the reason I fear the God of the bible: science

here's a book that was arguably started to be written some 4,000 years ago.

At its heart was the concept of a God that forbade (among other things):

1. fornication (perverse sex) & promiscuosity
   
2. eating of blood & strangled beasts that weren't thoroughly bled
   
3. incestual relationships
   

science later bears out that:

1. leads to STDs that could be life threatening
   
2. as an animal is killed it releases stress chemicals into its blood that are toxic and that the majority of pathogens are in it
   
3. leads to abnormalities
   

4,000 years ago...before man had any notions about pathogens, stress hormones, and genomes something or someone was making sure we don't screw ourselves too much...

I know, I'm a simple person but doesn't this just make you wonder?

The guy described in the bible as God is nothing more than a murdering psychopath.

I fear "IT" as all it wants is for us to "Bow Down and Be Loyal"!

If "IT" is so all forgiving why does Hell exist?

reply to post by moonrat


Thank you for participating in this thread with the maximum your intelligence allows. I'm sure those who share your IQ will star you in droves. Feel free to return and contribute something that is actually on topic if you are capable.

reply to post by reject


Scientific foreknowledge found within the Bible is a fascinating subject. Most examples can be found within the Torah while numerous other examples are found throughout The Writings. Medical, sanitary, scientific, etc. Several books have been written on the subject and it's probably my favorite area of apologetics to study, second only to prophecy.

[edit on 11/28/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by reject


have straw will grasp

the bible also says the messiah will be descended from the house of david on his farthers side(joseph allegedly was) but he isnt jesus daddy god is

the bible says the messiah will rebuild the third temple (he didnt)

the bible no where says there will be a second comming to do what he forgot the first time

jesus him self said when he comes back its the end of the world and time to go stab lots of pesky unbelievers with swords so no time to rebuild anything, he says ill come and we will kill thats it

the bible says the whole of genesis 1 which is a physical impossability its 80% in the entirely wrong order and the other 20% is so abstract you can get it to mean almost anything

STD's have always existed were just more aware of them we are also more able to treat most of them too

incestual relationships

this is absurd you do realsie the entirety of the old testament is based on it right up until god decides its now a bad thing 1/2 way through

hell even jesus is his own dad bieng god - thats super incest

DONT cherry pick th bits that suit your casue thats called intellectual dishonesty ...also know as bearing false witness and yes lying for jesus is still a sin

[edit on 28/11/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by reject


There is no need to fear God !
At least I don't fear my God as my God is not vengeful,jealous,punishing and self serving.
To bad about the scarry God that needs to be taught a lesson in behavior,morality and anger management.



[edit on 28-11-2008 by azureskys]

reply to post by moonrat
Through the ages, the bible or its message was corrupted and diluted. Jesus says so himself:

Matthew 19:7-8 They say unto him, Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorcement, and to put her away? (8) He saith unto them, Moses for your hardness of heart suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it hath not been so.

I am talking about its core concept: God. I won't attempt to say which are corrupted/diluted; who knows, if some future nightmarish genocidal tragedy may have been averted later by his doing away with certain people.

I'm not saying that's the case, though

reply to post by reject

if you want to do away with people who casue genocidal tradegy God is top of the list

he hates abortion but revels in killing babies

he says peace to all men the orders massacers in his name

hell even Hitler was his friend

We humans has always been able to understand and distinguish the dangers in nature that can be lethal to our physical well being.

You don't need a "God" per say to tell you that certain things are not good for the body.

One thing that we as humans has able to master quite well is how to tell others to live their lives with the creation of a all knowing God.

But in reality we have now many Gods that controls our lives, Modern Gods that rules us all.

They create laws, they tells us what to eat, what to purchase and how to live and behave, more than the old first God of the bible.

Originally posted by noobfun
the bible also says the messiah will be descended from the house of david on his farthers side(joseph allegedly was) but he isnt jesus daddy god is

Honest question: Where in the Messianic prophecies does it specifically say from the father's side? Also, don't forget Mary was also a descendant of King David.

the bible no where says there will be a second comming to do what he forgot the first time

No but the prophetic dualism and peak-to-peak nature of Messianic prophecy is extremely clear to Christians.

Anyways, I'm mostly interested in the passage that says a descendant of David on the father's side. According to Jewish customs of the time, Joseph (who was also a descendant of David) would have been sufficient to fulfill this prophecy as Jesus' step father but I'd still like to see that passage just out of curiosity.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by moonrat


I'm sure you'll find oodles of threads trashing religion directly as the actual topic. This thread happens to be about scientific foreknowledge. Feel free to troll elsewhere if you have nothing intelligent and on topic to add.

My IQ is pegged at 127.

Amateur.

Gen49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Isa11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Jer23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth

kingship is passed down the male lineage ^_^ its called extrapolation of information

favorite tool of apologetics, see why cherry picking is so harmful to your case?

No but the prophetic dualism and peak-to-peak nature of Messianic prophecy is extremely clear to Christians.

< - this is anotther example of making somthing from nothing

the bible doesnt say it, doesnt say anything like it but everyone knows its true

Joseph (who was also a descendant of David) would have been sufficient to fulfill this prophecy as Jesus' step father but I'd still like to see that passage just out of curiosity.

kind ship passed through step sons .... a novel idea


tell me Ash what happened to the peace god promised the jews? the never going bald? the never bieng infertile?

does that now only work if your christian?

[edit on 28/11/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by noobfun
kingship is passed down the male lineage ^_^ its called extrapolation of information

That explanation is extremely lacking in my honest opinion. Again, this would have no effect as Joseph, Jesus' step father, was also from the line of David. And again, according to Jewish customs, His step father would have been almost equal to the legal role of a biological father.

However, this still discredits nothing. Jesus was to come as a suffering servant the first time. Although He will most definitely reign as King during His future advent, the prophecies make it very clear He would be a suffering servant during His first advent. Not to mention, Jesus is also a spiritual King- with God (the King of Kings) as His spiritual Father. You cannot forget where Jesus' true, spiritual kingship comes from: Being the son of God.

this is anotther example of making somthing from nothing

Absolutely not. The dualism of the messianic prophecies is an extremely well known and supported case. But I am surprised you would say such a thing after reaching to the lengths you just did above.

the bible doesnt say it, doesnt say anything like it but everyone knows its true

Totally incorrect, my dear. It is expressly clear and very famous.

To respond to your edit:

tell me Ash what happened to the peace god promised the jews? the never going bald? the never bieng infertile?

It's still future. We're currently in 'the time of the gentiles' until it 'comes to a close.' Don't forget the prophecies mentioning unrest for a little while 'until the time of the gentiles' is fulfilled.' Also, don't forget blessings and judgment were prophesied throughout the ages. It was an either/or situation based on obedience or rebellion. Yes, the Jews are most definitely promised peace and restoration during the Messianic age (we all are). But for this age, Jesus prophesies war, rumors of war, pestilence, etc. We're in the church age currently but it looks like it is quickly coming to a close.

[edit on 11/28/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by noobfun
Gen49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Isa11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Jer23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth

kingship is passed down the male lineage ^_^ its called extrapolation of information

favorite tool of apologetics, see why cherry picking is so harmful to your case?

No but the prophetic dualism and peak-to-peak nature of Messianic prophecy is extremely clear to Christians.

< - this is anotther example of making somthing from nothing

the bible doesnt say it, doesnt say anything like it but everyone knows its true

Joseph (who was also a descendant of David) would have been sufficient to fulfill this prophecy as Jesus' step father but I'd still like to see that passage just out of curiosity.

kind ship passed through step sons .... a novel idea


tell me Ash what happened to the peace god promised the jews? the never going bald? the never bieng infertile?

does that now only work if your christian?

[edit on 28/11/08 by noobfun]

well, hello there, this is off topic and derails the thread but what the hey...even if its by a woman descendant, it doesnt say it's left Judah's feet now, does it?

even if its by a woman descendant, it doesnt say it isn't a rod out of the stem of Jesse now, does it?

even if its by a woman descendant, it doesnt say it isn't a righteous Branch unto David now, does it?

Quite contrary scripture shows heirs to the lineage are propagated by israelite women also

1 Chronicles 2:34-36 Now Sheshan had no sons, but daughters. And Sheshan had a servant, an Egyptian, whose name was Jarha. (35) Sheshan gave his daughter to Jarha his servant to wife; and she bare him Attai. (36) And Attai begat Nathan, and Nathan begat Zabad

even in later mishnah tradition "if the mother is a jew, the child is a jew"

So, you see, you're argument that Jesus had no right to the throne is dead in the water and holds none.


[edit on 28-11-2008 by reject]

So we can get away from prophecy and back onto scientific foreknowledge, here are a few links to throw into the ring. Although I don't agree with all of the information listed, it's still pretty fascinating if anyone wants to read up on the subject:

Some of the most famous examples:
www.creationists.org...

A great link although it doesn't go into any examples in depth. There is also a comment section on the bottom so you can read skeptical replies as well, for an even sided viewpoint:
godsbreath.wordpress.com...

Here's a pretty good article about the subject that goes more into depth on specific examples:
creationwiki.org...

Again, I don't agree with all of the information mentioned in the above links but it is a good start to understand what all this subject entails. I find the science behind sanitary laws the most fascinating.

Originally posted by reject
here's a book that was arguably started to be written some 4,000 years ago.

3,000 years ago, according to Biblical scholars.

At its heart was the concept of a God that forbade (among other things):

1. fornication (perverse sex) & promiscuosity
   
2. eating of blood & strangled beasts that weren't thoroughly bled
   
3. incestual relationships
   

As did countless other religions, incuding shamanistic (no gods, but spirits) and polytheistic. One of the first cultural practices that *every* group gets is "who can marry who" and "who can talk to /live with who" and "who is the father of all these kids." It varys wildly.

Food taboos of many kinds are also almost universal.

science later bears out that:

1. leads to STDs that could be life threatening
   
2. as an animal is killed it releases stress chemicals into its blood that are toxic and that the majority of pathogens are in it
   
3. leads to abnormalities
   

4,000 years ago...before man had any notions about pathogens, stress hormones, and genomes something or someone was making sure we don't screw ourselves too much...

Again, humans have always had these sorts of rules. For instance, in Rome you could only kill animals that were willing to be killed in the temple sacrifices. If an animal struggled or tried to run, it was set free.

There's stuff we still do because it works... handed down from ancient times to modern and updated. One example is aspirin, which is derived from the chemical compound in willow leaves, which were drunk for centuries to relieve headaches.

And yeah, the medical advice in the Bible is scary-bad. For instance, the one I noticed as a child was the leprosy cure which went like this: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times. Let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Kill a lamb. Put its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and put the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill two doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.

And in Numbers, the "cure snakebites by looking at an image of a brass snake on a pole."

...and on and on. For the curious, the site www.skepticsannotatedbible.com... has a full set of these with links to the verses so you can check them in a concordance -- www.blueletterbible.com... (in case you don't have a concordance.)

[edit on 28-11-2008 by Byrd]

Its a pitty that most of these bible thumpers who put their full faith in a book wont have the wisdom or the knowledge to understand the christ if he did come back. Shure they would listen... but even dogs listen. You have no reason to fear... because you wont understand what your missing. You have no reason to be sad beause you are loved even in your suffering. I care not what terrible actions youve taken or the regretable decisions youve made. You are a light that shows a path, the contrast needed for guidance. Everyone seems to think that hell is somewhere else. Hell is the absence of the presence of god. If it werent for all these people saying that god speaks through them commanding others to kill or be killed we might have assumed that this was our punishment long ago and maybe even learned somthing from it.

o and to comment on religiously avoided foods. The animals that are grown specificaly to be eaten should be avoided. Viruses have alot eaiser time when they have huge population of animals to mutate through before getting to people. Think of the slave animals like tools and the farmers dna is the safe. Every generation a virus gets is another chance at mutating into something "very effective" and when your right next to a human all day every day, you get alot of chances to guess the combination.

i just like to call these animals "beasts of burden"

[edit on 28-11-2008 by Wertdagf]

[edit on 28-11-2008 by Wertdagf]

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by reject
here's a book that was arguably started to be written some 4,000 years ago.

3,000 years ago, according to Biblical scholars.

At its heart was the concept of a God that forbade (among other things):

1. fornication (perverse sex) & promiscuosity
   
2. eating of blood & strangled beasts that weren't thoroughly bled
   
3. incestual relationships
   

As did countless other religions, incuding shamanistic (no gods, but spirits) and polytheistic. One of the first cultural practices that *every* group gets is "who can marry who" and "who can talk to /live with who" and "who is the father of all these kids." It varys wildly.

Food taboos of many kinds are also almost universal.

science later bears out that:

1. leads to STDs that could be life threatening
   
2. as an animal is killed it releases stress chemicals into its blood that are toxic and that the majority of pathogens are in it
   
3. leads to abnormalities
   

4,000 years ago...before man had any notions about pathogens, stress hormones, and genomes something or someone was making sure we don't screw ourselves too much...

Again, humans have always had these sorts of rules. For instance, in Rome you could only kill animals that were willing to be killed in the temple sacrifices. If an animal struggled or tried to run, it was set free.

The medical stuff in the Bible isn't very complete and is basically the kind of medicine they had everywhere in that region at that time. The one for leprosy is interesting but ineffective... I recall some other advice that wouldn't lead to any cures.

There's stuff we still do because it works... handed down from ancient times to modern and updated. One example is aspirin, which is derived from the chemical compound in willow leaves, which were drunk for centuries to relieve headaches.

Job is probably the oldest book in the Bible. The literary form of Job is similar to documents which go back to the first part of the 2nd millennium B.C..

then there's the 2 millenia AD; 2+2=4 last time I checked but whatever.

no, a lot of beliefs had (temple) prostitutes (male & female) and had you drinking/eating blood especially those of your enemies because they think it imbues you with power