the reason I fear the God of the bible: science

Originally posted by Bombeni
Bust as I said before, if I was an atheist, and had no moral guidelines hanging around anyway, I'd HOPE to be discriminated against at work.

Woah! Hold on there Sparky!
No moral guidelines?
Our belief doesn't rest in the idea of doing something wrong and then saying "God forgive me" and it being wiped clean. We have to live with our mistakes.
Our belief doesn't rest in the idea of being saved through faith - belief without evidence. We do good deeds to feel better about our world.
Our belief doesn't warrent it acceptable to eternaly torture anyone for any action, because we know that that would be unjust.
Our belief doesn't warrent it 'ok' to be dishonest with ourselves and ignore arguments against our beliefs. We look at the facts and don't lie and make excuses.
Our belief doesn't warrent it acceptable to point fingers at other people and tell them they are going to suffer for eternity simply for not believing what we believe.

Your definition of what morals are is completely skewed. Wake up and smell the beans...

Originally posted by Bombeni
Exceptions to this of course would be churches, who would not hire an atheist, but what atheist would want to work there, so no problem there.

Wrong.
You just implied that atheists have no morals, which is a gross fiction that Christians like to believe. Many people look down at atheists for this supposed 'evil'. You're extremely delusional if you believe that many Christians don't look down on that, as if they were on a high horse.

Originally posted by Bombeni
You and I both know that in everyday life, nobody cares one iota how you believe.

Unless it goes against their belief. That's when they get defensive. And many people believe the best defense is offense. We're all guilty of this, not just Christians, but Christians are the best at ignoring it.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Do you have a few years to read all the links I could find you about people who have been murdered and thrown in prison for believing in Christ?

That's true, there's no question about that, and no one is denying it. But in todays society, the minority always gets the short end of the stick. Atheists are the minority in America. And because of this, we're looked at as something we're not, because people can't understand what's beyond their perspective.

I don't want this to turn into "who get persecuted more". I really don't care about that. I just want you to stop ignoring the truth that everyone is judged by what they believe, and because of this, atheists rarely show their faces as such.
Consider that many educated people are atheists, yet to hold any major office in the good ol' US of A, you must be a Christian.
It's an unofficial rule.
You must know that many people say they are Christian when they are not.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Obama was an atheist deep down.

Originally posted by noobfun

Originally posted by Bombeni

I made a mistake, I know I said thousands but there are millions. If you want to read about Christian martyrs just google a combination of any of these words: Christian plus martyr/persecution/murder/prison etc.

Here's only ONE link with dozens of accounts:

and not a single one casued by athiesm not a single one casued by not believing in a god

next set?

Oh, what a world. How old are you noob? Let's act like adults please. Let's be reasonable, can you agree to that?

Why oh why does it matter WHO persecuted the millions of Christians??

I was responding to YOUR complaint that atheists, few and far between of course, are sometimes persecuted. I tried in vain to point out to you that when a person enters into a set of beliefs/values, they can usually expect some opposition. But stop 10 people on the street and ask them what they think about the history of persecution of atheists. Get a blank stare.

I didn't know you wanted specific links of atheists who murdered Christians but I can promise you they are out there. You get off in left field noob; the desperation you show in trying to prove there is no God is not angering, it is sad.

All those earlier things you quoted from the Bible about God's wrath? If He doesn't exist, why would you bother?

You are angry now that He DOESN'T exist.

On judgement day, I guess you'll be angry that He DOES.

Originally posted by Bombeni

WHY on earth would the people involved in the birth, life and death of Christ read that Psalm of David and decide "hmm, I think David wrote this as a future scenario in which the Messiah would be born, let's all get together and work this out for the next hundred years."

they knew the prophecies its common jewish knowledge

hmmm if they beleive the messiah ahs come and want to convert the jews wouldnt the best way be to make it look as if he had come and fulfilled them?

and they still missed a bunch out

In the first place, people of that time didn't even realize that Psalm was or at least would in the future, match up with the birth and death of Jesus/Messiah.

your so wrong it hurts

In the second place, do you think these people willingly trumped up a phony scenario they would have to stick with for the rest of their lives just to face condemnation, humiliation, death, and persecution with every step? What was in it for them?

yes yes i do

what was in it for them.. lots

followers power cash

The Sanhedrin was adamantly against them, the common people DID think they were phonies,

unfortunatley not enough of them

again, what was in it for the people who as you say managed to enact this Psalm/Prophecy which took an entire generation?

nothing to do with an entire generation just a little creative writting matthew + luke all copy chunks of mark

paul/saul doesnt seem to know anything about jesus apart from the crucifiction reserection myth

what was in it for them? followers power cash vindication thier religeous beliefs were right

I know you know better than that.

we wish you did

Originally posted by Simplynoone
The only reason why they appear to be self fulfilled prophecy is for the purposes of deception

Bombeni said it was an infallible prophecy. It's hardly infallible if the outcome isn't even proven - and even if it were, there are more plausible explanations, as I've said.
Have you ever considered that it appears to be self fulfilled because... it is?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
,..the bible says he is not coming yet ...that someone else is going to come and do miracles etc and try to make everyone think he is Christ and will FOOL THE MASSES and make them think the tribulation is over and this is Christs second coming ..

I'll make you a deal.
If anyone performs miracles, I will take a 3rd look at the whole faith (I've already given it a 2nd look).
Until then, I'll be waiting.
And waiting...
etc...

Maybe the miracle will be that he'll choose not to perform miracles despite what peope think . (there's always a back door)

reply to post by TruthParadox


Truthparadox, it's been a lloonggg day, I could have left that comment about the moral guidelines out, I agree.

It's just that the whole atheist thing, if you want it to stick to the wall, you have to get organized and change the perception, not be a bunch of scaredy cats like noobfun says.

Anytime I hear the word atheist, I see that old battle-ax's face, and remember the words of her own flesh and blood son, after her death:

"My mother was an evil person... Not for removing prayer from America's schools... No, she was just evil. She stole huge amounts of money. She misused the trust of people. She cheated children out of their parents' inheritance. She cheated on her taxes and even stole from her own organizations. She once printed up phony stock certificates on her own printing press to try to take over another atheist publishing company."

Originally posted by Bombeni

Oh, what a world. How old are you noob? Let's act like adults please. Let's be reasonable, can you agree to that?

shall we not lie and misinterpret too?

shall we actually answer the issue or just try and skate around them?

shall we not just make wild claim or bring actual evidence of our claims?

Why oh why does it matter WHO persecuted the millions of Christians??

why does it matter who persecutes muslims? or buddists? or athiests?

the very fact we are talking about christian/athiest persecution it kind of makes it important

I was responding to YOUR complaint that atheists, few and far between of course, are sometimes persecuted.

by christains for not believing as well as by other religeous groups

few and far between but were growing fast, athiest agnostic make up 16.1% of the US population in 2008 were waiting to see how much its gone up this year

I tried in vain to point out to you that when a person enters into a set of beliefs/values,

but they are bieng persecuted for not entering a set of beliefs/values by those that hold them

and by that statement your justifying it.... but then why send links of christians bieng persecuted, well they knew the risks its thier own fault too then ... isnt it? they were obviously asking for it

great argument full props for your great display of caring for humanity

they can usually expect some opposition. But stop 10 people on the street and ask them what they think about the history of persecution of atheists. Get a blank stare.

oooo going for an argument of the bandwagon ehh maybe they give blank stares becasue they dont know anything about it, or choose to ignore it

I didn't know you wanted specific links of atheists who murdered Christians but I can promise you they are out there.

blantant lie? or just not actually reading whats written again?

If you were willing, I could post a new link here everyday for you to read, for probably 3 years.

im a fast reader gimme your best and ill get back to you tommorrow

remeber its atheism V christainity not just any old twaddle were talking here

i dont mind send em all and remember its christians killed in the name of atheism

no personality cult nonsense, and i will be cross checking them for accuracy

twice it was said in very deffinate terms

You get off in left field noob; the desperation you show in trying to prove there is no God is not angering, it is sad.

please save your feeble attempts at mocking for someone you actually managed to raise a valid point with

so far everything youve said and done backed up by selective bible scripture youve presented has been refuted and shown to be flawed misrepresented or just make believe

All those earlier things you quoted from the Bible about God's wrath? If He doesn't exist, why would you bother?

becasue lying for jesus is still lying, and if your not going to be honest about your own book il do it for you

You are angry now that He DOESN'T exist.

no im angered by such blatant and willing displays of ignorance and denial to fit a failed beleif structure so people can live in a little bubble and pretend the worlds just fine instead of actually trying to address the worlds problems and maybe make it a bit better for people to live in

On judgement day, I guess you'll be angry that He DOES.

well he doesnt so i wouldnt go holding my breath, and if he did he wont like me much, got a whole pile of questions and ill be happy to judge him as he judges me

and if he is a loving a just god then he would have to do the just thing and justify his own attrocaties and actions

anger and passion are very different entities
in the same way passion and faith are

if you cant tell the differance www.merriam-webster.com...



[edit on 12/12/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by Bombeni
Truthparadox, try again. WHY on earth would the people involved in the birth, life and death of Christ read that Psalm of David and decide "hmm, I think David wrote this as a future scenario in which the Messiah would be born, let's all get together and work this out for the next hundred years."

Next hundred years? lol.. You're taking it too far.
There's no proof that Jesus even existed. There's just as much reason to believe that it was a fable which passed by word of mouth, in fact, that would explain all the variations as well as the other gospels which are not in the Bible. Stories get added on, changed, etc.
The Jews knew of prophecies of the messiah, and those trying to convince others that the fable was accurate or just trying to make it fit in the mythology, could easily have added bits here and there. It's what we see in other fables - Hercules and King Arthur come to mind.

The key thing to remember is that it's not even close to "infallible". To even be a fulfilled prochecy, there would have to be proof of the outcome.

Originally posted by Bombeni
In the first place, people of that time didn't even realize that Psalm was or at least would in the future, match up with the birth and death of Jesus/Messiah.

What do you mean they didn't know?
It was part of their belief that a messiah would come. With that belief came several specific prophecies. Every Jew knew the story of the messiah who was to come.

Originally posted by Bombeni
In the second place, do you think these people willingly trumped up a phony scenario they would have to stick with for the rest of their lives just to face condemnation, humiliation, death, and persecution with every step?

What are you talking about? It's a fable propagated by the ignorant masses. Either a fable about a real person, or a fable about the messiah in general.
Also, look up "Caesar's Messiah" on Google. That's also a likely explanation - the Romans inventing a story about their conquered foes to keep them in line.

Originally posted by Bombeni
I know you know better than that.

I know that you don't know enough to make a judgement on what I know. You need to brush up on History and fabels...

Originally posted by Bombeni
Truthparadox, it's been a lloonggg day, I could have left that comment about the moral guidelines out, I agree.

It's cool. It's a common mistake.

Originally posted by Bombeni
It's just that the whole atheist thing, if you want it to stick to the wall, you have to get organized and change the perception, not be a bunch of scaredy cats like noobfun says.

For the most part, atheists have no reason to get organized as Christians do. Christians believe that we will burn in Hell for not believing in Christ, so they have a reason to be organized. Many atheists like to encourage logic and reason, but it's not the scale of Christianity - we aren't fighting for your soul . Most atheists just want to live their lives and not be looked down at with that commonly held belief that atheists have no morals/are scum. I don't believe that's too much to ask for.
I'm not saying that most Christians look at us as scum, but you can't deny that in the back of the mind there's a judgmental process when looking at someone whom you think doesn't care to have morals.

reply to post by TruthParadox


A hundred years, yes, for someone to have preplanned to have their child, Mary, when she reached puberty, to play the part of the mom. They had to find a Jewish man willing to take a wife that people suspected was no longer of good virtue, not an easy task in Jeruselum 2000 years ago. Had to talk Jesus into being willing to fake being the Son of God, then even when He was flogged to within an inch of His life, and nailed to a cross, mocked, spat on, speared in the side, He managed to keep the scam going. Then, you had to have these fishermen and tax collector and scholar etc., to leave their villages and families in order to help with this scam, to help this dude Jesus try to trick people into believing He is the Son of God, and they had to be prepared and willing to be imprisoned, murdered, abandoned, and then they had to write it all down. And for WHAT I ask you?

Oh man, I didn't even realize how absurd your suggestion was until I read thru it here. Makes my head spin, and I gotta shut it down for the day after that one.

Unfreakinbelieveable.

reply to post by TruthParadox


I want to add one more thing.

Most Christians, as you mention, do not look down on people. I don't know where you get this. Most Christians follow as best they can, the commandments that God gave us, which is to love your neighbor as yourself. Christians are the backbone of volunteers all over the world, I am not saying atheists don't volunteer or do good things, I am saying Christians are the backbone of it. Without Christians, the suffering worldwide would escalate to unimaginable proportion. There is still a lot of suffering but Christians make a good dent in it. What is the deal. Did you know a really bad person who happened to claim they were Christian? If so you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. There are many more good Christians than bad ones.

Originally posted by Bombeni
A hundred years, yes, for someone to have preplanned to have their child, Mary, when she reached puberty, to play the part of the mom. They had to find a Jewish man willing to take a wife that people suspected was no longer of good virtue, not an easy task in Jeruselum 2000 years ago. Had to talk Jesus into being willing to fake being the Son of God, then even when He was flogged to within an inch of His life, and nailed to a cross, mocked, spat on, speared in the side, He managed to keep the scam going. Then, you had to have these fishermen and tax collector and scholar etc., to leave their villages and families in order to help with this scam, to help this dude Jesus try to trick people into believing He is the Son of God, and they had to be prepared and willing to be imprisoned, murdered, abandoned, and then they had to write it all down. And for WHAT I ask you?

Wow. You did not read my response did you?
At least read what I type .
I said they are fables. Did it take hundred of years to plan the fable of Hercules and to find the people to play the parts? Read my post again. That's not how fables, word of mouth, ignorant masses - works.
Like many Christians do with evolution, you make the mistake of thinking it must have been in one leap. The truth is, many things work in small steps. Parts of the fable is changed, rewritten, spread to others who change and add to that. That's why we have many gospels which aren't even a part of the Bible. You would gladly admit that they are fables, yet are so blind to the contradicting accounts of even the gospels which are in the Bible.
It's easier to say that all accounts are fables then to say that 1 of them is a fact and the others are fakes...

Originally posted by Bombeni
Oh man, I didn't even realize how absurd your suggestion was until I read thru it here. Makes my head spin, and I gotta shut it down for the day after that one.

Unfreakinbelieveable.

How is it absurd? Do you also then say that Hercules and King Arthur must have existed with supernatural powers? At the most, they were real men who had fables written of them. At the least, they were fables invented out of thin air.

Next time, read what I'm actually saying.

Edit to add: Oh by the way, your 'strawman' is showing. Damn! Cover that thing up! It's embarrasing .

[edit on 12-12-2008 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by Bombeni
Most Christians, as you mention, do not look down on people.

But you yourself did, good sir, by suggesting we have no morals.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Christians are the backbone of volunteers all over the world, I am not saying atheists don't volunteer or do good things, I am saying Christians are the backbone of it.

As far as America goes, Christians are the backbone of most everything, as they are the vast majority. I don't want to get into a discussion of who does more or less of what, because it proves nothing and is rather immature. I'm simply saying that I've met many Christians which do look down at atheists.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Did you know a really bad person who happened to claim they were Christian? If so you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. There are many more good Christians than bad ones.

I'm not interested in good Christians or bad Christians. I've met many people (including my parents) who will see a really nice person on TV or in person and conclude that he/she must be a Christian. Then, upon finding out that they are wrong, suddenly it's as if the good which they once saw disappears. It's as if good can only exist if you're a Christian. Again, I'm not saying all Christians believe this or would even admit it, I'm just saying it's a fact of being an atheist in a Christian country.

Edit to Add:
Again, think about all the elected officials who say they are Christians. They know that saying they are atheist would completely ruin their career because they wouldn't get the votes. Can you imagine a President who was an atheist? They all have to play this game - pretending that they believe in sky fairies- just to get your vote.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by Bombeni
A hundred years, yes, for someone to have preplanned to have their child, Mary, when she reached puberty, to play the part of the mom. They had to find a Jewish man willing to take a wife that people suspected was no longer of good virtue, not an easy task in Jeruselum 2000 years ago. Had to talk Jesus into being willing to fake being the Son of God, then even when He was flogged to within an inch of His life, and nailed to a cross, mocked, spat on, speared in the side, He managed to keep the scam going. Then, you had to have these fishermen and tax collector and scholar etc., to leave their villages and families in order to help with this scam, to help this dude Jesus try to trick people into believing He is the Son of God, and they had to be prepared and willing to be imprisoned, murdered, abandoned, and then they had to write it all down. And for WHAT I ask you?

Wow. You did not read my response did you?
At least read what I type

.
I said they are fables. Did it take hundred of years to plan the fable of Hercules and to find the people to play the parts? Read my post again. That's not how fables, word of mouth, ignorant masses - works.
Like many Christians do with evolution, you make the mistake of thinking it must have been in one leap. The truth is, many things work in small steps. Parts of the fable is changed, rewritten, spread to others who change and add to that. That's why we have many gospels which aren't even a part of the Bible. You would gladly admit that they are fables, yet are so blind to the contradicting accounts of even the gospels which are in the Bible.
It's easier to say that all accounts are fables then to say that 1 of them is a fact and the others are fakes...

Originally posted by Bombeni
Oh man, I didn't even realize how absurd your suggestion was until I read thru it here. Makes my head spin, and I gotta shut it down for the day after that one.

Unfreakinbelieveable.

How is it absurd? Do you also then say that Hercules and King Arthur must have existed with supernatural powers? At the most, they were real men who had fables written of them. At the least, they were fables invented out of thin air.

Next time, read what I'm actually saying.

Edit to add: Oh by the way, your 'strawman' is showing. Damn! Cover that thing up! It's embarrasing

.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by TruthParadox]

Well I get it now, why atheists say there is no God; they are unable to debunk the Bible, the thousands of people who are recorded in the Bible, from Adam down to Jesus and everyone in between, the hundreds of prophecies fulfilled, so let's just say they didn't exist. LOL. Wowee. A few scam artists got together and said "let's write a book that will control people (as the posters here have suggested)" --- but again, I ask what is in it for them? Who do you suppose these scam artists/novel writers were? Who wrote the OT, and why?? Who wrote the NT? Certainly not Jews; they don't accept the NT. Why would Romans write a novel that creates a King, when they wanted all to worship Caesar? I know you'll have a explanation, I can hardly wait.

You want to talk straw men, my good woman? The worn-out claim comparing one fictional character such as Hercules, to the historical record of millions of people over thousands of years, is so completely unimaginative. I understand it's all you have, but give it a rest.





[edit on 15-12-2008 by Bombeni]

Originally posted by Bombeni

Well I get it now, why atheists say there is no God;

you REALLY REALLY DONT

they are unable to debunk the Bible,

no your unable to prove its anything other then a badly written book, the burden of proof lays with the bearer of wild claims

You want to talk straw men, my good woman? The worn-out claim comparing one fictional character such as Hercules, to the historical record of millions of people over thousands of years, is so completely unimaginative. I understand it's all you have, but give it a rest.

your so special

for it to be a strawman you would have to be able to porve it accurate
prove those people actually existed
prove they actually did those things

but you cant so saying it is real is more strawman like then paradox's words

beware of fire your strawman could go up at any moment bombeni a wiff of realism or a dose of common sense will act like petrol make sure you keep clear



[edit on 15/12/08 by noobfun]

[edit on 15/12/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by Bombeni
Well I get it now, why atheists say there is no God; they are unable to debunk the Bible, the thousands of people who are recorded in the Bible, from Adam down to Jesus and everyone in between, the hundreds of prophecies fulfilled, so let's just say they didn't exist. LOL. Wowee.

Nope that's not why. However, saying we are unable to 'debunk the Bible' is completely false. It does a good enough job of that itself - just google "biblical contradictions"...

Originally posted by Bombeni
A few scam artists got together and said "let's write a book that will control people (as the posters here have suggested)" --- but again, I ask what is in it for them?

You didn't actually read what I said...
I told you these things don't just happen in one step. It's not like everyone got together and said "let's write a story about a man named Jesus"... It starts with the ignorant masses spreading a story by word of mouth. Then others hear these stories and write it down - you must know that's how fables work...
Just consider the huge gap of time between when Christ supposedly died and the gospels were written.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Who do you suppose these scam artists/novel writers were?

There were most likely no scam artists, but if there were any, they were probably Romans .

Originally posted by Bombeni
Why would Romans write a novel that creates a King, when they wanted all to worship Caesar? I know you'll have a explanation, I can hardly wait.

Well that's just one of the theories out there which sounds very plausible to me. Of course you won't understand it and will keep asking questions which further exploit your lack of understanding because you refuse to read these things - I guess they're just too silly to warrent your time?
If the theory of Caesar's Messiah is true, then the Romans wrote the gospels as a way to quell the Jews by giving them the Messiah they always talked about.
This would make sense in numorous ways. The whole "turn the other cheek" philosophy would cut the amount of 'incidents' down. "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"... hmmm...

www.caesarsmessiah.com...

Just read that. Read it all the way through, and then ask questions if you have any...

Originally posted by Bombeni
You want to talk straw men, my good woman?

Man, actually .

Originally posted by Bombeni
The worn-out claim comparing one fictional character such as Hercules, to the historical record of millions of people over thousands of years, is so completely unimaginative.

Historical record of millions of people over thousands of years...
Wow...
I don't even wish to point out how ridiculous that is...

Originally posted by Bombeni
I understand it's all you have, but give it a rest.

lol... First you have to actually read what I'm saying before I can feed you some more .

reply to post by TruthParadox

You didn't actually read what I said...
I told you these things don't just happen in one step. It's not like everyone got together and said "let's write a story about a man named Jesus"... It starts with the ignorant masses spreading a story by word of mouth. Then others hear these stories and write it down - you must know that's how fables work.. Just consider the huge gap of time between when Christ supposedly died and the gospels were written.

.


That's right it didn't happen in one step, the Bible spans thousands of years, and many many prophets chosen by God to leave His word with us. But you would propose that one guy started it, then others just took the cue and added to it, all of them con artists of course. LOL. It is pretty miraculous how it all played out, flawlessly, and to this day thousands of years after the OT was written and the NT added to it, the Bible speaks to the hearts of modern day man just as it did in days of old. It is fascinating how words and parables from thousands of years ago are as relevant today as the day they were spoken.

These exchanges have been great because they cause me to delve even deeper into the truth. I came across something in research that I never realized, concerning---

John 8:3-6

"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

===================================================

I never realized the significance of Him writing on the ground, but it was very significant. The streets of Old Jerusalem were made of stone. www.fotosearch.com...

Was Jesus writing the Law on stone, as He had written the Law on stone in the days of Moses? The scribes and pharisees didn't realize they were questioning the use of the Law, of the one who had MADE the Law.

And how did He reply? He prompted the one without sin to cast the first stone, then He forgave and blessed the accused. The scribes and pharisees were always trying to trip Him up, but they walked away with egg on their face everytime.

Originally posted by Bombeni
That's right it didn't happen in one step, the Bible spans thousands of years, and many many prophets chosen by God to leave His word with us. But you would propose that one guy started it, then others just took the cue and added to it, all of them con artists of course. LOL.

Nope, that's not what I 'propose'... It's very annoying arguing with you because you aren't even hearing what I'm saying... I said in my last post that it's more than probable that the people spreading the story were not 'con artists'. Remember the children's game "telephone"? It would have worked much like that, as all fables do.
Person 1) "Did you hear about that guy named Jesus? I heard he might have been the Messiah."
Person 2) "I hear there's a man named Jesus who's the Messiah and was performing miracles..."
Person 3) "Jesus the Christ (the Messiah) has been performing miracles. I even hear that he turned water into wine."

Were these people con artists? Of course not - they were just normal people trying to make their news sound more extraordinary by adding little bits and pieces at a time. You know that this happens, but suddenly when it comes to the gospels, they are immune to this treatment? Absurd.
Just read the contradictions and inconsistencies in the gospels to know that it's not a historical account of any kind.

Originally posted by Bombeni
It is pretty miraculous how it all played out, flawlessly, and to this day thousands of years after the OT was written and the NT added to it, the Bible speaks to the hearts of modern day man just as it did in days of old.

I would hardly say 'flawlessly' lol... Unless having hundreds of contradictions was all part of God's plan...

Originally posted by Bombeni
It is fascinating how words and parables from thousands of years ago are as relevant today as the day they were spoken.

Many people say that Shakespeare's writtings are timeless as well, but I'm not about to worship the guy on all fours...

Originally posted by Bombeni
Was Jesus writing the Law on stone, as He had written the Law on stone in the days of Moses? The scribes and pharisees didn't realize they were questioning the use of the Law, of the one who had MADE the Law.

That's a commonly held belief .

Originally posted by Bombeni
The scribes and pharisees were always trying to trip Him up, but they walked away with egg on their face everytime.

So the story says .

Ok......Here's a different angle.

Christians believe God put us here, atheists do not believe in God..so how did we get here ?

Atheist's will tell you through a mixture of chemicals that formed the first cell millions of years ago, then evolution took over.

Prove it ! Prove that we came from a single cell. You can't.

Atheist's say they do not believe in God/Jesus because there is no evidence or proof.
Where is your evidence proving we came from mixture of chemicals millions of years ago.

Dawkins even admitted life may not have originated from chance chemicals and evolution.
He now thinks life may have originated from "intelligent design".

Rather than believeing in ET, I'll stay with Jesus

do you even actually know who the pharisees were bombeni?

Originally posted by noobfun
do you even actually know who the pharisees were bombeni?

The name Pharisee in its Hebrew form means separatists, or the separated ones. They were also known as chasidim, which means loyal to God, or loved of God - extremely ironic in view of the fact that by His time, they made themselves the most bitter, and deadly, opponents of Jesus Christ and His message.

The Pharisees perhaps meant to obey God, but eventually they became so devoted and extremist in very limited parts of The Law (plus all that they themselves added to it), that they became blind to The Messiah when He was in their very midst. They saw His miracles, they heard His Words, but instead of receiving it with joy, they did all that they could to stop Him - eventually to the point of getting Him killed because He truthfully claimed to be the Son of God.

Jesus Christ had strong words about the Pharisees, and what awaits some of them:


"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes [see Lawyers] and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20 RSV).

But I suppose YOU have an altogether different definition.