the reason I fear the God of the bible: science

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Noobb ....how would you educate >?Isnt that what GOD was trying to do by him telling his people to write down all that he had told them to do (live by etc) and make sure that everyone has a chance to read it ...(The Ten Commandments etc and of course The NT).etc ...........................

school must have been really harsh if you think stonning someone is educational

and no it oesnt educate it sets laws and rules not teaches why they should be followed or infact explains anything

it even says a rainbow is god physically hanging his bow out as a reminder and we know that aint true

educating is learning people

giving laws is giving laws

If as you say you wanted to educate people ...and you were a spirit like GOD is ...wouldnt you need to get someone down here to write it for you ?

being all powerful? hell no

thats like having a gun slung across your shoulder to hunt deer and trying to throw rocks at them

Deu 10:3 And I made an ark [of] #tim wood, and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first, and went up into the mount, having the two tables in mine hand.
Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.

do it your self and dont let anyone mess with it is how you do it

of would you just create a book with everything in it man needs to know and magically leave it on the desktop of every computer >? No ..no one would read it in fact I bet they would just delete it and say that did not come from GOD ..etc ...just like they will not even bother to read the bible ......

i would personally hand deliver each and every single copy so there is no misunderstanding and they all know i am god

I mean he did write the Ten Commandments himself (trying to educate them) and look what happened to that ....did they care to learn > NO ....

i know how can you call someone so bad at bieng good God?

for an all knowing being he doesnt do a very good job of knowing how things wrok out

Dont you see Noob ...God has tried everything that man has tried and then some ...and it just has not done one bit of good with people and their FREE WILL to take it or leave it ....

when was the last time he made a big huge miracle for all the world to see and said hi its me god?

2000 years ago alegedly, up until that it was a near weekly event

so why not now?

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink

well us atheists are waiting to be lead to the water and he isnt doing anything

MAN was put in charge of this world (Gods creation)

the universes creation form star dust

he said till the ground ..plant the vinyards and take care of it all ....................this is what YOUR GREAT SCIENTIFIC oh WISE ONES of old did with that GARDEN he was given to take care of ..

no thats not science not even close thats called farming,

How long do you think God should just allow men to keep sinking deeper and deeper into this mess that MAN CREATED with what GOD GAVE HIM to tend to ..........

exactly

why wait so long? why now? why not do what he has always done? could it be he never did it in the first place? or has the unchanging god changed?

because now those oh great wise educated ones have messed things up almost to teh point of no return ..............

you do realisee theres a big differance between goverment buisness and science? you dont seem to be able to tell the differance

would you prefer another dark age? thats what religeon gave us

What would it be like in say ten years after you wise ones get through overmedicating over altering dna over destroying natural resources with your modified plants and animals and people where they are like NON RECOGNIZABLE as NATURAL ... ....etc etc

that has nothign to do with science

science finds stuff out govermanets and buisness and religeon figure out how to mess everything up with what they found out

Originally posted by Bombeni

Thanks for those scriptures. Couldn't find anything at all t hat says we are still supposed to sacrifice animals? I didn't think so.

but look back to the OT god said do it forever

no where since has he said stop doing it

Originally posted by prevenge
wait so drowning every living person on earth in a huge flood ISN'T mass murder / genocide etc..it's YOUR "HIM" right?

The point was, this isn't a general thread about the religion or the Bible. This was a thread focusing on a very specific topic. Their off topic one liner had nothing to do with this very technical discussion. We don't get to see this topic very often around here whereas there are oodles of thread bashing the Bible in a general sense. Go and find one of those instead of derailing this one was the point.

yaaaaay we can accomplish all these AND MORE without a freaking BOOOK written by the Council of Nicea in order to rule the behavior patterns of the population of the Roman Empire!! yaaaaay!

The Nicaean Council didn't write the Bible nor were they responsible for the canonization process.

Dear Noob get out of the STONE AGE (stoning etc in the OT) ..
Modernize NOOB ....NT does not say to stone anyone ..
And no one has any reason to have to sacrifice anymore ..
The sacrifices are of voices of THANKSGIVING as I pointed out .

Come on Noob ...now your acting all OCD on us ...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Dear Noob get out of the STONE AGE (stoning etc in the OT) ..
Modernize NOOB ....NT does not say to stone anyone ..
And no one has any reason to have to sacrifice anymore ..
The sacrifices are of voices of THANKSGIVING as I pointed out .

Come on Noob ...now your acting all OCD on us ...

well if only it were that simple to write off

unfortunatley it isnt, when the NT says to carry on the OT laws how do you justify not doing gods will?

becasue you rather follow the church?

and is none of the OT worth paying attention to now?

or just the bits you want to pay attention to?

Originally posted by noobfun

Originally posted by Bombeni

Thanks for those scriptures. Couldn't find anything at all t hat says we are still supposed to sacrifice animals? I didn't think so.

but look back to the OT god said do it forever

no where since has he said stop doing it

I know you already know all about the tearing of the veil, and what that signified. I'm not going to take up all the space, but I found this awesome, not too long, article which explains the tearing, and how God didn't expect animal sacrifice, after HE made the last, final, ultimate sacrifice. I know a lot of links probably go ignored but this one is worth it:
members.datafast.net.au...

Noob the only OT laws that I go by are the TEN COMMANDMENTS ..
The NT does not say we have to follow any of the levitical laws ..
at least not as far as I am aware of .


Look Noob do tell me just how long has it been since you saw anyone stone anyone to death ?


And no I do not GO TO or FOLLOW any CHURCH ..never really did for very long ..(and I especially do not agree with MOST of what the Catholic Church believes) ...................I would consider myself to be more of a evangelical protestant not a Catholic ....
I have been Churchless for several years now ..for some of the same reasons why you get upset with them ..my teacher is the HOLY SPIRIT within me helping me understand myself,people like you (of the world) and the word of GOD ..................

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Noob the only OT laws that I go by are the TEN COMMANDMENTS ..
The NT does not say we have to follow any of the levitical laws ..
at least not as far as I am aware of .

so you admit to ignoring gods decrease? ignoring the words of jesus?

how very christian

jesus him self says he has not come to cahnge or later the laws of the prophests but to fulfil them, and those laws are leviticus and others

Look Noob do tell me just how long has it been since you saw anyone stone anyone to death ?

personally or read about it?

even thats not the point you should be doing it now god said and so did jesus, or is dont you have to do the things they say if you dont want?

And no I do not GO TO or FOLLOW any CHURCH ..never really did for very long ..(and I especially do not agree with MOST of what the Catholic Church believes) ...................I would consider myself to be more of a evangelical protestant not a Catholic ....
I have been Churchless for several years now ..for some of the same reasons why you get upset with them ..my teacher is the HOLY SPIRIT within me helping me understand myself,people like you (of the world) and the word of GOD ..................

so why dont you follow it if you understand it?

Originally posted by Bombeni
I know you already know all about the tearing of the veil, and what that signified. I'm not going to take up all the space, but I found this awesome, not too long, article which explains the tearing, and how God didn't expect animal sacrifice, after HE made the last, final, ultimate sacrifice. I know a lot of links probably go ignored but this one is worth it:
members.datafast.net.au...

Those who hold certain views, about the significance of events in Jerusalem AD70, and those who hold certain views about the change of covenants, will suggest that animal sacrifices still held good for some people after the crucifixion and up till the end of them in AD70. Others will say that the cessation of animal sacrifices was unfortunate, and that Jesus himself will restore the practice for a thousand years.

so people decided not god or jesus?

so gods law gets over ruled by a vote?

Yet Christ was the final sin offering and his death atoned for sins once and for all

what about all the other sacrifices? even if jesus died so no need for sin offerings what about the rest? god over ruled by a vote?

i love the verses they used to justify it, they have nothing to do with stopping animal sacrifice

unless war and flood = dont kill doves anymore

[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

Noob only the Jews who do not believe JESUS will once again do sacrifices ..And even they may not ...not with live animals anyway .Just because they will do it again does not mean that GOD wants them to ...They are doing it because they REJECTED that ONCE AND FOR ALL LIVING SACRIFICE of JESUS CHRIST ..............(it will bite them in the butt dont worry about that ) ...The time of the terrible tribulations is more about them and their rebellion against GOD etc than anyone ..
I was reading on what the Jews believe again the other day and alot of their Rabbis and the secular Jews think they could figure out some other thing to use than live animals ..so I dont really know what they have planned...(it does not mean it is right and they are supposed to be be doing it because they are not ) ..............

And nowhere does the word say there will be any sacrifices ever again at least not in the Kingdom of God in the New Jerusalem .
What would be the need for it :?

And Fulfill means to END the OLD WAY and bring in the NEW WAY (JESUS) .. ..Read HEBREWS 8 please ..And Hebrews 10
YOU SAY YOU really want to know the truth and understand it ..Then PLEASE READ IT SLOW and let it SINK IN >>..dont read it to find fault with it ..Read it first then think about it for a bit then pick it to death if you want to ...If you really want to understand you will actually read it7 and try to let it sink in where you can COMPREHEND it .............

Hbr 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein];

Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

Hbr 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hbr 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hbr 10:15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Hbr 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Hbr 10:18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.

Hbr 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Hbr 10:21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God;

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


I remember reading a Book along this line of thought, simply. I believe it was called 'Von den Juden und ihren Lügen' (trans: 'On the Jews and their Lies'). An influential book indeed.

Apparently Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." And that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine," and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..."

It was one of Martin Luther's more hate filled read.

Hitler considered it an inspiration because he was a devout Christian.


[edit on 5/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Noob only the Jews who do not believe JESUS will once again do sacrifices ..And even they may not ...not with live animals anyway .Just because they will do it again does not mean that GOD wants them to ...

but thats exactly what god says he wants

or do you know better? pretty important thing to not write in the book huh?

They are doing it because they REJECTED that ONCE AND FOR ALL LIVING SACRIFICE of JESUS CHRIST ..............(it will bite them in the butt dont worry about that ) ...The time of the terrible tribulations is more about them and their rebellion against GOD etc than anyone ..
I was reading on what the Jews believe again the other day and alot of their Rabbis and the secular Jews think they could figure out some other thing to use than live animals ..so I dont really know what they have planned...(it does not mean it is right and they are supposed to be be doing it because they are not ) ..............

says you and not god and jesus .....

And nowhere does the word say there will be any sacrifices ever again at least not in the Kingdom of God in the New Jerusalem .
What would be the need for it :?

it doesnt say dont speed in your car or talk on your phone in libraries

what it does say is god says do your sacrifices for all eternity, the only offering that can be abolished by scripture is the sin offering the rest you should still be doing as its gods word and when he says forever he just might mean it dont ya think? unless you get into shaky ground using a fake

And Fulfill means to END the OLD WAY and bring in the NEW WAY

no becasue that would be changing it which jesus said he wasnt doing

...If you really want to understand you will actually read it7 and try to let it sink in where you can COMPREHEND it .............

rather then change its meaning to fit my mood? to fit what i dont wnat to do? what wouldnt be considered just by todays standards?

Since the letter of Clement of Rome to the Corinthians, written about A.D. 96, most probably cites Hebrews, the upper limit for the date of composition is reasonably certain. While the letter's references in the present tense to the Old Testament sacrificial worship do not necessarily show that temple worship was still going on, many older commentators and a growing number of recent ones favor the view that it was and that the author wrote before the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. In that case, the argument of the letter is more easily explained as directed toward Jewish Christians rather than those of Gentile origin, and the persecutions they have suffered in the past (cf Hebrews 10:32-34) may have been connected with the disturbances that preceded the expulsion of the Jews from Rome in A.D. 49 under the emperor Claudius. These were probably caused by disputes between Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah and those who did not

so it was a way for christains to distance them selves from jews, nothing to do with anyone that witnessed jesus ...... hmmm and we have no idea who wrote it ... could it be fake mayhaps? .. its referenced by clement of rome so if he is real and mentions it that proves it real doesnt it

what happens when we look up clements of rome

"Clement" (or, rather, the coterie of pseudonymous fraudsters) authored further nonsense throughout the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries, notably the Clementine Recognitions.



Clement:
Proof of the Resurrection – rebirth of the Phoenix! There are only two extant Greek texts of 1 Clement. The oldest is in Codex Alexandrinus, which dates to the 5th century.

"Let us understand, dearly beloved, how the Master continually showeth unto us the resurrection that shall be hereafter ...

Let us consider the marvellous sign which is seen in the regions of the east, that is, in the parts about Arabia.

There is a bird, which is named the phoenix. This, being the only one of its kind, liveth for five hundred years; and when it hath now reached the time of its dissolution that it should die, it maketh for itself a coffin of frankincense and myrrh and the other spices, into the which in the fulness of time it entereth, and so it dieth.

But, as the flesh rotteth, a certain worm is engendered, which is nurtured from the moisture of the dead creature and putteth forth wings. Then, when it is grown lusty, it taketh up that coffin where are the bones of its parent, and carrying them journeyeth from the country of Arabia even unto Egypt, to the place called the City of the Sun; and in the day time in the sight of all, flying to the altar of the Sun, it layeth them thereupon; and this done, it setteth forth to return. So the priests examine the registers of the times, and they find that it hath come when the five hundredth year is completed.

Do we then think it to be a great and marvellous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?"

– The Epistle of St Clement to the Corinthians

so clement is a multipul people making up fake religeous documents for 300 years ....... doesnt look good for hebrews validity does it




[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

Hey Wolf....

I personally have read way to much about the Jews online (Zionists) or whatever they are called .to know that there is some darkness for sure in them (same as our organized religions ) .. ..And the secular Jews are no doubt in my mind about on the same level as most athiests ..(they just dont care about God or anything)....
I pray for them and pray for the peace of Jerusalem as I do all peoples ..
I figure though that since most of them will endure some terrible situations when all countries come against theirs they will certainly get theirs ..so I do not wish bad on them at all ....like I dont you guys ...I really just want all of you and them to get to know the REAL LORD (not the one you have in your minds and not using the actions of the Church etc as the example but JESUS as the example of what it means to really know him ) ......There is HOPE IN CHRIST JESUS and there is for sure LOVE and PEACE that passeth all understanding to get us through this mess ...if we would just believe .....real simple.

I dont understand why believing is so difficult for so many people .
I mean look how easy it is for people to believe in other people (Like Obama) believing they can make a difference in our world ..and yet cannot even fathom putting faith in the LORD GOD the one who CREATED HEAVEN and EARTH and seriously has our best interest at heart ..MAN DOES NOT >.and yet alot of you put a whole lot of faith in them (Presidents and bosses and family members etc) .............



PS alot of the Jewish people will come to know the LORD ...according to scripture ...only after much troubles though ..
Which is sad that people wait till their life is all screwed up and need GOD to help them ..only then do they call on him ..I think that is sad ..(because I USED to be someone who did that too ) .................
God is there ALL OF THE TIME and I make sure I allow him to be a MAJOR part of my life ..when I am having a good time I think of him ..when I am sitting around doing nothing I am thinking of him ..when I am sad I cry to him ..when I am lonely I get closer to him ...I actually hate the feeling of what I used to feel like when I only called him when I needed him ..so I refuse to go there ever again ..I personally WANT him as THE MAIN one in my life from now on ...
My KING My Father,My Saviour,My GOD,my best friend ..MY ALL >>>.my life ..thats what GOD is to me .....................

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by noobfun


One thing that is clear to me, is that even when in full evidence of the fulfillment of the scriptures, that the people of the time were in full denial of what was before them.

Noob, you are more then welcome to believe that healing a blind man on the Sabbath is wrong, or you can side with Jesus and ask yourself if you were to fall into a well, would you too not wish to be rescued?

You are more then welcome to believe in the continuation of blood sacrifice by offering a few sheep, or you can understand the final blood sacrifice was made.

That Jesus Christ serves and is, the eternal mediator and gate for all of mankind to God. While he did not come to abolish all of the law, he did come warning us of its leavening.

Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

There were many laws made after the unveiling of the commandments, but not all were just. The story of Jesus healing the blindman on the Sabbath is but one such example.

Surely he that is the law, knows the law.

Peace



[edit on 5-12-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Noob where are you getting those sources from ? Are they Catholic ?
I need some links please ..I dont see any on your post .....

reply to post by Simplynoone


I think you and I both know why this is just silliness.

I dont understand why believing is so difficult for so many people .

The concept of faith without evidence is the reason, and it is not unreasonable.

I mean look how easy it is for people to believe in other people (Like Obama) believing they can make a difference in our world

Obama is a real man who is alive today (I don't like him personally).

..and yet cannot even fathom putting faith in the LORD GOD the one who CREATED HEAVEN and EARTH

There is no evidence to put behind such a statement and even if a God created the universe, which one of the thousands of Gods was it? There is not certainty that it's the God of the bible and you know that.

and seriously has our best interest at heart ..MAN DOES NOT >.and yet alot of you put a whole lot of faith in them (Presidents and bosses and family members etc) .............

We don't have much else to put our faith in, however I think most people on this site would agree with you. There have been good people in our history and there still are today, it's foolish to think that the good person doesn't exist.

[edit on 5/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf


Wolf ...you and everyone has faith in believing that SOMEDAY you will be loved.
Yet there is no qarantee that you will for sure is there (because some people end up single for most of their lives)? But you do have faith that you will..
Thats how really simple it is ..So no I dont think it is stupid to have FAITH ..
I have faith in alot of things ..That we wont all be on the streets because of a recession etc ..............

Your also putting all your FAITH into believing what MEN of Science tell you is the truth do you not ? Even though there are several Scientists who would disagree with those you put your faith in RIGHT >?


And the point is your placing your faith on a MAN who you KNOW will think about himself and our Government before he will YOU OR ME >.And he cannot control the whole world ...neither does he have any power over it ..LIKE THE CREATOR DOES >.............


See yall think we are stupid for believing ...
And really I think it is pretty stupid to not believe there isnt a creator ...
So it is all in our perception isnt it ...



[edit on 5-12-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
it's foolish to think that the good person doesn't exist.

Well, your words would be at odds with Jesus himself.

‘Jesus answered.’ “No one is good - except God alone.” (Luke 18:19)

We are merely called to be perfect like our father in Heaven, yet we are not perfect.

Jesus Christ Matt 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect

Peace



[edit on 5-12-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by Simplynoone

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Wolf ...you and everyone has faith in believing that SOMEDAY you will be loved.
Yet there is no qarantee that you will for sure is there (because some people end up single for most of their lives)? But you do have faith that you will..

I don't have faith that I will be loved someday, you are confusing faith and hope. I hope I will be loved some day but I refuse to bet on (put confidence in) such uncertainty.

Thats how really simple it is ..So no I dont think it is stupid to have FAITH ..

I didn't say stupid I said silly but I say that as long as you recognise that faith is belief without evidence then you're fine, if not then I pitty you.

I have faith in alot of things ..That we wont all be on the streets because of a recession etc ..............

Irrelevant.

Your also putting all your FAITH into believing what MEN of Science tell you is the truth do you not ? Even though there are several Scientists who would disagree with those you put your faith in RIGHT >?

I don't put faith in science because, as I said faith is belief without evidence. Science does not deal in faith, but empirical evidence. Add to that the scientific method ensuring that held notions based on evidence are updated every time new evidence is found. Logically it is the only sure way to truth.

And the point is your placing your faith on a MAN who you KNOW will think about himself and our Government before he will YOU OR ME >.And he cannot control the whole world ...neither does he have any power over it ..LIKE THE CREATOR DOES >.............

I'm not placing my faith in the man! Again you are confusing faith and hope, I hope these men will respect the roles that the public have given them, but I don't expect it to happen.

See yall think we are stupid for believing ...
And really I think it is pretty stupid to not believe there isnt a creator ...
So it is all in our perception isnt it ...

I don't think you are stupid for believe but not recognising the limits of your belief. Such arrogance is abhorent.


....................................
reply to post by HIFIGUY


I'm not much concerned with what Jesus said, or is reported to have said by people writing these books decades after the fact. I fon't have faith that he existed so, yeah.

[edit on 5/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I'm not much concerned with what Jesus said, or is reported to have said by people writing these books decades after the fact. I fon't have faith that he existed so, yeah.

Bold words for a man who lists on his title Isaiah 54:16.

The Silver Sword and the furnace. The man who blows into the furnace with a face of Bronze or Gold.

When I looked up Isaiah 54:16, I was reminded of a dream I had in August this last year, which is nearly the same as that verse.

A pleasant find, but a pause for thought.

Peace


[edit on 5-12-2008 by HIFIGUY]