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the reason I fear the God of the bible: science

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posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni

But if these people DON"T BELIEVE IN GOD, and go to hell, didn't they get there by their own way?
not if god made it that they could accept his and jesus message by blinding and deafening them

they still didnt get the choice it was forced upon them by god and jesus

according to the bible you cant believe in god unsless he wants you to, so there fore not everyone gets the choice if he decides to stop you as he clearly says he did


Remember now, there is no GOD,
i agree 100% with your statement (lets pull another bombeni trick and see how many names i get called while not noticing this is one of thier tricks)

so if they are in hell, WHO sent them? I'm going to give you some extra time on this one. And I was serious, feel free to use that as your signature line if you like. I don't own it. no one as thier isnt a hell either but you insist on running around telling people they are condemned to go there by a loving god

i dont have to believe the sillyness to point out its silly to believe

[edit on 18/12/08 by noobfun]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
Doing a little fence circling eh? I have no idea what you just tried to say. If I understand you at all, you say I deny there are atheists? No I don't, not at all. I am just suggesting that true atheists don't feel compelled to discuss/debate a thing they believe does not even exist. Now, where are those links to debates where you guys are arguing whether Santa exists? I'll wait.



I never implied that you deny there are atheists...
You say 'true atheists' don't feel compelled to discuss what they believe?
That's ridiculous.
What is a 'true atheist' and what's your experience in the matter?
Atheist simply means you do not believe in a god. Nothing more - nothing less.
I'm an atheist who likes to discuss my beliefs just as you are a Christian who likes to discuss your beliefs.
The motive is irrelevant (even though I gave you several reasons why I do it).

Just because you discuss something doesn't mean you actually believe the opposite.
Where is your evidence to support that wild claim?

Of course you're going off on tangents, because you can't face the arguments themselves so you challenge our motives and morals.
Not the first time I've seen it.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni


so as you have started atheists are ugly offer nothing and are all misguided and lying when your own argumenst applied

you really think we are all sexy have more to offer then anyone else are spot on accurate and are the most truthful people ever

so why are you afraid to admit it?


You really think you played that one like a violin, but it came out more like a flute you'd find in a box of crackerjack.



That was his point...
How utterly ridiculous your 'argument' was...

Priceless.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by noobfun

Originally posted by Bombeni

But if these people DON"T BELIEVE IN GOD, and go to hell, didn't they get there by their own way?
not if god made it that they could accept his and jesus message by blinding and deafening them

they still didnt get the choice it was forced upon them by god and jesus

according to the bible you cant believe in god unsless he wants you to, so there fore not everyone gets the choice if he decides to stop you as he clearly says he did


Remember now, there is no GOD,
i agree 100% with your statement (lets pull another bombeni trick and see how many names i get called while not noticing this is one of thier tricks)

so if they are in hell, WHO sent them? I'm going to give you some extra time on this one. And I was serious, feel free to use that as your signature line if you like. I don't own it. no one as thier isnt a hell either but you insist on running around telling people they are condemned to go there by a loving god


I believe God wants everyone with Him, if they love and accept Him as God. There are just too many scriptures that invite ALL to everlasting life; certainly though someone in your circumstance who isn't blind or deaf has made his own choice. You can't deny that. But, I digress, He doesn't exist so what does it matter.

Don't even suggest that I do any missionary work, telling people they are condemned. There are missionaries dying this very day for carrying the word of God to people. Also, my message is very light on the condemn factor, I have talked much much more often about God's love and MERCY and you know better than anyone I am keenly aware of His Mercy. Things that people think they are going to have to answer for when they meet face to face, God isn't even going to remember! I know that for a fact. Jesus really did die for our sins, if we believe and if we ask Him to be our Savior. Our sin is removed as far as the East is from the West. His word is true.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
But if these people DON"T BELIEVE IN GOD, and go to hell, didn't they get there by their own way? Remember now, there is no GOD, so if they are in hell, WHO sent them? I'm going to give you some extra time on this one. And I was serious, feel free to use that as your signature line if you like. I don't own it.


Yep, there is no God, so therefore, there is no Hell.
No one sent them because it doesn't exist.

But as far as the myth goes, your wrong - everything would be God's will if he is omnipotent and omniscient.
You can't argue otherwise.
Picture a numberscale from negative infinity to positive infinity. All the numbers that lie within are part of infinity and are not independent.
Likewise, an all powerful and all knowing God would be just that - all powerful and all knowing.
Leaving us no power except that which he gave us, and no outcome except for that which he ordained.
With this, the whole bases of Christianity is flushed down the toilet.

I've had more "extra time" to think about this than you have. There's no solution. Either the Bible's description of God is wrong or God doesn't exist.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by TruthParadox
 


You put everything in a rigid little box, I don't see God that way.

Although I understand God to be all knowing, what would have been the point for Him to create a world, create a bunch of little creatures to run around it for several thousand years, know every move they would make no matter what (which I believe He does) but not be able to intervene at points of history and make improvisions or whatever you might call it? How very boring, and how very pointless. I also take into effect He is Father. My father laid some tough laws down, but they were broken many times. He rarely carried out the punishment that was attached to the infraction. Two weeks grounding because two days. Instead of a screaming rant, sometimes it was a "I love you and I was worried sick about you, ready to call the police" --- you paint God into a box and you can't do that. He won't allow it. He's God for crying out loud.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by Bombeni
Doing a little fence circling eh? I have no idea what you just tried to say. If I understand you at all, you say I deny there are atheists? No I don't, not at all. I am just suggesting that true atheists don't feel compelled to discuss/debate a thing they believe does not even exist. Now, where are those links to debates where you guys are arguing whether Santa exists? I'll wait.



I never implied that you deny there are atheists...
You say 'true atheists' don't feel compelled to discuss what they believe?
That's ridiculous.
What is a 'true atheist' and what's your experience in the matter?
Atheist simply means you do not believe in a god. Nothing more - nothing less.
I'm an atheist who likes to discuss my beliefs just as you are a Christian who likes to discuss your beliefs.
The motive is irrelevant (even though I gave you several reasons why I do it).

Just because you discuss something doesn't mean you actually believe the opposite.
Where is your evidence to support that wild claim?

Of course you're going off on tangents, because you can't face the arguments themselves so you challenge our motives and morals.
Not the first time I've seen it.


You deny God becaue you cannot see Him. We embrace God in many ways for the same reasaon --- that we cannot see Him. He is too powerful for us to behold in our present form. We must be on an a spiritual plane to finally know God, where "the old things have passed away, and all things are made new"

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Bombeni]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni

I believe God wants everyone with Him, if they love and accept Him as God.
but what do you base this on as the only book that says what the abrahamic god clearly says the opposite?


There are just too many scriptures that invite ALL to everlasting life; certainly though someone in your circumstance who isn't blind or deaf has made his own choice. You can't deny that. But, I digress, He doesn't exist so what does it matter.
to many? gods own words jesus own words people are blinded and deafened so they can never really hear the message and enter heaven becasue we made it so they couldnt

how do you know im not one of them? what do you base this belief on?


Don't even suggest that I do any missionary work, telling people they are condemned.
umm what? more failing or choosing to not understand?

shall i go back and find the numerous times where your saying we are going to hell ?

shall i really?



There are missionaries dying this very day for carrying the word of God to people.
as there are many people dying at the hands of those supposedly spreading gods message,



Also, my message is very light on the condemn factor, I have talked much much more often about God's love and MERCY and you know better than anyone I am keenly aware of His Mercy.
so you do want me to go back and find them all then?

the many unsaved comments, even refering to your self as saved is a form of your not saved comment

no i know keenly you believe you are aware of his mercy, i cant be keenly aware of somthing that theres no evidence of or that which i dont believe



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
Although I understand God to be all knowing, what would have been the point for Him to create a world, create a bunch of little creatures to run around it for several thousand years, know every move they would make no matter what (which I believe He does) but not be able to intervene at points of history and make improvisions or whatever you might call it?
so why doesnt he? why does he let so many people suffer when as a powerful comasionat merciful bieng he would immediatley intercede

when adam and eve ate the apple he would have immediatley forgiven them and removed thier sin as a loving merciful bieng


I also take into effect He is Father. My father laid some tough laws down, but they were broken many times. He rarely carried out the punishment that was attached to the infraction. Two weeks grounding because two days. Instead of a screaming rant, sometimes it was a "I love you and I was worried sick about you, ready to call the police" --- you paint God into a box and you can't do that. He won't allow it. He's God for crying out loud.
well until he provces he exists we have only the bibles word

and unlike your father he carries his punishments through with vengful glee

not only that he punishes everyone not the ones at fault

he drowned the world rather then change it as was his power

he killed the cattle of egypt rather then punish the pharoah at fault

he killed the children of egypt rather then punish the pharoah at fault

he sent famine and disease rather then punish the one at fault

he ordered moses and co to stone an old man to death for collecting fire wood

he ordered them to stone to death disobediant children, and women who were raped and didnt scream loud enough and animals that were abused by people

he ordered moses and co to slaughter many rather then show how divinley merciful and just he is by showing them he was the true way and they should join up to his gang

if your father had followed gods rules youd have been killed a long time ago

relligeon puts him in the box we just peer over the edge and poke it with a stick


We embrace God in many ways for the same reasaon --- that we cannot see Him
but if you read the bible this is clearly not the case he often showed himself in form and miracle he spoke allowed for all to hear

he carried out his misdeeds and made sure everyone knew it was him

so you believe in him becasue he cant be seen or dealt with when clearly he can and was for 4000 years if his book is to be believed

[edit on 18/12/08 by noobfun]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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If God is real or not has always been a human twist.

Do you believe in God or do you believe in Man. There is really no other options on the table if you think about it. Its either us or it's our God/s.

God gave humans faith and humans gave themselves science.

Hem!! It's not so hard to understand why we have such problems with believing in God. When all we have to go on is faith. Science gives us a lot more then just faith, science delivers over time.

We dont see what God dose over time,because we dont understand it. The way we understand science dont comply with Gods work. Its like if we cant explain Gods work with our science have can he have done it. Thats have we explain things.
But could we be jumping the gun a bit to fast when it comes to this question. Are we really that smart yet! that we can exclude God from creation or from the whole picture.

Science don convince me that God dosent exist. Not by a long run.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni

You deny God becaue you cannot see Him. We embrace God in many ways for the same reasaon --- that we cannot see Him. He is too powerful for us to behold in our present form. We must be on an a spiritual plane to finally know God, where "the old things have passed away, and all things are made new"


becuase we cannot see him hear him touch him, and guess what acording to the bible that was never the case suddenly 2000 years ago he stopped

becasue he says he is never changing but continues to change, becasue he says he is merciful then acts like a tyrant because his book as guided by him is loaded with falsehoods and contradictions

becasue he is all powerful but powerless to act

becasue he is all knowing but doesnt seem to know what the hells going on (several times in the bible he cant find people and doesnt know thier names)

he says he the ultimate good and becasue if this so are his laws but then breaks them time and time again and those laws of ultimate good are down right inhumane unjust and malicious

its a mess of lies and contradictions that never answer anything, it stops everything making sense

remove god and suddenly the world does make sense, Delere Auctorem Rerum Ut Universum Noscas Infinitum



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
God gave humans faith and humans gave themselves science.


can you prove he did?


Hem!! It's not so hard to understand why we have such problems with believing in God. When all we have to go on is faith. Science gives us a lot more then just faith, science delivers over time.
while god suddenly stopped delivering .....

i dont need science to tell me there is no god, science doesn care to comment it just goes about doing its thing explaining how and why natural things happen


But could we be jumping the gun a bit to fast when it comes to this question. Are we really that smart yet! that we can exclude God from creation or from the whole picture.
well as we can show a natural system doing a natural systems job and creating everything around us without god while not disproving him it doesnt in anyway help the case

remember science doesnt deal with the supernatural so it doesnt say there isnt a god its just not interested enough in things that cant be proven to bother

which is why we read the bible front to back and think about what it actualy says not read a bit here and there and ignore or gloss over the uncomfortable bits

why we question the word of god and look at how they conflict with his actions and come to the conclusion either he doesnt exist or he is a lying malicious douche that doesnt deserve respect, but as he cant be bothered to do what he supposedly has always done then chances are he never did those in the first place


Science don convince me that God dosent exist. Not by a long run.
well as it doesnt even try, so id hope not

[edit on 18/12/08 by noobfun]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by noobfun
 


Have can i prove that faith and common sense is given to us by God. I cant prove that anymore then you can prove that he didn't.

I guess that's what faith is all about.

I didn't say that god stopped delivering. I say that we dont understand what god is doing. Because we cant explain it with our known knowledge.

I am not saying that scientist are using science to dis prove God. But others do. A lot of people do.

And as you say it your self. Science is natural.
But is God natural ?
Is it natural what god has done?
Why dose the creation have to have happened naturaly. Because our natural laws tell us so. What if the laws of nature came at the same time as creation.


And have can we dismiss God if he is not natural. When we only know and can explain natural things.







[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
Do you believe in God or do you believe in Man. There is really no other options on the table if you think about it. Its either us or it's our God/s.


Christians are the ones who put all their faith in man.
I don't have enough faith in man to trust a book (written by man) which is thousands of years old and has numerous contradictions.
I don't have enough faith in man to base my whole belief system on an emotion or a personal experience which we know can be extremely fallible.
I don't have enough faith in man to eat up every word a preacher says and then give him 10% of my money on top of that.
I put my faith in what I do have and know - and if that alone sends me to Hell, then God would also have to judge himself for not being fair or just - as he is said to be in the Bible.
Just think about it - would you kill someone for not holding a belief in which there is not enough evidence?
Your God does much worse than that.
You're blinded by this fact because faith is circular and logic has no place in it. You won't think about it or come to a logical decision because your mind won't let you. You are a slave.

John 8:32 "the truth shall set you free."



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by spy66

Have can i prove that faith and common sense is given to us by God. I cant prove that anymore then you can prove that he didn't.
exactly

you also cant prove or disprove unicorns and hoyles teapot and the toothfairy and the monster under your bed and the PURPLE cookie monster of doom ... do you believe in all these too?

if not why not?


I guess that's what faith is all about

I didn't say that god stopped delivering. I say that we dont understand what god is doing. Because we cant explain it with our known knowledge.


well he has clearly stopped doing what he did in the bible so he has stopped delivering the proof he exists that he spent 4000 years doing, so why did he stop?

did he really do it in the first place?

was it really the miracle fairy, the cousin of the tooth fairy?


I am not saying that scientist are using science to dis prove God. But others do. A lot of people do.
no we use science that expalins natural systems to show how it was believed god did it with his very own hand but now we know its a natural cause

like rainbows


And as you say it your self. Science is natural.
But is God natural ?
Is it natural what god has done?

If not have could we use science to explain it?
god is supernatural so science cant and wont even try to explain thats why we have to use our heads and think about it

but as science is explaining the natural world around us there doesnt seem to be a need for a god to be meddeling around to make it work, it doesnt say there isnt a god but things can work fine without one

if nature doesnt really need a god to do its thing, and all the information we have about god(the bible) seems to be a pile of contradictions and plagerism from other cultures we use our thinking and understanding to dsicern that there really is no need for a god to exist and the fact the things he supposedly did have no evidence and the things he is said to have said have no evidence or are just plain wrong then chances are its not actually real

we dont use science to prove him wrong we use science to show that one isnt neccesarily required, we then use the religeon its self to show its own flaws and contradictions



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 05:23 PM
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I do believe in God. I also like the other stories. But they dont have anything to do with God. They play another role in all this.

You say that God has stopped his actions.
Well you are right to a point.
God has already set the stage for us to play out our future. We will do it just like he has planed.That's the thing even Christians have a hard time to grasp. Because we humans have made a real mess of things from our past.
But we shouldn't lose faith just because we screwed up our religion.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
I do believe in God. I also like the other stories. But they dont have anything to do with God. They play another role in all this.
but why not allah or buddah or chrishna or the forest spirits or ancetor spirits or zeus?

they all have exactly the same amount of evidence so why discount them but not god? why not worship one of those instead? or all of them just be sure?


You say that God has stopped his actions.
Well you are right to a point.
yes right to the only point he has stopped doing what he said he would always do in the bible

there cant be any other point becasue there isnt one unless you make it up



But we shouldn't lose faith just because we screwed up our religion.
but the fact its so screwed up how do you know it wasnt a screw up from the begining? how do you know it wasnt wrong to start with?

this is why faith doesnt work, your using a guess to pin your name to the list and then discreiting other guesses that are just as valid just as strong becasue you picked one based on nothing but it was the one that was there in your childhood or the area you lived in

this is why we think its a little odd, the true word of any god relies so much on who your parents are and where you were born

its not so much the one true word if location and parents are the deffining factor for many people, dont you think?



[edit on 18/12/08 by noobfun]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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Lets see them debunk this one


Who created God. Lets try and explain with some common sense and logic


The question really dosent make sense. Have can God be created. He wouldent be God if he was created by something or someone else . Because then his creator would be God over him.
So God must have always existed.

Now you wonder have could God always exist. And where did he come from. Well if he always existed he didn't come from anywhere. He was always there.
Now have is that possible.

A question comes to mind:

Either everything came from nothing. "Which is impossible". Common sense.
Or something must have always existed to create everything that is created.
You have no other choice so what is it!

Did everything come from nothing. (That's impossible)

Or

Something always existed and created all that is created.

We always like to use logic to explain everything. So which one of these is logic to you!!

My common sense and logic tels me that.
Have can something create something or everything out of nothing! Have is that logic or natural or even possible !

So i like to believe that something had to be able to create everything. ( that's logic)

So if your on the side of logic you would understand that something had to to be able to create everything. And surly what ever created everything surly always existed. Again thats common sense.

So something has always existed. Would that be our god ?

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


The question really dosent make sense. Have can God be created. He wouldent be God if he was created by something or someone else . Because then his creator would be God over him.
So God must have always existed.


Or more likely, neither existed so neither would need a creator. Makes more sense that way, it's also the answer that requires the fewest assumptions.


Either everything came from nothing. "Which is impossible". Common sense.


Still 'everything' could have existed for ever as well, you don't really need a God for that. However, interestingly quantum physics shows us that particles can appear in a vacuum - nothing, so it's silly to say nothing cant produce something.


So something has always existed. Would that be our god ?


Or it could be a singularity pre-dating the big bang effectively existing "outside" of time being as how time was one dimension produced in the big bang.

you know, just either or.

[edit on 18/12/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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Lets go on and educate you a bit further.

Lets figure out what always existed. Because you would surly comment on that.

You would probably say that if something always existed then maybe the universe, time Mather and space always existed. And you would take God out of the picture.

But here is the problem with that.

To claim that something is "Eternal" Always existed or will always exist. Is to apply the property of infinity to the universe. So lets try to apply infinity or Eternity to Matter,Time and Space. And if i can tell you that Matter,Time ans Space could not be Eternal or infinite. That would mean that they are created by something that is not made out of Matter,Time and Space. Which would mean that they would have the property of God. Being immaterial,Eternal,Omnipresent.

I need a break.

Ok lest take Time.
Time is the measure of changes in Matter.

If we bring Infinity into "time" when did it start! You couldent tell could you, becuase it would be infinite in the past as well. The past would never have a beginning. Have and when would time start?
You cant have an infinite amout of finite things. Because thats not logical or natural. Thats common sense.

So we know that time had a beginning,because we know that time couldn't have had a infinite time before right now. Because there couldent have been a infinite amount of changes before right now. We know that there has been a serten amount of Time (Time is the messure of changes in matter) until now. We dont know the exact time but we are saying that creation started some 4 billion years ago.








[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]




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