Harper is bad, but Dion is even worse. He's the biggest piece of trash out there in canadian politics. He sold his soul long ago to the globalists.

You know that Dion would try to pass his carbon tax right? That would bankrupt even more our economy, you know that and increase pollution even more...and of course help the price of everything go up.

Dion is sold to Bilderberg, at least Harper looked a little more nationalistic when he went to the ``let's make a world bank`` meeting in washington a few weeks ago.

Dion is the worse choice ever. Ignatieff is sold to the globalists too. Harper sold his soul too, but it looks like he's working in some way against them, contrary to Dion, who's against guns and pro-carbon tax which is bad.

This whole situation is contrived. Stephen Harper has a masters degree in economics from the university of Calgary. I would be willing to bet money that he has known that the current "economic crisis" has been coming down the pipe for a long time, hence the reason he broke his promise about having fixed election dates, and called a snap election this past fall. He was hoping to get a larger majority in place before the public found out what was going on with the economy, and with that large majority the opposition parties could not form a coalition. Seems to me that he has made a serious miscalculation this time.

The conservative party has no economic strategy. The best they can come up with is selling off assets like the CN Tower or Harper going on tv telling Canadians that investors should look for buying opportunities during this crisis. How about encouraging us the other day to get out there and Christmas shop to help boost the economy? I had a flashback to the days after 9/11 when Harpers buddy George W. Bush encouraged Americans to "go on that vacation, book that flight".

When is Harper going to realize that many Canadians are wasting away in Povertyville, and for many, just feeding their families this Christmas is a major accomplishment? I am truly sickened by him.

interesting thread but thumbs down on the misleading title.

Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by intrepid

The Lib's need a new leader before they try anything. Trudeau? WAY too soon for this pup. Canadians will want to see what he's made of. They won't just vote on his legacy.

The problem is that no one else in the entire Liberal party has the reputation that Trudeau has. Everyone is is either a nobody or a never was, except Ignatieff who is just, well...let's him be for now. They seemed to have blown through all the credibility they had in the last 2 elections. While Trudeau may be young and unproven, he is the only chance they have to take back Quebec. Without him, they will never get a majority back. All roads lead through the Trudeau Legacy. As painful as it seems, the Canadian political landscape is devoid of life. We need something to spark us out of our apathy.

Well, Well,Well,

You must be joking. Do you really believe that people in Québec will heard about this and not laugh....

The Nationalist movement in Québec is about exactly the Trudeau legacy. The way he managed things leads to that we have now in this country.

Since Justin said E.T. should be granted the protection of the Charter of rights and liberty if they ever come to Canada, It leads many to believe that, if he inherited the charisma of his father, on the other side he seems to enjoy the brain of his mother.

Some comments on thread were about that Separatists shouldn't have the right to stand in the House.

Personnaly, I vote for whoever, I want.
It is my choice to vote for a poodle, if I want to.
And if I vote for the bloc it's my business, and I never voted, neither I will vote for those liberals who promise the whole world and deliver nothing. And if there were no bloc to vote for, I would be glad to vote for a poodle.

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.

If some think the Bloc should'nt in the house, I shouldn't force to pay federal taxes either.

Back on thread.

Now, I don't think this theatrical movement will lead to a change in the house, I think it is pretty for the money, and Harper will change is mind over the political party public funding and the hidden banking bailout will go ahead.

I think M. Ignatieff won't be happy to go for a coalition with the NDP, It would give a tremendous hedge to Bob Rae, as former NDP Premier.

But if it really happen, and the Tories are sent to other side of the room Then, M . Harper would be the sole responsible of is own misfortune.

Arguing that it will save 30 millions a year to stop funding political party, is a joke.

Specially when you decide to launch an election at the minimal cost of 300 millions, and have to countervein your OWN law on fixed date election day.

Ciao

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
First, paragraphs are your friend.
I don't think you've thought this through. There's nothing wrong with the parliamentary system, if anything, this is a demonstration of one of it's strengths; a party that makes poor decisions, that the majority of the house disagrees with, it doesn't stand. No one party can rule over all, passing laws and bills as they see fit without going through the proper checks and balances.

Whoa. That's quite a stretch. And your claim is highly arguable. This Conservative party has done so much more for this country than any of the existing parties could have ever hoped to accomplish if they had been in office for this past term. The majority isn't the "true" opinion. People in Democratic societies always struggle with that concept. You don't group up all the parties not in office and call them the "majority". That's so ignorant. The conscientious majority voted the Conservatives into government because that party was believed to be the best for the job. People are rational. They don't vote on a whim. They vote because they genuinely believe it will improve the quality of their lives. So it is logical to assume that the largest proportion of the votes going to such a party means that party is the best choice.

For the NDP and Liberals to usurp power now would be nothing less than a fascist pursuit. It is not representative of the rational majority.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
You make it sound like at any moment there could be an uprising by a random coalition of idiots in the house and we could have a government comprising of the Marxist party, Work-Less party and the Marijuana party; it doesn't work that way, it's not that easy.

The Conservatives barely formed a minority government and when you're a tiny minority, you have to do a damn good job to keep the majority happy or guess what? The majority, represented by the majority of voters in Canada, will take back the house, surprise!

Good job. You just described the mechanics of mob action. They do it because they can, and to be honest they shouldn't be allowed.

Things are already crashing in every direction here in BC. Tens of thousands of jobs in the forest industry were lost before the US even admitted there was a problem over there. You think the mines are doing okay with the prices on metals? We are hemorrhaging jobs at an alarming rate and we will continue to do so. Canada makes money by digging stuff out of the ground and selling it to the US - period.

We'll see a high-tech industry boom because credit lending is good, where that will be impossible anywhere else in the world. It would be sad if you were to be unemployed, but your employment will be relegated to new industries anyway, so the economy isn't missing much with you out of a job. Guess who else needs oil and timber? As SOON as natural resource exports to the U.S. drop, there will new buyers. It's not like the market just vanishes when the U.S. is no longer in business.

Besides. We running a surplus. We have enough money to put the whole country on welfare for a couple months. Spending will only slow down when people # themselves and start hiding their cash under their mattresses.

We have the fiscal policy measures in place to keep interest rates very low, where the rest of the world is struggling. That alone will keep our service industry up, which accounts for 70% of our jobs.

So if the economy is about jobs and not money, we shouldn't worry about losing logging and oil jobs, since those industries employ only 15% of the labor force.

The worst scenario is if half of that 15% becomes unemployed and unable to find work. The Great Depression was somewhere near 30% unemployment. Come on, 7% +/- 1 or 2% unemployment is nothing. Add that to our current 6% unemployment rate and we're little more unemployed than France or Germany.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by cognoscente]

I did mention that I can't believe that they would have tried to pass a bill that was so obviously slanted and would be defeated if it wasn't the overall plan, or perhaps orders, for him to fold his government. Obama got in, and he represents, to me, the Rothschild's and the Europena Union, and never before has a defeated bill not meant another election. There is some nefarious business going on here, such as a move that, despite Canada's good standing in an okay economy due to its resources (Norway also), might make this country join with Europe as I think the next move is, and this truly is nwo to me. Bush represented the nazi side of things, but this represents a consolidation of power in the Rothschild's hands to me.

Originally posted by cognoscente
Whoa. That's quite a stretch. And your claim is highly arguable. This Conservative party has done so much more for this country than any of the existing parties could have ever hoped to accomplish if they had been in office for this past term. The majority isn't the "true" opinion. People in Democratic societies always struggle with that concept. You don't group up all the parties not in office and call them the "majority". That's so ignorant. The conscientious majority voted the Conservatives into government because that party was believed to be the best for the job. People are rational. They don't vote on a whim. They vote because they genuinely believe it will improve the quality of their lives. So it is logical to assume that the largest proportion of the votes going to such a party means that party is the best choice.

For the NDP and Liberals to usurp power now would be nothing less than a fascist pursuit. It is not representative of the rational majority.

I'm going to ignore the rest of the post because I just got home from work, and your post is wrong on so many levels that I cannot even BEGIN to break it down without a smoke, so I'm not going to even bother...but as for your first paragraph, I ask you this: give me DETAILS of what exactly the Conservatives have done for our country since 2006 that makes them such a great party. Also, please note before you answer that I have already addressed the fact that their 2% GST reduction over the last few years is a complete sham and does not amount to anything, so could you please give me examples other than their 2% GST reduction.

As for your comment about how ignorant the view of the a group of democratically elected minorities combining to create a majority is; I think that is absurd. The bottom line here is you are trying to bend and manipulate the fact of the matter, so that the party you support stays in power.

I would understand your argument a lot more if random people came out of nowhere and took over the government, but these people were ALL democratically elected 6 weeks ago to their MP seats just like the Conservatives. Anything beyond that information is simply manipulation from the Conservatives and their attempts to keep control of the government.

This is democracy at it's greatest, for reasons already stated by other Posters; the majority of the elected representatives of the people are standing up for Canadians (finally) and holding the Conservatives accountable (remember that word? The Torys used it a lot to attack the Liberals a few years ago), and the true majority will work together, keeping each other in check and balance, to lead this country.

Our country is a nation of PEOPLE, not political parties; so I don't give a hoot about MP's political affiliations any more than I would care if an MP left their party while still in office and became an Independent. MP's are the representatives of the people, not their political party, and people forget that. Now you've been reminded. I say bring this coalition government on as long as they're all elected officials.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by matth]

I don't know, with Obama in, and the world so relieved by it, even Deepak Chopra has come out with opinions on Obama and a more peaceful world emerging, I can't see the atmosphere working for a conservative majority, though I admit, we do unusual things at times.

Sorry, but the interest of any party definitely changes to such a great extent during any coalition forming that the citizens, who elected those representatives are having their votes taken for granted. If there were a referendum for the formation of such a coalition, given to all citizens that voted for each of the parties intending to form said coalition, I seriously doubt it would pass. To clarify, if everyone that voted Liberal, NDP and Green this November (I'm assuming those three will form it) were given a referendum as to the formation of this super party, it would be denied.

Now for taxes. Was the Liberal alternative was any better? $1 billion dollars in personal income tax reductions over 5 years? That would be devastating for the government. Hmm... how ironic. Conservatives want to abolish the $1.95/vote system, yet the other parties somehow reject that notion as a Conservative scheme to undermine the other parties. No, those parties would rather bankrupt the government another way. I'll hand it to them, at least they aren't as apparently underhanded as the Conservatives were when they announced that plan.

But no, it appeals to the voters. The fact is no other party has a better idea. The fact is this GST reduction plan is so inconsequential as to the personal effects on individual Canadians. It's a sociopolitical issue. It's sad really. The only argument against it is that there are "better alternatives". Yeah, good luck doing that and keeping a budget surplus. Anything the Liberals could try would end up coming out of the public's pockets, in, guess what form? A increase in the GST.

If the Conservatives didn't even bother with this GST plan, people wouldn't be disgruntled with them. I love Canadian government. It's so boring that whenever someone makes a decent, somewhat risky proposal, everyone goes up in arms. Isn't it funny how the middle class never seems to care though, and how the Conservatives keep getting voted back in? It's called reason. In a Democratic society, we tend to hope it defeats passion every time. At that point, we know we are a mature nation.

If in fact any other party had been in power they would have come to the same conclusion, that they couldn't overextend their budget for other more "sensible" and "sociable" issues, as the NDP leader Jack Leyton has expressed like a driveling idiot for the last few years. The other parties are merely whining that the Conservatives took the GST approach. It did no harm to the country, except impose an opportunity cost on issues such as senior health care benefits, university tuition, and other social plans, which the other parties said they would have attended to first. Of course, they wouldn't be able to without bankrupting the country, like they have every single time they've come into office for the past decade. Come one, you must be familiar with liberal rhetoric by now. Everything they promise is some kind of ploy.

This is mob action. This is what Alexander Hamilton warned of during the initial meetings of Congress for the formation of the United States, which was the most discussed and critically attested government every to be conceived out of nothing. Alexander Hamilton argued for elections at set intervals as a means of insulating the government from the transient passions of the people, and thereby giving reason the advantage over passion in the accountability of the government to the people. Now we can usurp power whenever we feel like it. This coalition is a club of bullies, it's a passionate reaction to an overt threat of undermining their coffers by the current government. Now, that might not seem fair but it's definitely political transience. If the people agree with this, then we have failed as a Democracy. So what if they'll elected officials? The interest has changed, and so too has the disposition and significance of their constituent's votes. They wouldn't have been elected under a coalition in normal circumstances. They would have been singly defeated by the Conservatives. That is obvious and apparent as they have consistently managed to gain the largest proportion of the votes. The rational community, this unified population, has attested to their victory by granting them the largest proportion of their support, through vote. People are rational in unified large numbers. However, a bunch of small numbers combined merely to defeat the largest party in power is not a stance formed by reason, it's a reaction posed by passion.

The fact is the GST tax reduction plan is much better than anything that any of the existing parties can offer, especially under such a tight budget. They're disgruntled and complacent. They "promise" to the people that they can do a better job, but history has proved otherwise. It's a social issue, not an economic one. They appeal to their voters by displaying this plan as something that is "out of touch" with Canadians. They honestly couldn't dream of coming up with anything better.

Crime legislation is one thing that the Conservatives have been consistently better. The current government has definitely succeeded in pragmatism, where the contenders vie for power on the whims of a social agenda for the people. Liberals say the GST will only benefit the rich, or the higher consumers. They say it will hurt businesses. Fortunately for Canada, business isn't suffering. The opposition provides an extreme retaliation to any moderate measure provide by the government yet fails to deliver pragmatic "alternative" solutions. Well, I wonder who that appeals to? Low income individuals and families, as well as criminals, tend to more radical rationalizations regarding politics.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by cognoscente]

Can anyone tell me why the Liberals are so hell bent on US style stimulus package? What exactly would they stimulate? The auto industry? Perhaps it's time for them to realize that honda, toyota etc that have plants in Canada are doing quite well. If their plan is to invest our money into a failing business, ie GM, it will go down as one of dumbest decisions they will make.

Nobody in Canada want Dion, even the Liberals...

This will be a coalition government or new elections... which probably will give a majority for conservative... hopefully, otherwise if there's another non-majority vote, the political stability of Canada will be weakened... and our dollar will fall... not good at all. Or Harper could suspend the parlement until january... which is bad too.

The conservatives should withdraw their stupid law against financing of the parties and try to form a financial plan WITHOUT a bailout.

For the past 4 years I've worked directly with the conservative party in a fundraising office based out of thunder bay.

According to our client reps this is going to be a rough political time ahead in the next week... a big portion of our conservative prospects are contributing largely to the campaign in an effort to provide a financial backbone for media and effective office / grassroots campaigning against the newly formed coalition government...

So in the next week we can see 1 of 3 options happening..

1. Coalition Gov't would consist of the Bloc Quebecois, NDP, and the Liberals with Stephane Dion as the Prime Minister. This would be ongoing for a minimum 18 months.

2. Prime Minister Stephen Harper asks the Governor General Michelle Jean to prorogue goverment until the Budget is put to the floor.

3. The coalition of the NDP, Bloc & Liberals decide to defeat the government in non confidence and force another election.

So in a nutshell the truth is the Coalition would when combining the seats of 3 parties against 1 finally have enough to form a majority over harpers current government... if a general election was to be called, the majority of the votes would go towards harper by the sounds of the prospects on the phones, they are raged over the current tactics of the opposition parties in a clawing effort to bring down a government our country voted in favor of 8 weeks ago.

But really a coalition with 3 brains working against one would probably just go right ahead with option 1, avoiding defeat at the polls, time and wasted tax dollars...

Anyways off to the office for another 10.5 hours...