we have a Civil War to establish that Members of Parliament couldn't be treated like this? MPs have a duty to raise issues and difficult questions and to demand answers without fear of being dragged off and questioned by the oppressive lackeys of the state apparatus!

If MP's have lost the right to question how our democracy works then democracy is dead and buried for all intents in the UK.

There is no way the people can remove a government, the police and military are lackeys of the state. There is no effective way of protest, as protest will lead to arrest of the leaders and those involved in organising protests. The media will lead the fight against any protest humiliating and spreading lies about anyone who protests, lies dreamed up by MI5 and the like, they've been shown to do it before, they'd do it, probably already are doing it, again!

I am not a nationalist, I'm not an "ist" of any shade, I'm an extreme moderate, I want to pay my taxes, be left alone, be free to think for myself, and do the best I can for my family. Sadly that sort of thinking isn't allowed now, it marks me out as a dangerous radical, intellectual, and a possible threat to the state. Reading this makes you an accomplice, seven people respond and we're engaged in a conspiracy. If the US government decide this posting breaks any rules I can be extradited to the USA to face unspecified penalties in a court there, I could be renditioned tp be tortured, or worse case be murdered, sorry I mean commit suicide, with the aid of men in dark suits.

How do we rid ourselves of an oppressive state when the majority of the population are ignoring the problem? The worse the crimes of the state, the less involved people seem to become!

Answers on a postcard please.

Originally posted by Niall197

That being said, I'm sure Labour politicians have used leaks while in opposition so they're hardly paragons of virtue either.

Absolutely Niall197. Check today's independent.co.uk/todayinpolitics
article by Andrew Grice:-



Hey - just as an aside - let's not forget Labour is a bankrupt party. While we fear the bailiffs' knock, their due date for repayment of those nefarious party loans was reached and beached a couple of months ago. What do they get? Deferment to 2015.
They couldn't run a bath

In 1642 King Charles I mustered some soldiers, marched into the House of Commons and attempted to arrest five troublesome MPs.

It didn't have the outcome he was after. Civil war ensued, the King was soon head-less and the supremacy of Parliament over the monarchy was cemented

The Police were also used to arrest 13 BNP members in Liverpool who were handing out a perfectly legal brochure about a week ago, and there allegations of abuse by the officers involved, including refusing a 70 year old his medication.

They also used anti-terror polics to smash through their homes, confiscating God knows what.

The 13 BNP members have now been told that there are no charges to face since no crime was committed, and the Police have even assigned a special liason officer for the BNP in Liverpool.

This too must have been given the green light by someone high up in government - it looks as though there is a clear policy of using the Police as political enforcers - I think they used to call them the Brown Shirts about 70 years ago.

Revolution is wonderful thing isn't it While the struggle exists there must be such a heightened sense of reality. Heroic deeds are there for the doing; heroes & villains are made, and life must be so full of grandiose consequence. Problem is - when the struggle's over - the politicians reappear.

thing is tho, this has already been swept under the rug by the media and murdock owned companies, and the bbc have obviously had pressure put on them. this morning thet were still reporting the story on the news but were no longer saying anything about counter terrorist officers, and now the news isn't covering it at all, and is cover only the mumbai attacks, clearly in an attempt to keep this case out of the public eye